Evidence of Heart Shaped Sticker on Duct Tape Destroyed

[sumbunny]

*gasp* the duct tape on caylee and the gas cans are NOT a match? Please don't say this is true!

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/en...a-mystery-could-be-big-break-for-defense.html

 

[Fl Breeze]

I think she wanted the police to go out to universal to look at tapes to see if the babysitter had been out there. They should have considered doing that instead of interogating her when they were all without sleep since the day before. Sometimes that type of interogation works, sometimes it backfires. Most people clam up.

Babysitter? In all the discovery interviews and statements the only babysitter for the past year seemed to be CA.

Do you think Cindy did it?
Might be a new theory as to why the heart shaped sticker was put on Caylee.

 

[lin]

I think the question is whether the duct tape covered the nasal aperture area (nose) when it was first placed there (i.e., probably while Caylee was still alive), or just when the remains were found. I.e., had there been some slippage of position? After all, the tape was stuck only to the hair at that point, not to the skull itself.

I haven't finished catching up on this thread yet but am piggybacking on your post to make sure this info recently posted in another thread is included in our sleuthing of this topic:

"See page 3, paragraph 3 of this portion of the autopsy reports.

"...grayish colored tape was noted covering the mouth and nasal aperture areas..."

This analysis was done by John J. Schultz, Ph.D., an anthropologist and his report was submitted to Dr. G. "

I think it's significant the analysis was done by an anthropologist and expect the potential movement was considered not only by him but by whomever assigned this task to him, kwim?

 

[lin]

I think it is possible that because they used this so called residue evidence (which does not exist) to obtain a search warrant means that evidence collected from that search warrant could get thrown out.

The evidence existed at the time it formed the basis for the warrant. There remains evidence the residue existed at least in the form of testimony, if not pictures. I highly doubt the warrant will be thrown out in toto or even in part. If any part is thrown out it would only be for the scrapbooking things at most, imo but again, highly doubt even that would happen. The judge seems to be bending over backwards to be more than fair to the defense, imo, but I don't think he'll flip all the way over, kwim?

 

[lin]

exactly.

I think the statement in the autopsy report only says that's roughly where the tape was at the time of examination of the remains.

IIRC, in one of the defense's latest filings they admit there are numerous pictures of the duct tape including taken at the scene. I'm very confident the exact position of the duct tape at the time the remains were found is well documented. Also remember that an anthropologist specifically examined the duct taped area.

 

[lin]

I remember the pictures of heart stickers taken from the home, was evidence ever released indicating a match between the sticker at the scene and stickers from the home. I mean, I would assume since other items placed with Caylee were originally from the home (or appear to be) that the stickers were obtained there, too. But I know Casey's not the only one in her group that uses heart stickers, the photos from Casey's 21st birthday for example show Samantha's phone with heart stickers on it, hearts are popular with lots of people. (If anyone hasn't seen that particular photo, it's on my profile page if anyone wants to see it, I would post it here but for some reason when I post it it's huge.) I wouldn't be surprised if Casey had given photos to friends or boyfriends with heart stickers on them. I assume the heart sticker probably came from the A home like other items found with Caylee, or maybe from the car if Casey was carrying a bunch of stuff in her car while she and Caylee were staying here and there, of course that doesn't mean Casey is the one who placed it on duct tape on Caylee, I'm not saying that, it's one possibility obviously.

Did you all see this story in May? I missed it at the time, only saw it recently, thanks to a nice person here (maybe there was a whole thread and I missed it because I was away from WS for a while!) Anyway, about the defendant in two attempted kidnappings, one near the A's part of town, the other in Winter Park I think, who duct taped the little girls' mouth, took shorts and a blanket from the child's bedroom, took the child in the garage, etc? Very weird. Of course the defendant is awaiting trial and presumed innocent.
http://www.wftv.com/news/19489838/detail.html
http://www.wftv.com/news/20361829/detail.html
Don't want to start a discussion on it here, I'll look to see if there was a thread on this, but just thought I would post the links in case anyone else like me hadn't seen it at the time!

Perhaps you should see if it's ok to start a thread on those links? I don't want to derail this one discussing them with you but perhaps others would be as interested as you seem to be.

 

[lin]

In the video it says there was no picture taken of the outline of the heart shaped sticker remnants on the duct tape.

http://www.clickorlando.com/video/21110409/index.html


How can that be? They took pictures of everything else, including unrelated garbage!!! WTH? :banghead:

Of course, there's all the other evidence in the case, the laundry bag, the rare duct tape, the trash bags, and so much other stuff that came from the house. Not to mention the stinky car trunk...........

IIRC, that agency didn't take a picture but another entity may have, such as OCSO or coroner or FDLE or whomever else was involved.

 

[lin]

Sorry...coming in late...can you point me to where it says the search warrant was based on this? TIA

I don't think it was; certainly not totally but even so, I don't think it will matter.

 

[ZsaZsa]

I don't mean that Samantha is the only one in that age group that uses heart stickers, no doubt many young women of that age do. Wonder if Casey had ever given a picture to a boyfriend or friend with a heart sticker on it, or who may have seen hearts on her facebook, etc. Another perp could have placed a heart sticker on the tape as a cruel detail or message to Casey. I've never thought the heart sticker on the tape (if there was one) was a "goodbye kiss" at all. A goodbye kiss type of gesture would have been removing the tape, wrapping Caylee nicely, and placing her doll with her.

edited to add, Re: Samantha's phone with the heart stickers on it: Sorry, I posted the picture here of Samantha's phone with the heart stickers on it, but it was removed. Anyone who wants it can find it on my profile page, in the visitor messages.

How many of her friends also have missing/murdered children?

 

[ZsaZsa]

What I keep thinking of while all these distractions occur is that the Grand Jury indicted her without any of these evidence reports.... in less than an hour 19 people decided there was a case to answer..

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

I see your point of view, but the evidence needs to point to KC and only KC in order for a jury to find her guilty.And the sticker and tape evidence was so damning for KC- but now....not so much.:furious:

I'm wondering if the entire tape evidence will be thrown out now that we have learnt that not only did the testing obliterate the heart-shaped residue, but it was also contaminated by a lab techs DNA .( I doubt it though since JB can use it to call into question the quality of all testing done on the evidence, which will work in his/Kc's favour).

Two mistakes on one piece of evidence does make them look shoddy IMO. I hate to say it, I really do...but JB finally has a pretty valid point.

It does call into question the quality of the examinations on the evidence they have collected and tested IMO, and I'm pretty damn pizzed that they could make such careless mistakes on the best physical evidence that ties KC to this crime.
If KC walks or gets convicted on a lesser charge, the blame will lie not with her defence,or her family, but the people who were supposed to provide the scientific evidence of her involvement in Caylees death...who screwed up big time.

I'm Pizzed (yes with a capital P) that these errors could deny justice for Caylee....And I'm suprised that there isnt more frustration posted on these threads about this epic error.
But then, le/fbi/csi/lab techs errors are often swept under the carpet, while we put too much focus on how poorly written a def motion may be, which may be noteworthy, but nowhere near as significant as key evidence being destroyed and contaminated.
Yes mistakes happen. But the whole point of science is to remove doubt- its supposed to be a sure thing, with very little wiggle room. Maybe one error could be overlooked- but Two!!! On the one piece of evidence! We need to demand better quality control for labs so that guilty perps stay behind bars where they belong.
Of course this is just my (unpopular) opinion, with some fact thrown in.

It do agree with you on the point that there should be more frustration and outrage at the very people performing the tests that are going to seal KC's fate and hopefully find Justice for Caylee. I do know that it doesn't take a rocket scientist to take a dadgum digital picture of evidence of a test one is performing, or get another tech to do it for you, this is important stuff here!
The heart sticker was not the most important piece of evidence but it was a piece of evidence and given the fact this piece was screwed up not only once but twice gives more ammunition for the defense to attack with. JMO.

 

[lin]

Yes he did:

http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/DOC001.PDF

Was this testing done before the remains were identified? Does anyone recall?

 

[lin]

Ok, I'm not sure that this means they can't use it at trial because I see no reason why the person(s) who saw it cannot testify to its prior existance and let the jury determine whether or not they believe the testimony. But I have to tell you all that my first thought was...

Oh no - If they can't use the residue from the heart sticker as evidence then how are they going to get a conviction and maybe the case should be dismissed because there's nothing to the 31 days, the lies told to LE & family, the smell in the car, the duct tape & laundry bag that are tied to the home, etc - the jury will never believe KC did it without the heart-shaped residue.

Seriously, guys, while we may see placing a heart on the duct tape as cold and calculated and want the jury to see it too, they will have no problem convicting her without it. (And I agree with those who have said that destruction and/or consumption of evidence in the course of testing and examination is common and gives no grounds for dismissal or exclusion.)

Excellent post -- had to do more than click 'thanks'.

 

[lin]

Is anyone else having a hard time understanding how dusting for fingerprints could destroy adhesive??? I'm sorry, but if there was a heart shaped sticky area there that could be seen prior to dusting it would become more apparent with dusting.

I'm thinking that it wasn't the powdering that destroyed this but subsequent analysis of the tape itself; hence all the verbage about what areas of the tape were swabbed with methanol (which would destroy adhesive).

This has probably been address already but when has that slowed me down from being redundant? There are other methods to get fingerprints, powder isn't the only way. They were probably using a few different methods trying to find prints that wouldn't be visible. Have you ever seen how techs even use crazy glue to find hidden prints?

 

[lin]

Well I say let Baez gloat for a day or two, he won't have much opportunity to do that as we get closer to trial... that will wipe the smile right off his face.:woohoo:

If this is all he gets to gloat over, I'm happy cos I just don't see this at gloat-material at all.

 

[Brini]

Several trained eyes saw the duct tape, but only one saw the residue shaped like a heart. She should have never made that claim without a photo. The heart sticker evidence is very important. The press has used it for months. The fact that there is so much talk about it, proves there will be doubt in the mind of the jury. I questioned this whole heart sticker thing from the start. This case looks more like an abduction case.

Not that important, at all.

The 31 days, the chemical analyses of the trunk, the duct tape, and the behavioral are pretty much slam-dunk, had there never BEEN a decal.

Many have been convicted on much less. Ex: SP.

 

[Brini]

I think she wanted the police to go out to universal to look at tapes to see if the babysitter had been out there. They should have considered doing that instead of interogating her when they were all without sleep since the day before. Sometimes that type of interogation works, sometimes it backfires. Most people clam up.

The babysitter was shown not to exist.

Later, the As tried to implicate other people-- as shown by their email.

The first was, I believe, JG.

 

[Brini]

I am not sure how to reply to a particular post. I will try to go through this one.
Okay first paragraph. Is there proof that those are the trash bags from the house? Trash bags with yellow handles? Give me a break thier in several stores. The laundry bag? The police say similar, that is a generic statement. Duct tape? yes I agree the abducter used duct tape. I guess I think she was abducted from the nanny not casey. I am not surprised to see a blanket or toy. Yes she was on the phone a lot, so when did she kill her? Or do you believe she killed her while on the phone?

Second paragraph. The smell came from rotten trash or perhaps she ran over a couple of animals. She did get two flat tires at the same time. Thats not easy. Tony's trash came out of his kitchen. Could be just rotten food. He gave a valid reason for her to have the trash.

3rd paragraph. Yes she goes about her business. She thinks Caylee is fine at the Nanny's.

4th paragraph. Yes she loses her car by running out of gas. I wouldn't call le either. I would let dad take care of it. Yes, she believes Caylee is at the theme parks and she tells her friends.

Some kids lie to thier parents because it is easier. I hope everybody is right and Casey did it, but I need some real evidence. I think her story makes sense. Lee may have come up with a different story, but I have not heard Casey steer from her original story which makes sense to me. sorry I think some of you are angry because Casey partied afterwards. I can understand that. Lets keep our heads and get to the truth. I appreciate everyones patience. It is so much better than the newspaper blogs where it looks like a linch mob.

From which of her original stories has she not strayed?

The one about Zani and Caylee being gone from Sawgrass?

Or, the one where Zanny and Sam, WITH Sam's kids present, forcibly took Caylee away from her?

 

[Brini]

after reading the media reports and this thread, i've thought about the heart sticker and it's importance to this case. I've come to the conclusion that the heart sticker is not a case-breaker.

While the heart sticker, evidently placed over the duct tape and positioned over caylee's mouth was a shocking discovery, it's not this case in total. I don't fault the lab worker, trying to lift a fingerprint from the sticker residue, for destroying it in the process. Accidents happen and that duct tape was subjected to being immersed in water for many months.

The defense is making a major issue over the heart sticker residue being destroyed in the process of examination by a trained lab technician. The defense is implying that this was a deliberate destruction of evidence (that in reality only hurt the defense case). But in the long run, the heart sticker won't matter because it's only a small part of the total case.

When you consider.................

*that casey failed to report her daughter missing for 31 days.
*that casey lied about a non-existent nanny kidnapping caylee.
*that casey lied about having a job.
*that casey spent those 31 days partying and playing house with tl.
*that casey's car had a strong odor of human decomposition.
*that a hair from a deceased caylee was found in casey's trunk.
*that cadaver dogs hit on 3 different locations in the anthony yard.
*that cadaver dogs hit on the trunk of casey's car.
*that computer forensics uncover searches for chloroform, neck-breaking and the use of household items as weapons.
*that caylee's remains were found around the corner from her home.
*that caylee's remains were found with items from the anthony home.
*that caylee's head was wrapped in duct tape covering her mouth and nose.
*that casey has never shown any emotion over the loss of caylee.

When you consider all of the above, and more i didn't include, the heart sticker residue becomes only one small part of the case in total. While it's disappointing that the heart sticker residue was destroyed in the process of lab analysis, it won't change the outcome of the case. The prosecution's case is strong and i'm sure will lead to a conviction.

potd!

 

[Brini]

I am not playing devils advocate. I want the police to get it right. Putting the wrong person in jail is a bad thing for all of us. Casey's story is the only thing that makes sense out of this whole thing. Everything else is bizzare.

She thought everything was fine until some point she got worried. She did not report to the police in fear of Caylee getting hurt. ( once police get involved, people end up dead. that is fact)

She recognized right away that the police were going to blame her. She clammed up and got a lawyer who stopped her from talking to them. They should have never interogated her like that. They should have worked with her. If she is guilty, the evidence will show.

Think about her story, then think about all the other stories. Hers makes sense. I dont think the police ever did look for a nanny which worries me. I am on a fact finding mission.

I would like to see cause of death, motive, time of death. The generic statement that there is no Zfg and Jeffery Hopkins is a lie. There are several of both. I want the truth.

Why would she believe LE would charge her with Caylee's death, if she believed that Caylee was still alive?