Emergency custody papers filed by mother of JI's son 11/14/11

[cityslick]

I don't think I could forgive him for a very long time, if ever, if it were truly his choice to drink, get drunk, be blacked out while in charge of my children, or anyone else's, and something happen to one of them.
Leave him? I believe I would have to. I don't think I could stand to be with someone that would put my child in harms way, and I'm not even talking just about Lisa missing on this. Do not take being left in charge of my children lightly. It's one of the most important things to do in life. They're little...they need complete supervision!
Throw him to the wolves in front of LE and media? The person making these choices is the one throwing themselves to the wolves. I believe DB did that herself when she made her choice. Surely she didn't think it through and think that we'd all feel so bad for her I mean after all she was just having adult time that she deserved. :waitasec:

Ugh! I'm just fed up with so many parents thinking that it's all about them. If you have kids, until they're grown it should never be about you. Heck, even after they're grown you're still the parent.

MOO

BBM

This is the key part though. What if there was no intent there? Yes, I understand, it was a horrible choice she made that night (if true) but what if things just happened, she got drunk and went to bed? I can understand if there was a history of it but what if that's not the case?

What if you've always known your husband to be loving and caring and never do a thing to harm/endanger your kids, just made a mistake one night, a mistake that he himself will live with for the rest of his life? You say that it, ok your choice and your entitled to that. But actions speak louder than words, once the anger dies down and your just left with trying to find your child, then what?

 

[menmo]

BBM

This is the key part though. What if there was no intent there? Yes, I understand, it was a horrible choice she made that night (if true) but what if things just happened, she got drunk and went to bed? I can understand if there was a history of it but what if that's not the case?

What if you've always known your husband to be loving and caring and never do a thing to harm/endanger your kids, just made a mistake one night, a mistake that he himself will live with for the rest of his life? You say that it, ok your choice and your entitled to that. But actions speak louder than words, once the anger dies down and your just left with trying to find your child, then what?

Here's my hang up. What if there was intent? In my opinion she was very negligent in Baby Lisa missing. It was a life changer for many people and I feel most sorry for Baby Lisa and her brothers. That wasn't just a horrible mistake, she consciously made that choice that she came first that night, and probably many more if the whole truth were known. That is offensive to me that people have children and do this, although I know it happens every day. A child came missing under her watch, with her being black out drunk. Holy crap I would like the other two boys out of her care, too, for just that alone. To me she needs some strong parenting classes and she needs them before being in charge of the two boys!

I am very strong in the belief that while my kids were growing up it was all about them. They were put first, middle and last. I was no prude and had "adult time", too. I left my children with someone trusted, someone that would do the right things by them like I would myself. There were times I would have loved to go out and let it rip but there was no one available I'd trust my kids to be left with so my choice was to not party that night.

A child can never be replaced. I had one child when I was 19 and the next at almost 22. It wasn't hard to be a mom, it was so natural. I never knew what true love was until I had a child. I believe I carry on how our mom treated and adored us kids and I'm thankful for that. I do believe DB most likely acts out her role as the mom in the house as her mom probably did.

MOO

 

[In da Middle]

Speaking of pictures of Lisa...if the family had asked people to use current photo's of Lisa (link), then why would they wear old photos on their own shirts? In fact, when they were photographed moving home the other day, nobody was wearing Missing Lisa shirt! :waitasec: Even, CA kept up that gig. :innocent: JMO

Yes she was wearing the t-shirt. Go look again. New posters with new pictures are up all over the place here - put up by family and friends.

 

[serveitup]

And who would that real Mother be that stood by JI's son for the last six years?

It was DB who spent the last six years of her life not the birth mother who took care of him. She has only seen him once when she ran into them out shopping or something. What does that tell you? The birth mother doesn't even know this child but more importantly he doesn't know her.

 

[serveitup]

DB's own words will hurt his case. And yes there've been times when I made mistakes as a solo parent but drinking to the point of blacking out and doing it more than once or regularly as DB herself stated is not excusable in my eyes. Am I judgemental? nope! but drinking that much while in charge of three minor children who needed tending and having one just disappear is not just a ooopsy mistake.

I absolutely agree she should not have done that. But that does not make her a murderer. I raised 5 kids as a single parent working 2 jobs. I'm sure I made mistakes, maybe some even in being over protective. My impression of DB is that she may not even know what "blacking out" means and she may have been too honest when she said "it's possible." But she certainly has been persecuted for those words. I can understand why her lawyers don't want her to speak. She may let people put words in her mouth.

I might add she wasn't "blacked out" because she told how she stopped by and asked the boys if they wanted to sleep with her. I doubt she understands that She would not have remembered that had she been blacked out.

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

Some people, like me, do put the well being and very life of their child above all others....including spouse, boyfriend, lover, etc. Odd concept to some, I realize. But, I think I'm not alone. For those who will "stand by their significent other" no matter what.....I have no words.

I hear ya loud and clear. Been married 27 years. I have "stood by my Man" through the good, the bad and the ugly. I can say with 100 percent certainty that My Man knows full well that if he were to have gotten blackout drunk while watching our children and one of them came up missing that the odds of me standing beside him while he refused to submit to interviews by LE would be ZERO.

 

[suzilight]

It was DB who spent the last sixoel years of her life not the birth mother who took care of him. She has only seen him once when she ran into them out shopping or something. What does that tell you? The birth mother doesn't even know this child but more importantly he doesn't know her.

She sounds like my ex-husband who would not even acknowledge his son when we ran into them while shopping. My son says to me, "Isn't that my dad? Why didn't he say hello to me?" I want to cry right now remembering that encounter.

DB has been that child's mother for the past few years and that is all he knows. I think it would traumatic for the child to be handed over to his bio mother. On top of losing his sister, I cannot imagine how he would feel. He would also be losing his "brother."

 

[highflyer]

It was DB who spent the last six years of her life not the birth mother who took care of him. She has only seen him once when she ran into them out shopping or something. What does that tell you? The birth mother doesn't even know this child but more importantly he doesn't know her.

When she was living with her husband? Not understanding how that is possible. Please explain your timeline because everything I've seen shows a totally different period of time. Here is one....

"Sgt. Sean Bradley’s service ended in March 2007. The couple returned to Independence and moved in with Debbie’s dad. But Sean couldn’t find a job and struggled in the civilian world, Hazel says. A 2008 news article says he was arrested for discharging a weapon; he told police he was suffering from war-related stress.

Bills were mounting. The tension was too much. Debbie and Sean separated."



Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/11/05/3250061/from-mother-hen-to-media-villain.html#ixzz1f8MW7Co4

 

[askfornina]

don't think this article had been posted

A hearing regarding a gag order in the custody battle over one of Lisa Irwin’s half-brothers has been delayed until Dec. 7.

Neither the boy's mother Rasleen Raim nor father Jeremy Irwin, who is also Baby Lisa's father, were in court for the 9 a.m. hearing Tuesday regarding the gag order in the court battle fover their son.

The attorney for Raim did not appear for the hearing. Irwin was represented by Kansas City attorney John Picerno.

http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/ne...custody-battle-over-Lisa-Irwin-s-half-brother

 

[In da Middle]

don't think this article had been posted



http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/ne...custody-battle-over-Lisa-Irwin-s-half-brother

Her nor her attorney even attended! Six years of not seeing him and still not showing up in court.:waitasec:Yeah, that screams emergency case here. Her own attorney didn't seem to think it was emergency enough to represent her side. How concerned can she be?I understand this is one of the hearings that the parents didn't need to be there, but her attorney didn't even go.

 

[Minette]

Ugh. This is a terrible thought, but I wonder if all the rumors about JI & DB getting big bucks from the media prompted this custody motion.

I seem to recall that in one of the previous paternity/custody court cases between RR & JI neither she nor her attorney (the same one) showed up for a least one of the court dates.

 

[Jacie Estes]

Her nor her attorney even attended! Six years of not seeing him and still not showing up in court.:waitasec:Yeah, that screams emergency case here. Her own attorney didn't seem to think it was emergency enough to represent her side. How concerned can she be?I understand this is one of the hearings that the parents didn't need to be there, but her attorney didn't even go.

Apparently this was 'all flash and no cash'. :dramaqueen:




Frozen Margharita?

:needdrink:

 

[yllek]

Apparently this was 'all flash and no cash'. :dramaqueen:




Frozen Margharita?

:needdrink:

I don't understand how a delay in a gag order proceeding says anything about the emergency nature of the custody hearing. Nor, do I understand how this delay is being equated to a lack of concern about the boy (by either parent). This was an administrative hearing; not about custody. I would have been surprised if either parent had showed up. I saw nothing in the link that indicated Ms. Raim's attorney was scheduled to be present today. If so and she failed to show, it's a mark against her. But, unless I missed something, we don't know who was supposed to be there and why it was delayed.

As long as it happens before the custody hearing on 12/7, the ducks will be in a row as to whether anyone involved is allowed to release details of the proceedings to the public. I imagine Lisa's parents and her attorneys are pushing hard for a gag order. Perhaps Ms. Raim and her attorney agree and nothing was to be contested.

JMO...

 

[Jacie Estes]

I don't understand how a delay in a gag order proceeding says anything about the emergency nature of the custody hearing. Nor, do I understand how this delay is being equated to a lack of concern about the boy (by either parent). This was an administrative hearing; not about cutody. I would have been surprised if either parent had showed up. I saw nothing in the link that indicated Ms. Raim's attorney was scheduled to be present today. If so and she failed to show, it's a mark against her. But, unless I missed something, we don't know who was supposed to be there and why it was delayed.

As long as it happens before the custody hearing on 12/7, the ducks will be in a row as to whether anyone involved is allowed to release details of the proceedings to the public. I imagine Lisa's parents and her attorneys are pushing hard for a gag order. Perhaps Ms. Raim and her attorney agree and nothing was to be contested.

JMO...

IF RR were so concerned and the son was in so much danger, he could have been removed immediately. That didn't happen, he still is at the house.

Perhaps the use of the word emergency was unnecessary.

 

[yllek]

IF RR were so concerned and the son was in so much danger, he could have been removed immediately. That didn't happen, he still is at the house.

Perhaps the use of the word emergency was unnecessary.

Okay. That's different than equating lack of presence at an adminstrative proceeding with not showing up and therefore not being urgently concerned about custody issues, especially since we don't know if anyone other than Mr. Picerno was scheduled to be in court today.

Today's gag order hearing delay says nothing about the level or urgency of concern by either parent in regards to custody. I won't dock Mr. Irwin or Ms. Raim for not being present today. JMO..

 

[In da Middle]

Okay. That's different than equating lack of presence at an adminstrative proceeding with not showing up and therefore not being urgently concerned about custody issues, especially since we don't know if anyone other than Mr. Picerno was scheduled to be in court today.

Today's gag order hearing delay says nothing about the level or urgency of concern by either parent. I won't dock Mr. Irwin or Ms. Raim for not being present today. JMO..

I would think that even a gag order hearing would be important for both sides to be present for to let the judge know of their feelings regarding a gag order.

 

[RANCH]

I would think that even a gag order hearing would be important for both sides to be present for to let the judge know of their feelings regarding a gag order.

I agree. How can a judge rule on a gag order without knowing if Ms Raim is for or against it?

 

[yllek]

I would think that even a gag order hearing would be important for both sides to be present for to let the judge know of their feelings regarding a gag order.

Right, but we don't know who was supposed to be there. If this was Mr. Picerno petitioning for certain gag order stipulations, there are several possible reasons why Ms. Raim's attorney wasn't present: she was not invited, not aware, didn't contest, signed appropriate legal documents of agreement in advance, agreed to participate on same day's notice by phone - these are just a few examples... Many possibilities.

Very big leap for folks to be drawing the conclusion that because her attorney wasn't present at an administrative hearing that the mother of the child doesn't consider the custody matter urgent and isn't truly concerned about the child.

Btw: I wouldn't be surprised if the press filed a petition against a gag order.
The judge may have more than the parents' requests to consider legally before making a ruling. Since the gag order hearing was pushed to the same day as the emergency custody hearing, the judge may want to get an idea of what is going to be revealed in court before making his/her decision.

 

[Jacie Estes]

Okay. That's different than equating lack of presence at an adminstrative proceeding with not showing up and therefore not being urgently concerned about custody issues, especially since we don't know if anyone other than Mr. Picerno was scheduled to be in court today.

Today's gag order hearing delay says nothing about the level or urgency of concern by either parent in regards to custody. I won't dock Mr. Irwin or Ms. Raim for not being present today. JMO..

Disrespect to the court is not taken lightly. Mr Irwin's attorney was there; Ms. R's attorney didn't show up. That is disrespect to the court. Someone else/another case could have used that time; it may have been taken by someone who had an issue, not someone looking for 15. When a court summons you, even for an administartive hearing, you go. it's not rocket science. Neither RR or her attorney showed.

 

[RANCH]

Right, but we don't know who was supposed to be there. If this was Mr. Picerno petitioning for certain gag order stipulations, there are several possible reasons why Ms. Raim's attorney wasn't present: she was not invited, not aware, didn't contest, signed appropriate legal documents of agreement in advance, agreed to participate on same day's notice by phone - these are just a few examples... Many possibilities.

Very big leap for folks to be drawing the conclusion that because her attorney wasn't present at an administrative hearing that the mother of the child doesn't consider the custody matter urgent and isn't truly concerned about the child.

Btw: I wouldn't be surprised if the press filed a petition against a gag order.
The judge may have more than the parents' requests to consider legally before making a ruling. Since the gag order hearing was pushed to the same day as the emergency custody hearing, the judge may want to get an idea of what is going to be revealed in court before making his/her decision.

Looks like a case of poor reporting again if you ask me. All the points you make could be true, but the press failed once again to give us any meaningful information.