Evidence of Heart Shaped Sticker on Duct Tape Destroyed

[chefmom]

If the defense has to admit that their was a heart shaped place on the tape, what does that cost them? There are no witnesses as far as we know that saw KC with the sticker. There are no witnesses or as far as we know no fingerprints that show KC placing the sticker on the tape. As far as the heart sticker being there, defense can allege that Caylee had stickers in her possession and that the "kidnapper" must have used them in the crime. So they can use the "lab error" and it doesn't cause them to admit to anything.

But, if they claim that Caylee had stickers and the kidnapper placed it there, they are admitting that there was indeed a sticker there. And, if the SA proves to a jury that KC was the "kidnapper", then KC must have placed that sticker there. I think both SA and JB may want to steer clear of this issue and stick with more tangible things that they can actually prove/disprove in a courtroom. The sticker residue is going to be a "sticky wicket". Not worth the trouble UNLESS there is actual proof positive that there was indeed a sticker placed on that duct tape. Then, the SA and JB wil both spin it to their liking and the best man will out.

 

[seagull65]

Wait...Amy told LE Casey didn't have any duct tape, but in her Facebook message to Casey she accused Casey of stealing duct tape? Huh????

I know, I remember questioning that back in one of the old threads, too. She complained to Casey about her not having returned her (Amy's) duct tape. A bunch of them had used duct tape on their costumes at the Anything But Clothes party. Casey's flag was held up with it according to Iassen's discussions here, (IIRC he said he had the flag after the party), we've seen the pictures of Troy in the bubble wrap or something, what was it? Was it held up by duct tape, too? How about Amy's own costume? Was Annie's potholder costume held up by duct tape?

edited to add: Heart stickers-- as we've all discussed before on other threads, Casey's also definitely not the only one in her group who likes heart stickers, as in Samantha's cell phone with the heart stickers on it, etc.

Now when Amy told LE, refresh my memory, that she hadn't known Casey to be in possession of....was it actually duct tape specifically or just "packaging materials" ? But the fact remains that lots of people had pieces of Amy's duct tape apparently from that party. If Casey hadn't returned the roll, it may still have been in her car or at the A home, and we don't know who all could have accessed the roll from that point.

 

[seagull65]

thanks for this thread. I'm wondering, if it actually was glue, why it would even be destroyed during the tests. What tests were performed on it. It's not like it's organic evidence that has to be consumed to be tested for DNA or something. If it was just dusted for prints, how would that remove it? I know a lot of you guys know more about these processes than me. If there was glue residue there, even if it couldn't be seen anymore after print dusting, it should still be visible somehow under some kind of light or scan, right? I would think it would still be visible after dusting anyway, maybe even more visible, just like dusting shows up prints? Photos must have been taken of the residue before doing anything to the evidence, right? thanks for info

 

[The Eunice Burns]

When Caylee's remains were found, LE went in there and took a ton of photographs of the crime scene before anything was touched. Then the FBI and OCSO went in and started removing the remains. It took about a week to recover all bones and evidence from the scene, taking pictures of things as they were found, before removal.

As I recall, when the heart-shaped residue was found on the duct tape, detectives went back and found the heart sticker at the scene.

I can't help but think that there has to be pictures of everything.

In regards to the duct tape..........I think you're right that in the process of lifting fingerprints, some of the duct tape will be destroyed. I think it's a good possibility that fingerprints were found on the duct tape.

Thanks, Leila! It hit me last night as I was lying awake thinking about the case (not good for insomnia) that there are photos of the tape, hundreds of them, that were taken at the scene, and photos taken by Dr. G and her techs. From every angle......So, the fact that the FBI agent didn't take a photo is a non issue. That wasn't her focus, the prints analysis was. I know in the end, the heart sticker is not the thrust of this case, but it was a finale that IMO, was a personal touch done only by someone who was very close to Caylee. Someone who still loved stickers and hearts...

Thanks for replying......

 

[seagull65]

I don't mean that Samantha is the only one in that age group that uses heart stickers, no doubt many young women of that age do. Wonder if Casey had ever given a picture to a boyfriend or friend with a heart sticker on it, or who may have seen hearts on her facebook, etc. Another perp could have placed a heart sticker on the tape as a cruel detail or message to Casey. I've never thought the heart sticker on the tape (if there was one) was a "goodbye kiss" at all. A goodbye kiss type of gesture would have been removing the tape, wrapping Caylee nicely, and placing her doll with her.

edited to add, Re: Samantha's phone with the heart stickers on it: Sorry, I posted the picture here of Samantha's phone with the heart stickers on it, but it was removed. Anyone who wants it can find it on my profile page, in the visitor messages.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I think the "no prints" statement refers only to the sticker residue area?
Whereas on the duct tape they said only that no prints of CA/GA/LA were found. IIRC no mention was made of Casey. It maybe there is fingerprint evidence they have yet to release ( I would personally save that little Bombshell for last) and it may be there are none..

Do we have a link showing this? I remember something about this too but now I see the FBI log says "no prints" and I think he's referring to the tape which both the heart residue and prints would have been on.

They way I interpret it is he/she was dusting the tape for prints when the heart shaped stickers residue got destroyed by the powder. No prints showed up and it was noted that it could be because of water.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I believe the reason JB would make an issue of the residue being 'destroyed' during testing is because he believes it gives him license to claim sloppy, ineffective work by the FBI lab. What he apparently is too dense to figure out is that if he claims the residue was destroyed, he would first have to admit that it DID exist!

JMO, of course.

You're good. Good call.

Do we know JB made an issue of this though? Or was this report just part of discovery that has become public?

I'm confused.

 

[Reagan]

I don't mean that Samantha is the only one in that age group that uses heart stickers, no doubt many young women of that age do. Wonder if Casey had ever given a picture to a boyfriend or friend with a heart sticker on it, or who may have seen hearts on her facebook, etc. Another perp could have placed a heart sticker on the tape as a cruel detail or message to Casey. I've never thought the heart sticker on the tape (if there was one) was a "goodbye kiss" at all. A goodbye kiss type of gesture would have been removing the tape, wrapping Caylee nicely, and placing her doll with her.

edited to add, Re: Samantha's phone with the heart stickers on it: Sorry, I posted the picture here of Samantha's phone with the heart stickers on it, but it was removed. Anyone who wants it can find it on my profile page, in the visitor messages.

Who is samantha? Also, I don't see any pic.

Annie was the one who had heart stickers on her cell. The only samantha I know of is the imaginary one who helped hold down KC at JBP :crazy:

 

[wenwe4]

I apologise if this has already been mentioned. FBI dna analysis handwritten pg 8712 (pg 353 of 662 pgs) examination of 3 pieces of duct tape with Henkle on it

Pieces of duct tape measure: 9.75" x 2" and 8.75" x 2" and 7.25" x 2".

the 9.75" would probably wrap most of the way around Caylee's head as it nearly touches both of my ears.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I apologise if this has already been mentioned. FBI dna analysis handwritten pg 8712 (pg 353 of 662 pgs) examination of 3 pieces of duct tape with Henkle on it

Pieces of duct tape measure: 9.75" x 2" and 8.75" x 2" and 7.25" x 2".

the 9.75" would probably wrap most of the way around Caylee's head as it nearly touches both of my ears.

Thanks for the test! Mine too - a little past nine inches from the back of the head, closer to eleven around the front - I'm adult sized - ha.

 

[Spangle]

If the defense has to admit that their was a heart shaped place on the tape, what does that cost them? There are no witnesses as far as we know that saw KC with the sticker. There are no witnesses or as far as we know no fingerprints that show KC placing the sticker on the tape. As far as the heart sticker being there, defense can allege that Caylee had stickers in her possession and that the "kidnapper" must have used them in the crime. So they can use the "lab error" and it doesn't cause them to admit to anything.

The SODDI defense isn't going to work. That horse has been beaten to death in trying to make it work. Which makes it highly doubtful it would even remotely fly with the jury.

So if the defense sets up that story, then when the jury realizes that some other dude could not have done it, only KC could have done it, then are still going to have that 'story' in their mind that the defense put there. That the murder (KC) put a sticker on the taped face of her daughter.

Basicly, it will blow up in their face.

While this is considered a DP case, it's rare that females actually get the DP. However, the sticker story, OUCH! It might have made her sound like such a monster to the jury.. that they might have actually gave her the DP. SOOOOO NOOOOT WORTH it!

the sticker residue being gone, is the best thing for the defense.

 

[butwhatif?]

The SODDI defense isn't going to work. That horse has been beaten to death in trying to make it work. Which makes it highly doubtful it would even remotely fly with the jury.

So if the defense sets up that story, then when the jury realizes that some other dude could not have done it, only KC could have done it, then are still going to have that 'story' in their mind that the defense put there. That the murder (KC) put a sticker on the taped face of her daughter.

Basicly, it will blow up in their face.

While this is considered a DP case, it's rare that females actually get the DP. However, the sticker story, OUCH! It might have made her sound like such a monster to the jury.. that they might have actually gave her the DP. SOOOOO NOOOOT WORTH it!

the sticker residue being gone, is the best thing for the defense.

I see your point of view, but the evidence needs to point to KC and only KC in order for a jury to find her guilty.And the sticker and tape evidence was so damning for KC- but now....not so much.:furious:

I'm wondering if the entire tape evidence will be thrown out now that we have learnt that not only did the testing obliterate the heart-shaped residue, but it was also contaminated by a lab techs DNA .( I doubt it though since JB can use it to call into question the quality of all testing done on the evidence, which will work in his/Kc's favour).

Two mistakes on one piece of evidence does make them look shoddy IMO. I hate to say it, I really do...but JB finally has a pretty valid point.

It does call into question the quality of the examinations on the evidence they have collected and tested IMO, and I'm pretty damn pizzed that they could make such careless mistakes on the best physical evidence that ties KC to this crime.
If KC walks or gets convicted on a lesser charge, the blame will lie not with her defence,or her family, but the people who were supposed to provide the scientific evidence of her involvement in Caylees death...who screwed up big time.

I'm Pizzed (yes with a capital P) that these errors could deny justice for Caylee....And I'm suprised that there isnt more frustration posted on these threads about this epic error.
But then, le/fbi/csi/lab techs errors are often swept under the carpet, while we put too much focus on how poorly written a def motion may be, which may be noteworthy, but nowhere near as significant as key evidence being destroyed and contaminated.
Yes mistakes happen. But the whole point of science is to remove doubt- its supposed to be a sure thing, with very little wiggle room. Maybe one error could be overlooked- but Two!!! On the one piece of evidence! We need to demand better quality control for labs so that guilty perps stay behind bars where they belong.
Of course this is just my (unpopular) opinion, with some fact thrown in.

 

[RR0004]

you guys drop it. It's just semantics. The heart shaped residue is not there anymore. Disappeared, destroyed , eaten up during the fingerprint process whatever.


What are the ramifications, if any to this development?

From what I gather...still a yummy sundae. Oh, BTW, have you noticed how many food references we make here on WS?!

I'm out to DD. BBL

 

[Spangle]

I see your point of view, but the evidence needs to point to KC and only KC in order for a jury to find her guilty.And the sticker and tape evidence was so damning for KC- but now....not so much.:furious:

The evidence as a group, is pointing only to KC. There was only a slim hope that there would be finger prints on the tape. The sticker, was totally a surprise and a bonus. The tape it's self is still a good piece of evidence. None of this changes where it was found and what it covered. Still very daming.

I'm wondering if the entire tape evidence will be thrown out now that we have learnt that not only did the testing obliterate the heart-shaped residue, but it was also contaminated by a lab techs DNA .( I doubt it though since JB can use it to call into question the quality of all testing done on the evidence, which will work in his/Kc's favour).

I don't see why? If KC's DNA was found, then they could use it as an excuse to throw THAT evidence out. If nothing scientific was found, then nothing scientific will be brought up in trial.

Two mistakes on one piece of evidence does make them look shoddy IMO. I hate to say it, I really do...but JB finally has a pretty valid point.

Actually, it shows WHY they have safe guards place to catch these sort of things. That they caught it, shows how thorough(sp) they are.

It does call into question the quality of the examinations on the evidence they have collected and tested IMO, and I'm pretty damn pizzed that they could make such careless mistakes on the best physical evidence that ties KC to this crime.

The procedures that are in place cuts down on cross contamination. But it still can happen. Unless they treat it like bio contamination. Which it isn't.

If KC walks or gets convicted on a lesser charge, the blame will lie not with her defence,or her family, but the people who were supposed to provide the scientific evidence of her involvement in Caylees death...who screwed up big time.

How did we catch murders before we used science in the court rooms? Does this mean we are suppose to toss all evidence that points to KC? No. This isn't the end all of this case.

I'm Pizzed (yes with a capital P) that these errors could deny justice for Caylee....And I'm suprised that there isnt more frustration posted on these threads about this epic error.
But then, le/fbi/csi/lab techs errors are often swept under the carpet, while we put too much focus on how poorly written a def motion may be, which may be noteworthy, but nowhere near as significant as key evidence being destroyed and contaminated.
Yes mistakes happen. But the whole point of science is to remove doubt- its supposed to be a sure thing, with very little wiggle room. Maybe one error could be overlooked- but Two!!! On the one piece of evidence! We need to demand better quality control for labs so that guilty perps stay behind bars where they belong.
Of course this is just my (unpopular) opinion, with some fact thrown in.

Actually, this isn't being swept under the rug. The tech kept track of it, noted it. It wasn't hidden.

That was honesty.

And it should be noted that they were honest. It is because labs try to hid this sort of stuff, and make up results, that innocents get convicted.

Lab science ADDS to the case. If it can find scientific evidence on the evidence.

Case in point.. we still have the tape as evidence. THAT hasn't changed. We don't have finger prints on it. (old science). Our DNA testing was contaminated (new science). And we don't get to run further testing on adhesive found on the non-adhesive side of the tape.

This will not be the only evidence that nothing scientific will be found. We have just learned to expect that it will always be like TV. WE are soooo spoiled. Tee hee..

 

[ZsaZsa]

I see your point of view, but the evidence needs to point to KC and only KC in order for a jury to find her guilty.And the sticker and tape evidence was so damning for KC- but now....not so much.:furious:

I'm wondering if the entire tape evidence will be thrown out now that we have learnt that not only did the testing obliterate the heart-shaped residue, but it was also contaminated by a lab techs DNA .( I doubt it though since JB can use it to call into question the quality of all testing done on the evidence, which will work in his/Kc's favour).

Two mistakes on one piece of evidence does make them look shoddy IMO. I hate to say it, I really do...but JB finally has a pretty valid point.

It does call into question the quality of the examinations on the evidence they have collected and tested IMO, and I'm pretty damn pizzed that they could make such careless mistakes on the best physical evidence that ties KC to this crime.
If KC walks or gets convicted on a lesser charge, the blame will lie not with her defence,or her family, but the people who were supposed to provide the scientific evidence of her involvement in Caylees death...who screwed up big time.

I'm Pizzed (yes with a capital P) that these errors could deny justice for Caylee....And I'm suprised that there isnt more frustration posted on these threads about this epic error.
But then, le/fbi/csi/lab techs errors are often swept under the carpet, while we put too much focus on how poorly written a def motion may be, which may be noteworthy, but nowhere near as significant as key evidence being destroyed and contaminated.
Yes mistakes happen. But the whole point of science is to remove doubt- its supposed to be a sure thing, with very little wiggle room. Maybe one error could be overlooked- but Two!!! On the one piece of evidence! We need to demand better quality control for labs so that guilty perps stay behind bars where they belong.
Of course this is just my (unpopular) opinion, with some fact thrown in.

Juries can usually determine that if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, acts like a duck it most definitely is a duck.... Just ask Scott Peterson.

 

[strach304]

I apologise if this has already been mentioned. FBI dna analysis handwritten pg 8712 (pg 353 of 662 pgs) examination of 3 pieces of duct tape with Henkle on it

Pieces of duct tape measure: 9.75" x 2" and 8.75" x 2" and 7.25" x 2".

the 9.75" would probably wrap most of the way around Caylee's head as it nearly touches both of my ears.

I was really intrigued with this info so I did the measurements on my own face also. When I measured the 6" total for width of all three pieces it extends from my chin all the way up to the middle of my forehead. Now, taking into consideration that it was stated to be 3 layers covering the mouth and nasal area, then how flat and tight it may have been applied could that indicate that her eyes were also covered? :waitasec:

Using the largest length measurement (9.75") across my nose, mouth, chin and eye area it does reach my ears and to my hairline every time. Again, depending on how tight and pushed down it was placed imo that is quite a wrap on a babies face. I wonder what order the length of the strips were placed.

 

[Brini]

I see your point of view, but the evidence needs to point to KC and only KC in order for a jury to find her guilty.And the sticker and tape evidence was so damning for KC- but now....not so much.:furious:

I'm wondering if the entire tape evidence will be thrown out now that we have learnt that not only did the testing obliterate the heart-shaped residue, but it was also contaminated by a lab techs DNA .( I doubt it though since JB can use it to call into question the quality of all testing done on the evidence, which will work in his/Kc's favour).

Two mistakes on one piece of evidence does make them look shoddy IMO. I hate to say it, I really do...but JB finally has a pretty valid point.

It does call into question the quality of the examinations on the evidence they have collected and tested IMO, and I'm pretty damn pizzed that they could make such careless mistakes on the best physical evidence that ties KC to this crime.
If KC walks or gets convicted on a lesser charge, the blame will lie not with her defence,or her family, but the people who were supposed to provide the scientific evidence of her involvement in Caylees death...who screwed up big time.

I'm Pizzed (yes with a capital P) that these errors could deny justice for Caylee....And I'm suprised that there isnt more frustration posted on these threads about this epic error.
But then, le/fbi/csi/lab techs errors are often swept under the carpet, while we put too much focus on how poorly written a def motion may be, which may be noteworthy, but nowhere near as significant as key evidence being destroyed and contaminated.
Yes mistakes happen. But the whole point of science is to remove doubt- its supposed to be a sure thing, with very little wiggle room. Maybe one error could be overlooked- but Two!!! On the one piece of evidence! We need to demand better quality control for labs so that guilty perps stay behind bars where they belong.
Of course this is just my (unpopular) opinion, with some fact thrown in.

I'm pizzed, as well.

However, the sticker was not that key.

And, it was NOT swept under the rug-- it was announced to the public, by the FBI.

There's still a mountain of evidence, particularly the 31 days and the evidenc of human decomp plus Caylee's dead DNA. Not to mention all the behavioral stuff. And, the fact that KC and fam made every possible effort to derail the investigation.

Caylee will get justice. I promise.

 

[Brini]

thanks for this thread. I'm wondering, if it actually was glue, why it would even be destroyed during the tests. What tests were performed on it. It's not like it's organic evidence that has to be consumed to be tested for DNA or something. If it was just dusted for prints, how would that remove it? I know a lot of you guys know more about these processes than me. If there was glue residue there, even if it couldn't be seen anymore after print dusting, it should still be visible somehow under some kind of light or scan, right? I would think it would still be visible after dusting anyway, maybe even more visible, just like dusting shows up prints? Photos must have been taken of the residue before doing anything to the evidence, right? thanks for info

I'm no expert either. But, I DO know that there are different tests for different materials under different conditions-- it's not always dusting that gets the prints.

For instance, sometimes, the prints are smoked out with epoxy gas.

 

[Pondering Mind]

Juries can usually determine that if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, acts like a duck it most definitely is a duck.... Just ask Scott Peterson.

Casey Anthony-:rubberducky:-quack quack...

 

[The Eunice Burns]

Actually, this isn't being swept under the rug. The tech kept track of it, noted it. It wasn't hidden.

That was honesty.

And it should be noted that they were honest. It is because labs try to hid this sort of stuff, and make up results, that innocents get convicted.

Lab science ADDS to the case. If it can find scientific evidence on the evidence.

Case in point.. we still have the tape as evidence. THAT hasn't changed. We don't have finger prints on it. (old science). Our DNA testing was contaminated (new science). And we don't get to run further testing on adhesive found on the non-adhesive side of the tape.

This will not be the only evidence that nothing scientific will be found. We have just learned to expect that it will always be like TV. WE are soooo spoiled. Tee hee..

BBM You reminded me of something I noticed in the reports and emails from the FBI agents.....the "Director" is mentioned.....the gist being that the Director is very interested in this case and was briefed daily. I tried earlier to post about this and link, but was having trouble w/ downloading it. Anyway, I thought that was noteworthy, b/c if the agent is referring to the Director of the FBI, that means that this case was/is high profile, high priority, and they'd be careful to get it right. Which makes me feel even more confident.