Emotions regarding case...

[Ocean Lover]

I started reading everything I could on this case when it first happened and have watched NG since the Natalee H. case. I was directed to this site by my sister and read a lot before joining. Everyone here is so smart I learn new information on here all the time. The moderators are so polite and keep things running smooth here.
I think I'm so addicted to this case because it seems that no one in this family seems to care about this sweet baby girl! I can't understand why they won't help in anyway they can/could to find this precious baby. They can look for an alive Caylee while helping TES search too. I don't know what it may be like to lose a grandchild and I hope I never have to find out. I am a mother and I'm also a grandmother to a beautiful little girl a little younger than Caylee and I would do anything to find that child if she was missing. I find myself thinking about Caylee everyday and praying that TES brings her home. We were at a family members house and my granddaughter was playing with some older kids in our family outside and for a minute or so we didn't know where she was and panicked. We almost lost it and she wasn't even really missing. This baby was missing for 31 days and had no one looking for her. I think it's sad when the public seems to have more love for this little baby than the family seems to show for her. Part of me doesn't think the family deserves a place to go to mourn the loss of this baby but then I try to keep telling myself that they are just in denial and will some day come to grips with the truth and will need to be able to visit this baby when she does come home. Sorry this is so long but this case just breaks my heart.
O/T we had a mother in Iowa last weekend that killed her 2 year old and tried to kill her older child and herself by slitting their throats. The older boy told LE that she is the one that did this or she probably would have gotten away with it. She is alive and so is the older boy.

 

[LiveLoveLaughLiza]

Well gosh, I guess my heart is made of stone too then cause all I could think of was, where is the true unfeigned compassion for your helpless grandchild who lies abandoned Lord knows where to never be even so much as properly memorialized? And where is the true unfeigned concern for your emotionally disturbed daughter in desperate need of counsel and your grace and permission to acknowledge the truth? I am not heartless but I am not easily swayed in the absence of evidence to support claims by someone who vowed, "I will search to the ends of the earth, I will knock on every door..." yet won't even cooperate w/ LE or support TES. LOVE is more than a photo op, or a soft gushy emotion, LOVE is a DOING word, and LOVE "rejoices in the truth." So as harsh as it may sound, we love in DEEDS by our actions, not just in words. JMO
:blowkiss:

Goodness, you did it again! I don't think either of us have hearts of stone.......we both know it is all about Caylee. Since her family can't and wont do it, we (WSers~LE~TES~TM~LP) will fight for justice for this precious baby, our Caylee.:blowkiss:

 

[essies]

:blowkiss::clap::clap:

Well gosh, I guess my heart is made of stone too then cause all I could think of was, where is the true unfeigned compassion for your helpless grandchild who lies abandoned Lord knows where to never be even so much as properly memorialized? And where is the true unfeigned concern for your emotionally disturbed daughter in desperate need of counsel and your grace and permission to acknowledge the truth? I am not heartless but I am not easily swayed in the absence of evidence to support claims by someone who vowed, "I will search to the ends of the earth, I will knock on every door..." yet won't even cooperate w/ LE or support TES. LOVE is more than a photo op, or a soft gushy emotion, LOVE is a DOING word, and LOVE "rejoices in the truth." So as harsh as it may sound, we love in DEEDS by our actions, not just in words. JMO
:blowkiss:

perfect post!!

 

[Monkey's mom]

My bf lives in Florida and he got me interested in the case. I couldnt believe she was smirking/smiling in court that first time when she was not saying anything about where her daughter was.... Then I saw the pictures of Caylee, I was hooked then. Im new to this Websleuths thing as well, once again my bf found it joined and got me to join Ive been pretty much hooked on it as well LoL Im on the west coast so anything I want to say or comment usually has been quite a few times over. This case has been frustrating, so very sad and just emotional overall! I think parents may feel a little something extra..... As far as LP goes, living in Sacto I was able to do a bit of research on him and I believe between he and Tim if Caylee's out there, they will find her. Two great hearts that have two great minds. Just my thoughts

 

[icherish]

WOW, I hadn't seen that, it made me cry...:frown:

Me too... heart-wrenching.

 

[Celt1997]

Goodness, you did it again! I don't think either of us have hearts of stone.......we both know it is all about Caylee. Since her family can't and wont do it, we (WSers~LE~TES~TM~LP) will fight for justice for this precious baby, our Caylee.:blowkiss:

I agree that you don't have hearts of stone. I also don't believe that the people who shed a tear over that video are CA supporters.

Personally, the times that I have felt emotional over this case have been the times when I am projecting myself into the situations. I did feel a twinge of sadness when watching that video, but it wasn't for CA, it was because I was imagining myself in the situation, how sad I feel for Caylee, and how I would be feeling at that moment.

There's just so much hopelessness in this case, at times, that it's hard not to feel sadness.

 

[kiki the parrot]

Me too... heart-wrenching.

Yes, agreed. Especially when we are willing to look beneath the surface to understand the underlying values, priorities and attitudes which brought us here today and ultimately cost an innocent child her life, it certainly is heartwrenching. JMHO

 

[icherish]

Yes, agreed. Especially when we are willing to look beneath the surface to understand the underlying values, priorities and attitudes which brought us here today and ultimately cost an innocent child her life, it certainly is heartwrenching. JMHO

Kiki, while I do not support Cindy's irrational and often self-defeating behavior, I empathize with the pain of her loss.

What brought us here today are the unconscionable acts of Casey Anthony. Period. HER values, attitudes and priorities are what cost this child her life, not to mention the devastation of many others. MOO

 

[DollyPardonMe]

Kiki, while I do not support Cindy's irrational and often self-defeating behavior, I empathize with the pain of her loss.

What brought us here today are the unconscionable acts of Casey Anthony. Period. HER values, attitudes and priorities are what cost this child her life, not to mention the devastation of many others. MOO

It would be so easy to empathize with Cindy. The loss of a grandaughter must be unbearabley heartwrenching. But she has made it almost impossible to embrace her with her mudslinging, innuendos and blaming everyone but Casey. An entire nation has come to love Caylee and she should show appreciation that there are people from all walks of life coming to Florida this weekend to walk in the muddy swamps of Orlando to look for her little angel. If my car would make it, I would drive from California to Florida to help and I wouldnt ask Kathy Belich to have a NewsFlash that I needed help with my gas fund! I just want this whole thing to be over. I know Caylee is in the arms of angels. I just want a place where I can go lay flowers on her grave.

 

[icherish]

It would be so easy to empathize with Cindy. The loss of a grandaughter must be unbearabley heartwrenching. But she has made it almost impossible to embrace her with her mudslinging, innuendos and blaming everyone but Casey. An entire nation has come to love Caylee and she should show appreciation that there are people from all walks of life coming to Florida this weekend to walk in the muddy swamps of Orlando to look for her little angel. If my car would make it, I would drive from California to Florida to help and I wouldnt ask Kathy Belich to have a NewsFlash that I needed help with my gas fund! I just want this whole thing to be over. I know Caylee is in the arms of angels. I just want a place where I can go lay flowers on her grave.

Dolly, I understand your points, I do. I am sickened and heartbroken over Caylee's fate and the only one I blame for that is Casey.
Cindy's behavior has at times been shocking and hurtful to others, I realize this. I'm just not of the belief that two wrongs make a right. That because one is slinging mud, I should sling some too. Mudslinging or not, she is in horrific pain and she ultimately loses. There are no winners, but she has lost her granddaughter forever and she has lost her daughter, in the most inconceivable way. It is obvious she loved them both dearly and life will never, ever be the same for anyone in that family. Truly the stuff nightmares are made of. JMO

 

[kiki the parrot]

Kiki, while I do not support Cindy's irrational and often self-defeating behavior, I empathize with the pain of her loss.

What brought us here today are the unconscionable acts of Casey Anthony. Period. HER values, attitudes and priorities are what cost this child her life, not to mention the devastation of many others. MOO

I am not excusing KC's actions nor saying she is not responsible or should not be punished for her crimes. I am ultimately less interested in a pound of flesh or in assigning blame though than in understanding and hopefully preventing whatever sort of contributors there may be to this sort of tragedy. Otherwise yes we could just lock KC away, hang her or whatever, and that would be the end of it. I have posted at length re the experiences and perspective I've brought to this case although it seems unlikely you've read many. We don't know the exact circumstances on the day Caylee died, but we do know her mother has been unable thus far to give any honest accounting of those events, so I've tried to be patient while awaiting the totality of evidence before rushing to judgment. In the meantime there are certain things we've been able to observe about this family which I believe may be clues to her behavior. I personally think it's helpful to recognize the link between the way a person was raised and how this may translate to their inability to develop empathy. I'm also interested in the difference between mental illness and evil, the cycle of generational patterns, and understanding the influences and origin of people's behaviors. If you're not interested in doing this, that's fine. Yet I believe until we're willing to consider the source, and to look at where or from whom KC or those like herlearn deceit, exploitation or manipulation, that cycle or those influences will continue uninterrupted and there will always be another KC so tragically, in turn, other victims like Caylee. Which is why I am willing to ask questions such as what causes a girl like KC, once undoubtedly every bit as sweet, blameless, innocent and adorable as her own now deceased little daughter, to become devious or indifferent. I'm not excusing her choices--rather if anything, I am saying she should have been taught limits, consequences, accountability, self-control (not to mention the value of truthfulness) a long time ago. It isn't that I'm incapable of empathizing with CA's loss--I have (among four children) a 20 year-old daughter and 2 year-old granddaughter myself, for which reason if anything I've probably over-identified with CA. It's for this reason I'm probably willing to look farther to consider the root cause of all this sorrow, including the role that parenting extremes clearly play in shaping who our children become. KC must surely pay for her crimes. But if we can ever uncover some of these answers we might have a prayer of preventing this nightmare from replaying again and again or producing fewer "KCs" in the world who have learned to make the kind of selfish irresponsible choices which inflict pain on others. Unless of course you believe in demon seeds, or psycho genes. I do not. What we are seeing is, according to most psych experts, learned behavior. "Period." JMHO

 

[concentric]

Has there ever been a case where multiple family members are convicted for the crime?

 

[kiki the parrot]

It would be so easy to empathize with Cindy. The loss of a grandaughter must be unbearabley heartwrenching. But she has made it almost impossible to embrace her with her mudslinging, innuendos and blaming everyone but Casey. An entire nation has come to love Caylee and she should show appreciation that there are people from all walks of life coming to Florida this weekend to walk in the muddy swamps of Orlando to look for her little angel. If my car would make it, I would drive from California to Florida to help and I wouldnt ask Kathy Belich to have a NewsFlash that I needed help with my gas fund! I just want this whole thing to be over. I know Caylee is in the arms of angels. I just want a place where I can go lay flowers on her grave.

Amen. And the only thing that could possibly make this any more heartbreaking would be to fail to learn or to take away any wisdom from this. JMHO

 

[DollyPardonMe]

Has there ever been a case where multiple family members are convicted for the crime?

The Melendez Brothers were both convicted but I'm not sure which one actually committed the murder of their parents

 

[icherish]

I am not excusing KC's actions nor saying she is not responsible or should not be punished for her crimes. I am ultimately less interested in a pound of flesh or in assigning blame though than in understanding and hopefully preventing whatever sort of contributors there may be to this sort of tragedy. Otherwise yes we could just lock KC away, hang her or whatever, and that would be the end of it. I have posted at length re the experiences and perspective I've brought to this case although it seems unlikely you've read many. We don't know the exact circumstances on the day Caylee died, but we do know her mother has been unable thus far to give any honest accounting of those events, so I've tried to be patient while awaiting the totality of evidence before rushing to judgment. In the meantime there are certain things we've been able to observe about this family which I believe may be clues to her behavior. I personally think it's helpful to recognize the link between the way a person was raised and how this may translate to their inability to develop empathy. I'm also interested in the difference between mental illness and evil, the cycle of generational patterns, and understanding the influences and origin of people's behaviors. If you're not interested in doing this, that's fine. Yet I believe until we're willing to consider the source, and to look at where or from whom KC or those like herlearn deceit, exploitation or manipulation, that cycle or those influences will continue uninterrupted and there will always be another KC so tragically, in turn, another victim like Caylee. Which is why I am willing to ask questions like what causes a girl like KC, once undoubtedly every bit as sweet, blameless, innocent and adorable as her own now deceased little girl, to become devious or indifferent. I'm not excusing her choices--rather if anything, I am saying she should have been taught limits, consequences, accountability, self-control eg (not to mention the value of truthfulness) a long time ago. It isn't that I'm incapable of empathizing with CA's loss--I have (among four children) a 20 year-old daughter and 2 year-old granddaughter myself, for which reason if anything I've probably over-identified with CA. It's for this reason I'm probably willing to look farther to consider the root cause of all this sorrow, including the role that parenting extremes clearly play in shaping who our children become. KC must surely pay for her crimes. But if we can ever uncover some of these answers we might have a prayer of preventing this nightmare from replaying again and again or producing fewer "KCs" in the world who have learned to make the kind of selfish irresponsible choices which inflict pain on others. Unless of course you believe in demon seeds, or psycho genes. I do not. What we are seeing is, according to most psych experts, learned behavior. "Period." JMHO

With all due respect for your beliefs Kiki, I'm of the belief that there are people who, despite being taught, completely lack the sense to adhere to appropriate behaviors and social rules. That sociopathy could very well be developmentally based... something that is neurobiologically wrong from the start; and that parental influence, even that which is positive and consistent, may not effectively control pervasively errant behavior. I don't mean spoiled kids...I am talking about those for which consequences have no impact. The truly incorrigible...like we see with Casey Anthony.

I have seen something similar in my own family, an older cousin who I am convinced is sociopathic. Someone who has consistently railroaded any sense of normalcy in her family with her behaviors her entire life. As far back as I can remember, my cousin's behavior has NEVER been normal. She was always self centered, manipulating, lying, thieving, sadistic, and mean even as a kid. During the childhood/teen years, her parents had developed a rotating cycle of isolating her to her room, to beating the bad out of her, to a coddling, "circle of the wagons" type mentality when dealing with her. I'm convinced now that they just didn't know what to do with her...nothing seemed to work in and of itself. They took her to specialists as a child...mind you this was back in the 70's--they said said she had a mild hearing loss which caused low self esteem and THAT was the reason for her atrocious behavior. :waitasec: She got a hearing aid, but the behaviors only got worse as she got older.
The other 3 children (all girls) in the family were average kids, and grew up to be normal people...absolutely no serious issues other than suffering the backlash of thier crazy sister. Many times, they were afraid...as was I whenever I was around her. She put one sister through a glass shower door, shattering it and deeply cutting her sister's back, requiring sutures. She split another sister's head open during a rage. She was mean to the family pets. That's just as a kid! She has had numerous run ins with the law as an adult. Drugs, assault, stealing, neglect of her own child, the list is long. Short of murder, you name it..although that would not surprise me in the least. I have not seen or spoken to her in many years, and that is by my choice. I do know that nothing has changed with her, though. I believe her antics drove her father to an early grave and even though she is middle aged, she is still wreaking havoc in her poor old mother's life, much to the dismay and frustration of the family. This is someone who is rotten to the core and always will be.

 

[kiki the parrot]

The pathological narcissists and sociopath I suspect I've known, and the majority of case histories w which I'm familiar, all have a clear identifiable history which anyone could recognize to which their lack of empathy can be linked or attributed. From what we've learned, there's been very little "positive and consistent" about KC's parenting or upbringing whatsoever. KC never was held accountable but sadly had her outrageously bad behavior rescued, excused and enabled one too many times, until the ultimate price was paid--by CAYLEE.

Interestingly, narcissism in particular is said to result specifically from a controlling parent's simultaneous extremes of coddling (over-indulgence, excessive smothering) AND "beating the bad" (overly harsh and critical inacceptance of mistakes). That is to say when a child is deprived of both appropriate boundaries and discipline, AND permission to fail; when neither humility, nor reasonable limits, correction and consequences are provided, in balance, at critical stages. As I said, there are a number of factors--one of which is environmental. And while all else--the role of parental or other influences from one child to another--may appear to be equal or identical, we're only able to observe as outsiders and this subjective experience varies dramatically even between siblings.

After CA had been in collusion w KC's lies, letting KC off for stealing from her and virtually every other offense for 22 years, CA finally decides to act like a parent and draws the line that Father's Day--finally threatening to put KC out and hold her daughter accountable for the first time in her life. So in an odd sense KC's right then when she tells LA, "I should've been stopped a long time ago." A statement which reveals both a weakness of conscience, and a consciousness of guilt--beyond which the law will be essentially unconcerned w such nuances, coexisting disorders, contributing factors, or how KC may have come to be the (defiant, irresponsible, blameshifting, deceitful, seemingly indifferent) person she appears to sadly have become... but I'm looking here beyond strictly legally (it belongs more rightly in psych thread but since you brought it up...) at how controlling her mother is. And the anger and emotions people feel are not limited to KC.

Narcissistic parent- vs child-centered parenting produces narcisstic children. People w NPD are compulsive, serial liars. Witness KC's envy, exploitation, sense of entitlement, lack of empathy, false inflated self... There is nothing in the way she has behaved that is remotely how a mature, secure, rational, reasonable or responsible ADULT would act. But it may have been almost a self-fulfilling prophecy the way CA constantly was telling her what a bad mother she is. Then when you read the interview w her brother after she's pressed for the truth what does she keep repeating over and over? "Maybe Mom's right, maybe I am an unfit mother afterall," That's always stuck in my mind and was a flashing neon sign to me--she musters as close as she can to telling the truth. She also makes similar statements to LE, "I know my mother will NEVER forgive me," but soon reverts to self-deprecating ("Maybe I'm just a spiteful b*") and by the time CA returns, resumes the fabricating. IMO it was, and is still, CA's reaction she fears and whom she was lying to protect, not LE. Definitely some kind of emotional caretaking and enmeshment going on there. Much of which might be avoided if raised in an environment instead of GRACE (for mistakes) and TRUTH (consequences, and accountability). Instead it seems deceit, permissiveness, self-preservation, and enablement were the order of the day and well learned, while appearances were given more importance than operating in reality.

We can call KC an evil monster and search no farther for understanding; or we can hold her harmless because she's "sick" and "can't help it," but the truth lies somewhere between. And it might help if she was given permission by her mother to stop lying.

There is nothing that can be done now to bring back Caylee nor really ever reverse the damage that one disturbed, narcisstic young woman has already heaped upon so many. But thank God for all of the psychiatrists, clergyman, educators and laypeople who do seek to understand the causes of personality disorders, or the making of a sociopath--and to end the cycle of suffering. The only way I can see to overcome that in the future is by hopefully educating parents as well as those in the counseling and therapy community toward a greater awareness of child and personality development. I am very sorry to hear of the drama surrounding your cousin, the heartache and suffering of your family's ongoing ordeal. But I can not and will never accept the theory of "demon seeds" or "psycho genes," it's a far too fatalistic and dismal prospect.

Sociopaths aren't born. And you can't do battle with a hidden "enemy." JMHO

 

[mikeysmommom]

i was raised by a bi polar mother, i never had rules unless mom was in a bad mood then i would get a beating .Starting at the age of 2 i was given to a stranger to raise while she went to the hospital to give birth to my brother who i never saw till this year thanks to classmates i have finally found him .I found out about him when i was 5.I was a child in the 60's they never knew what moms problems were till the 80's.My aunts ,uncles and cousins all stayed away cause they didnt want to have to deal with my mothers illness.My mom was like the ryhm when she was good she was very very good but when she was bad ahe was horrid. I was spoiled then neglected.I didnt turn into a pycho.I love children and was a very good mom and i am an even better mom mom. So i dont believe in it all being the parents fault. Very bad people i think are born that way...........jmo

 

[zadari]

i was raised by a bi polar mother, i never had rules unless mom was in a bad mood then i would get a beating .Starting at the age of 2 i was given to a stranger to raise while she went to the hospital to give birth to my brother who i never saw till this year thanks to classmates i have finally found him .I found out about him when i was 5.I was a child in the 60's they never knew what moms problems were till the 80's.My aunts ,uncles and cousins all stayed away cause they didnt want to have to deal with my mothers illness.My mom was like the ryhm when she was good she was very very good but when she was bad ahe was horrid. I was spoiled then neglected.I didnt turn into a pycho.I love children and was a very good mom and i am an even better mom mom. So i dont believe in it all being the parents fault. Very bad people i think are born that way...........jmo

i have to agree with you on this post .. i see sooo many people ive even done it ... blame the parents .i think whats wrong with some kids these days is the simple fact they really dont have to answer to alot because the parents are the ones responsible .im not sayin this happens in every case .but i myself have seen alot of it .i taught my son you make your bed you lie in it cuz im not taking any responsibility for your actions you will be .. and i havnt had any major problems with him .he knows if he does something wrong HE will be answering for it paying for it and so on .. not me lol

 

[mikeysmommom]

I raised my 2 the same way...........And they have turned out to become terrific people. I think part of the problem with kids today is with both parents working no one is home. No one in most neighborhoods looks out for each others kids, everyone is to busy . When i was a kid and im only in my 40's ,if you went around the block and smoked a cig someone would call your parents and you would be in for it.............lol

 

[DollyPardonMe]

I am not excusing KC's actions nor saying she is not responsible or should not be punished for her crimes. I am ultimately less interested in a pound of flesh or in assigning blame though than in understanding and hopefully preventing whatever sort of contributors there may be to this sort of tragedy. Otherwise yes we could just lock KC away, hang her or whatever, and that would be the end of it. I have posted at length re the experiences and perspective I've brought to this case although it seems unlikely you've read many. We don't know the exact circumstances on the day Caylee died, but we do know her mother has been unable thus far to give any honest accounting of those events, so I've tried to be patient while awaiting the totality of evidence before rushing to judgment. In the meantime there are certain things we've been able to observe about this family which I believe may be clues to her behavior. I personally think it's helpful to recognize the link between the way a person was raised and how this may translate to their inability to develop empathy. I'm also interested in the difference between mental illness and evil, the cycle of generational patterns, and understanding the influences and origin of people's behaviors. If you're not interested in doing this, that's fine. Yet I believe until we're willing to consider the source, and to look at where or from whom KC or those like herlearn deceit, exploitation or manipulation, that cycle or those influences will continue uninterrupted and there will always be another KC so tragically, in turn, other victims like Caylee. Which is why I am willing to ask questions such as what causes a girl like KC, once undoubtedly every bit as sweet, blameless, innocent and adorable as her own now deceased little daughter, to become devious or indifferent. I'm not excusing her choices--rather if anything, I am saying she should have been taught limits, consequences, accountability, self-control (not to mention the value of truthfulness) a long time ago. It isn't that I'm incapable of empathizing with CA's loss--I have (among four children) a 20 year-old daughter and 2 year-old granddaughter myself, for which reason if anything I've probably over-identified with CA. It's for this reason I'm probably willing to look farther to consider the root cause of all this sorrow, including the role that parenting extremes clearly play in shaping who our children become. KC must surely pay for her crimes. But if we can ever uncover some of these answers we might have a prayer of preventing this nightmare from replaying again and again or producing fewer "KCs" in the world who have learned to make the kind of selfish irresponsible choices which inflict pain on others. Unless of course you believe in demon seeds, or psycho genes. I do not. What we are seeing is, according to most psych experts, learned behavior. "Period." JMHO

I have a 30 year old daughter and she has a 5 year old (my beautiful grandson). You don't know how many times I have wanted to call her "Casey". I don't know why some of these girls don't have these maternal instincts we have because it's their children who suffer. I was never selfish, always giving, yet she is the complete opposite. Even though I'd like to tell her to sashay her derrierre out of here, I can't let her go and take him because I wouldnt want to get a call in 31 days and say "Where's Payson"?