Emergency custody papers filed by mother of JI's son 11/14/11

[Jacie Estes]

Not all emergencies require the use of 911 and an ambulance. Elevated temps that spike, vomiting, insect bites etc. I can think of many things that do require an emergency room visit but do not require 911 or an ambulance. In any case I would not want a parent that is in a possible black out state of orientation to be making medical decisions for any child.

The only reason a child would be taken to an ER with a fever is because of convulsions and then 911 has to be called so EMTs can treat the convulsion.

Good Reasons to Go to an Emergency Room:

Loss of consciousness.

Signs of heart attack that last two minutes or more. These include: pressure, fullness, squeezing or pain in the center of the chest; tightness, burning, or aching under the breastbone; chest pain with lightheadedness.

Signs of a stroke, including: sudden weakness or numbness of the face, arm or leg on one side of the body; sudden dimness or loss of vision, particularly in one eye; loss of speech, or trouble talking or understanding speech; sudden, severe headaches with no known cause; unexplained dizziness, unsteadiness or sudden falls, especially when accompanied by any other stroke symptoms.

Severe shortness of breath.

Bleeding that does not stop after 10 minutes of direct pressure.

Sudden, severe pain.

Poisoning (Note: If possible, call your local poison control center first and ask for immediate home treatment advice-certain poisons should be vomited as soon as possible while others should be diluted with water as soon as possible. Such preliminary home treatment could save your life.)

A severe or worsening reaction to an insect bite or sting, or to a medication, especially if breathing is difficult.

A major injury, such as a head trauma.

Unexplained stupor, drowsiness or disorientation.

Coughing up or vomiting blood.

Severe or persistent vomiting.

Suicidal or homicidal feelings.

Bad Reasons to Go to an Emergency Room:
Earache.

Minor cuts where bleeding is controlled.

A minor dog or animal bite where bleeding is controlled (but see your doctor–a rabies shot may be necessary).

A broken bone (call your doctor to see if he/she can treat you the same day, if not– or if bone is showing, limb is deformed–go to the ER).

A sprain.

A sunburn or minor burn from cooking.

An insect sting or delayed swelling from a sting (if there is breathing difficulty, go to the ER).

A skin rash.

Fever (if there is a convulsion, go to the ER).

Sexually-transmitted diseases.

Colds and cough, sore throat, flu.

http://www.editorsweb.org/wellness/emergency-room.htm

 

[serveitup]

If I had one teacup of wine I would certainly sleep and if I blacked out I wouldn't know it because I'd be asleep. I think DB was just being honest and may be kind of ignorant (no punt intended). If she remembers stopping and asking the boys if they wanted to sleep with her she was not "blacked out." I have seen drunk and I have seen "blacked out drunk." I lived with an alcoholic 14 years who had "blackouts." Trust me there is a big difference.

 

[Jacie Estes]

There is a profound difference in sleeping and being in a blackout state of which DB has admitted is a possibility and therefore, is unable to answer questions with any clarity on what she might have seen or heard to LE that are looking for her missing baby.

IF DB were blackout drunk/drunk that night LE would have called CPS on the spot and the boys would have been removed or an investigation would have been started?

 

[curvecuti]

The only reason a child would be taken to an ER with a fever is because of convulsions and then 911 has to be called so EMTs can treat the convulsion.

Good Reasons to Go to an Emergency Room:

Loss of consciousness.

Signs of heart attack that last two minutes or more. These include: pressure, fullness, squeezing or pain in the center of the chest; tightness, burning, or aching under the breastbone; chest pain with lightheadedness.

Signs of a stroke, including: sudden weakness or numbness of the face, arm or leg on one side of the body; sudden dimness or loss of vision, particularly in one eye; loss of speech, or trouble talking or understanding speech; sudden, severe headaches with no known cause; unexplained dizziness, unsteadiness or sudden falls, especially when accompanied by any other stroke symptoms.

Severe shortness of breath.

Bleeding that does not stop after 10 minutes of direct pressure.

Sudden, severe pain.

Poisoning (Note: If possible, call your local poison control center first and ask for immediate home treatment advice-certain poisons should be vomited as soon as possible while others should be diluted with water as soon as possible. Such preliminary home treatment could save your life.)

A severe or worsening reaction to an insect bite or sting, or to a medication, especially if breathing is difficult.

A major injury, such as a head trauma.

Unexplained stupor, drowsiness or disorientation.

Coughing up or vomiting blood.

Severe or persistent vomiting.

Suicidal or homicidal feelings.

Bad Reasons to Go to an Emergency Room:
Earache.

Minor cuts where bleeding is controlled.

A minor dog or animal bite where bleeding is controlled (but see your doctor–a rabies shot may be necessary).

A broken bone (call your doctor to see if he/she can treat you the same day, if not– or if bone is showing, limb is deformed–go to the ER).

A sprain.

A sunburn or minor burn from cooking.

An insect sting or delayed swelling from a sting (if there is breathing difficulty, go to the ER).

A skin rash.

Fever (if there is a convulsion, go to the ER).

Sexually-transmitted diseases.

Colds and cough, sore throat, flu.

http://www.editorsweb.org/wellness/emergency-room.htm

BBM. When my child was about 18 months she had a fever of 104. I called her Pediatrician (after hours) who instructed me to take her to the ER immediately. There were no convulsions, and no EMTs were involved. My nephew broke his arm when he was 7 on a trampoline, the Dr. sent him to the ER also. That's a poor list, imo.

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

The only reason a child would be taken to an ER with a fever is because of convulsions and then 911 has to be called so EMTs can treat the convulsion.

Good Reasons to Go to an Emergency Room:

Loss of consciousness.

Signs of heart attack that last two minutes or more. These include: pressure, fullness, squeezing or pain in the center of the chest; tightness, burning, or aching under the breastbone; chest pain with lightheadedness.

Signs of a stroke, including: sudden weakness or numbness of the face, arm or leg on one side of the body; sudden dimness or loss of vision, particularly in one eye; loss of speech, or trouble talking or understanding speech; sudden, severe headaches with no known cause; unexplained dizziness, unsteadiness or sudden falls, especially when accompanied by any other stroke symptoms.

Severe shortness of breath.

Bleeding that does not stop after 10 minutes of direct pressure.

Sudden, severe pain.

Poisoning (Note: If possible, call your local poison control center first and ask for immediate home treatment advice-certain poisons should be vomited as soon as possible while others should be diluted with water as soon as possible. Such preliminary home treatment could save your life.)

A severe or worsening reaction to an insect bite or sting, or to a medication, especially if breathing is difficult.

A major injury, such as a head trauma.

Unexplained stupor, drowsiness or disorientation.

Coughing up or vomiting blood.

Severe or persistent vomiting.

Suicidal or homicidal feelings.

Bad Reasons to Go to an Emergency Room:
Earache.

Minor cuts where bleeding is controlled.

A minor dog or animal bite where bleeding is controlled (but see your doctor–a rabies shot may be necessary).

A broken bone (call your doctor to see if he/she can treat you the same day, if not– or if bone is showing, limb is deformed–go to the ER).

A sprain.

A sunburn or minor burn from cooking.

An insect sting or delayed swelling from a sting (if there is breathing difficulty, go to the ER).

A skin rash.

Fever (if there is a convulsion, go to the ER).

Sexually-transmitted diseases.

Colds and cough, sore throat, flu.

http://www.editorsweb.org/wellness/emergency-room.htm

I am a nurse and have been for 25 years. You are more than welcome to use that list as your guide on when to not visit an emergency room but I can assure you, it would not be a list that I would recommend to family, friends or even strangers.

 

[Jacie Estes]

BBM. When my child was about 18 months she had a fever of 104. I called her Pediatrician (after hours) who instructed me to take her to the ER immediately. There were no convulsions, and no EMTs were involved. My nephew broke his arm when he was 7 on a trampoline, the Dr. sent him to the ER also. That's a poor list, imo.

Driving and tending to a sick child is better than calling 911 to care for a sick child? Driving like that is distracted driving, like texting and driving. While driving, the driver is not caring for the sick child and is not fully paying attention to the road. That's how accidents happen. IMHO

 

[tehcloser]

Driving and tending to a sick child is better than calling 911 to care for a sick child? Driving like that is distracted driving, like texting and driving. While driving, the driver is not caring for the sick child and is not fully paying attention to the road. That's how accidents happen. IMHO

:waitasec:

 

[Amster]

Really?? What is it about DB that would cause one to twist and turn like a pretzel to say it is just wonderful that she was drunk, passed out or not, while caring for young kids? No wonder there is so much child abuse, child murders and just plain child neglect in this world. So depressing....and scary.

 

[curvecuti]

Driving and tending to a sick child is better than calling 911 to care for a sick child? Driving like that is distracted driving, like texting and driving. While driving, the driver is not caring for the sick child and is not fully paying attention to the road. That's how accidents happen. IMHO

She was in her carseat in the back of the car. She was lethargic with a fever that high. I haven't seen many accidents caused by driving to the ER. moo.

 

[tehcloser]

I can say that having raised 6 kids, all whom were involved in sports, and having 12 grand kids , we have seen our share of emergency rooms. No accidents on the way were ever involved.

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

I can say that having raised 6 kids, all whom were involved in sports, and having 12 grand kids , we have seen our share of emergency rooms. No accidents on the way were ever involved.

 

[Abby Normal]

DB calls them "My Boys." Check any early October 5th through October 8th Videos. She also refers to them as "our boys."

Which I'd personally expect. Not everyone is overly concerned about labels/forms. My marriage has nothing to do with the paper, that's how we get benefits, etc. Our relationship is bigger than that. If I lived with a man and we shared a child, I would assume we would say brothers. Jmo.

But then I have half brothers and foster brothers, and I don't qualify them. They are all just my brothers, and I adore them as much if we had all shared parents.

 

[whodidit]

Did you not hear what I was saying about the biological mother having a chance with her son while he is living in this "nightmare" around his home?

I have two boys and for the life of me I would not in any circumstance have them not be able to go out and play etc. I would look for other family members to care for them until this event was over. Do you not agree?

I do not agree. If one of my children was kidnapped/missing, I would have a very hard time letting the other ones out of my sight for even a second. I would NOT go send them to live with other family indefinitely. No way. I would let them play outside, but only with me out there watching them.

 

[Minette]

I just want to say in the defense of this bio mom. . .I think you all need to go back and read the court dockets.

It's a pretty good outline of what happened.

There's an administrative order filed in 2008 which gets denied.

Two months later is the hearing where RR didn't appear. . .but neither did her attorney! What does that tell us? Attorneys show up for court hearings unless there is a scheduling snafu.

A week later RR files for temporary custody through her attorney. (I take that to mean that JI had physically custody at that time. What does that mean? Maybe he kicked her out. Maybe she left.)

A few days later JI is served with the summons to appear and both JI and RR are sent a parenting plan, booklet and pamphlet.

Another hearing is missed by RR AND her attorney.

Shortlly after that an answer to the motion for temporary custody is filed by JI's attorney.

Several months later we have "Parent Education Not Excused" with regards to both JI and RR. I take that to mean that they were both ordered to take parent education classes, but hadn't yet.

A month late we have the same "Parent Education Not Excused"

Three months later we have a motion to dismiss by JI's attorney for "failure to prosecute." My question is failure to prosecute what??? I have my suspicions. All MOO but my brother is a family court prosecutor and tries mostly DV cases. . .and nothing pisses him off more than "failure to prosecute."

Three months later we have a hearing, which btw JI didn't show up to either, only the attorneys present, where the motion to dismiss was sustained. Idk what the story is but the court didn't grant the temporary custody to RR because of the "failure to prosecute" filing.

A month later the motion is sustained "without prejudice."

Sooooo. . .it doesn't sound like RR didn't want her son and just didn't care or show up. I don't know what the ins and outs of the story is, but there are things that can be inferred from the court dockets. . . none of which support some of the things that have been thrown around here.

MOO

I am not a lawyer BUT from my reading 'failure to prosecute' in this case simply means that RR was the plaintiff and failed to show up (twice) to make her case for amendment of custody. That puts a very different spin on things if that's in fact the way it was. I wish some of our resident attorneys would show up and explain the court filings & orders a bit, because the next thing is that there will be rumors running rampant that JI is a domestic abuser, and as far as I can tell there is NO evidence of that!

MOO (I always feel like such a cow when I saw that!)

 

[nursebeeme]

In other baby Lisa developments, the mother of her older brother has filed for custody of the 8-year-old
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com 9:25 AM


Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1dn791a2s


thread topic ^^

 

[scmom]

How is the move home going to affect the custody case? I can see that it may be better for the two boys to be in a familiar place, but what about when JI is working? Since DB has no legal familial connection to the older boy, and because of the circumstances surrounding BL's disappearance, I can't see that this will help JI retain custody of his son.

 

[whodidit]

I would like to point out that RR does NOT live in Kansas City. She lives in Marshall MO, according to the FOX interview. This is about 90 miles/1.5 hours away from the home at 3620 N Lister Ave (http://mapq.st/tTlYK3) - that means another school district in the middle of the year. I think most judges would be very hesitant to do that unless there is very convincing evidence of abuse/neglect.

 

[AlmostGone]

Driving and tending to a sick child is better than calling 911 to care for a sick child? Driving like that is distracted driving, like texting and driving. While driving, the driver is not caring for the sick child and is not fully paying attention to the road. That's how accidents happen. IMHO

One time my daughter was sick and I suspected she was having difficulty breathing.. The hospital was five minutes away and it was during heavy traffic.. I and my ex husband made the choice to drive her myself thinking between a 911 call and waiting for them I'd get her there quicker..I feel I made the right choice for our situation..this is just my opinion and please don't think I'm attacking your post :0) I think it's situational

 

[hambirg]

I am not a lawyer BUT from my reading 'failure to prosecute' in this case simply means that RR was the plaintiff and failed to show up (twice) to make her case for amendment of custody. That puts a very different spin on things if that's in fact the way it was. I wish some of our resident attorneys would show up and explain the court filings & orders a bit, because the next thing is that there will be rumors running rampant that JI is a domestic abuser, and as far as I can tell there is NO evidence of that!

MOO (I always feel like such a cow when I saw that!)

Doh! :doh:

I suspect you're correct. But I still think it's worth noting that RR did hire a lawyer and file for temporary custody, much to the stories suggesting otherwise.

I don't see how a mother worrying about the welfare of her son and wanting to see him is a bad thing. I'll leave that up to the courts to decide what is in his best interest.

 

[Sherbie]

I can't really take a position on DB's being neglectful due to a possible drunken blackout since I'd first have to accept as truth that she was drunk enough for that to occur. All we have is her claim that it was a possibility, and I don't know whether that is truthful or whether it's being used as a cover.

I do wonder, though, how folks would feel if the substance involved were not alcohol. What if she got wasted, completely stoned on illegal drugs? Because alcohol is legal doesn't mean it leaves you any more competent to care for children than illegal substances.

The "if we claimed neglect for every parent who gets drunk" argument bothers me for several reasons. DFC type agencies can't police every home 24/7 to detect neglect. It's like the old philosophical conundrum, "If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?" Does neglect exist even if no one witnesses it or reports it and no harm comes to a child as a result?

Sure it does, but DFC (and we) only know of it when it's reported or when something happens to a child during an episode of neglect. The fact that others might do the same or worse without consequence isn't a valid excuse for putting ourselves in a position of being unable to properly supervise and care for our kids or for DFC to give a pass on it when brought to their attention.

That said, Lisa appears to have been well cared for, clean, healthy and happy. So I don't think there's an overall pattern of neglect going on. But if mom drank herself into a stupor without another adult there to provide backup, I'd consider that irresponsible at best and probably a technical instance of neglect.

Should a parent who is incapacitated (by choice, and that's another difference vs. being sick or a heavy sleeper) and whose child is harmed on her watch have her children taken by DFC? Well, was it a single, isolated, irresponsible instance? Is she otherwise loving and attentive to the children's needs? Is she suffering from alcoholism? If so, is she willing to go into treatment? How often will she be left in sole charge of the children? Is it likely she'll drink to that level of excess again and leave children, in effect, unattended? Those are questions I'd want investigated and addressed if any children are to remain in her care.

Of course, all that is based on accepting that she actually drank to the point of possibly blacking out. I have serious doubts about that claim.