hunderwood
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Just cause calls were made from Heathers phone to SM doesn't mean she made them, someone else could've had possession of her phone.
EVIDENCE - Pro and Con
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Just cause calls were made from Heathers phone to SM doesn't mean she made them, someone else could've had possession of her phone.
Motherof5
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Even if that allegation were true,it's still no reason to kill someone.
Motherof5
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I think they have it all and were watching her the entire time. JMO
Ghostwheel
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Reading Tumblr. Or any other social media or internet site.
Kill and remove the body and/or clean the vehicle. That adds another item to the timeline, but I just filled that in in my mind.
Time line suggests waiting as one possibility. Running home to drop something off or pick something up is also in that list of possibilities, after waiting in the parking lot or instead of waiting in the parking lot.
None that we have seen anything about in media yet.
Slightly different from this timeline, she might have been alive at that time. Even if she wasn't, at 2-3 in the morning, most people are asleep and Heather was pretty small.
If she was alive, she could have driven or been in the passenger seat. If deceased, trunk works.
Were Cadaver dogs used on that car that night it was found? Or a week later? Or at all? If she wasn't dead when when was originally in the car, was killed at another location, no hit. Depending on the cleaning job of the car, how a body was wrapped, the length of time and the abilities of the cadaver dog, it could still be no hit.
He might have brought a tarp or plastic. As a contractor, he would most likely have that kind of thing readily available. Or he might have used something in the condo.
I don't know. It wouldn't be unusual if it were, unless it had a death band, though.
Might have not thought she needed to, since she was almost there herself. Or busy driving? Is the truck a stick or automatic?
If SM said he'd call when he was almost there, the 3:39 call, even if unanswered, would make TM think that is what he was calling for.
Gloves and a painter's suit and hat (disposable) would keep most tranferables from happening. Again, a contractor would most likely have those. They are used for more than just painting. That takes care of everything except shoe print, which aren't usually left unless it is wet or rainy. It also depends on the vehicle carpet or mats. My mats are deep rutted rubber. Nothing makes a print on those. I don't know what was in Heather's car. And according to TM, there should already be some of SM's DNA in Heather's car if there were three times in the back of said car, after all.
Madeleine74
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Still not making sense to me: If SM killed Heather at her apt and put Heather's body into the truck, and thus not her own car, TM had to be waiting near the apt to pick him up with the truck and transport the body. Cell phone pings from SM's phone, which WS theorists suggest was in TM's control, do not place that phone at or near Heather's apt.
The timeline indicates the black truck was coming from the direction of M's house and right to PTL.
So again, who had Heather's body and what vehicle was used to transport her to PTL from her apt if it wasn't her own car, and where was SM and where was TM?
The timeline indicates the black truck was coming from the direction of M's house and right to PTL.
So again, who had Heather's body and what vehicle was used to transport her to PTL from her apt if it wasn't her own car, and where was SM and where was TM?
PeterThomasFan
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I cannot say that I, LE, or anyone else aside from the killer(s) and possibly whoever else they told how and where Heather was killed. I just know from the evidence we have thus far is that she was killed sometime between 2:29AM and 3:16AM. And, it's even possible she was drugged and killed later.
It's possible that SM and/or TM overpowered Heather and killed her at or near her apartment then put her in the truck or dumped her body nearby.
Then, TM drove the truck to PTL to rendezvous with SM who drove Heather's car there.
There has never been any release of evidence concerning SM's phone pings. I said that this could support this timeline and it would certainly help the investigation. If this info would be known, it could in fact place SM and/or TM at Heather's apartment! The timeline I presented does not get into any detail about how, why, or where Heather was killed.
Again, "the big unknown" is... where is Heather?
If we actually knew that, then it could help solve this case! There is no real evidence (that we know of) that Heather was even at PTL. She could have been in the back of the truck when TM picked SM up at PTL. She could have been dumped in a septic tank on the way to pick up SM or on the way back up HWY 814, she could have remained dead at her apartment and then dumped later. She could have dead and remained at the M's overnight and then dumped later. I dunno. That's still the $25,000 question or whatever the reward is up to at this point.
All IMO. :moo:
Happyshoes
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Somewhere in the back of my (feeble) mind, I was of the opinion that LE totally believes Heather drove to PTL, she was killed there, and they have evidence of that - could it be something as simple as a shell casing? Then when they searched the M's home, they found the gun to match it? I know this seems too good to be true, maybe just wishful thinking on my part.
magnolia
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Who said it was.:waitasec:
magnolia
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I was referring to the defense claim that Heather made calls to Sidney from other phones.
Madeleine74
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I'm not suggesting anyone should have or must have the answer here. But detailed theories are being explored and I am reading and trying to follow along and then I realized what we have are:
- 3 people involved that we know of (TM, SM, HE)
- 2 cell phones involved that we know of (SM, HE). Where TM's cell phone was during this time is unknown.
- 1 payphone involved
- 2 vehicles involved that we know of (SM black truck, HE car)
The payphone is an immovable object and it's location and time of use is fixed, so that's a good data point. Plus there is CCTV video .
The cell phones provide information such as ping data to towers and GPS data (at least HE's does, not sure about the M's phones yet), so that will show what phone(s) were active and when and generally where those phones were when they were transmitting.
The movement of the cell phones helps to provide context in looking at the timeline. It's true we don't have the data except for a couple snippets the state used in their bond hearing #1.
For a cohesive theory, the movement of the cell phone(s) can't be thrown out of the equation because they were in use that night/morning.
As for the movement of vehicles: IF SM went to HE's condo then he must have driven there himself OR gotten a ride from someone OR Heather picked him up from somewhere.
- IF SM drove himself to HE's apt he had a vehicle (truck).
- IF SM got a ride over he was with someone else on the way and that person may have stayed nearby or may have left, either way SM would not have his own vehicle to use by himself because the person with him would have to leave the area too.
- IF Heather picked SM up and took him to her condo, her cell phone pings don't indicate that, as the state says she did not leave her apt/condo until she went to PTL around 3:20am.
IF SM killed HE at her apt/condo he had to remove her body in some way and then transport it somewhere, using some kind of vehicle.
His possibilities for transporting a dead Heather were:
- one of his trucks (black one or red one)
- HE's car
- Someone else with a completely different vehicle came and picked up HE's body and helped them out.
During all these events cell phones are in people's possessions and those cell phones are communicating with towers that can track their location. TM's cell phone was in her own possession, I imagine. SM's cell phone might have been in TM's possession or might have been in SM's possession. HE's cell phone was in her own possession at least through 2:30am and after that we don't know.
Again, I'm *not* saying anyone here on WS should have all the answers as that's impossible since all the information hasn't been released.
Perhaps the cell phone pings and GPS movement and other data bits allows the state to know the movement of people involved.
- 3 people involved that we know of (TM, SM, HE)
- 2 cell phones involved that we know of (SM, HE). Where TM's cell phone was during this time is unknown.
- 1 payphone involved
- 2 vehicles involved that we know of (SM black truck, HE car)
The payphone is an immovable object and it's location and time of use is fixed, so that's a good data point. Plus there is CCTV video .
The cell phones provide information such as ping data to towers and GPS data (at least HE's does, not sure about the M's phones yet), so that will show what phone(s) were active and when and generally where those phones were when they were transmitting.
The movement of the cell phones helps to provide context in looking at the timeline. It's true we don't have the data except for a couple snippets the state used in their bond hearing #1.
For a cohesive theory, the movement of the cell phone(s) can't be thrown out of the equation because they were in use that night/morning.
As for the movement of vehicles: IF SM went to HE's condo then he must have driven there himself OR gotten a ride from someone OR Heather picked him up from somewhere.
- IF SM drove himself to HE's apt he had a vehicle (truck).
- IF SM got a ride over he was with someone else on the way and that person may have stayed nearby or may have left, either way SM would not have his own vehicle to use by himself because the person with him would have to leave the area too.
- IF Heather picked SM up and took him to her condo, her cell phone pings don't indicate that, as the state says she did not leave her apt/condo until she went to PTL around 3:20am.
IF SM killed HE at her apt/condo he had to remove her body in some way and then transport it somewhere, using some kind of vehicle.
His possibilities for transporting a dead Heather were:
- one of his trucks (black one or red one)
- HE's car
- Someone else with a completely different vehicle came and picked up HE's body and helped them out.
During all these events cell phones are in people's possessions and those cell phones are communicating with towers that can track their location. TM's cell phone was in her own possession, I imagine. SM's cell phone might have been in TM's possession or might have been in SM's possession. HE's cell phone was in her own possession at least through 2:30am and after that we don't know.
Again, I'm *not* saying anyone here on WS should have all the answers as that's impossible since all the information hasn't been released.
Perhaps the cell phone pings and GPS movement and other data bits allows the state to know the movement of people involved.
PeterThomasFan
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Agree with all of your points @Madeleine74. I think a big piece of the puzzle we are missing are the pings and GPS data (if any) from SM's and TM's phones.
From the timeline I posted, the times really fit for movement in terms of driving...
3:17AM - Both SM and TM drive from Heather's apartment taking different routes.
TM drives truck (501 N > 31 W > 544 N > HWY 814 > Mill Pond Rd. > Peachtree Rd.). - 24 minutes = 3:41AM
SM drives Heather's car to PTL (501 N > Forestbrook Rd. > Dick Pond Rd. > Peachtree Rd.). - 20 minutes = 3:37AM
3:38AM - SM attempts to call TM 4 times (3:39, 3:39:46 and 3:41) as he approaches PTL to come and get him, that he is almost there.
3:41AM - TM arrives at PTL. Battery is pulled from Heather's phone and Heather's phone data ends at that point.
Kangaroo (10th Ave.) to HE's Apartment - 6 minutes
HE's Apartment to M's - 15 minutes
HE's Apartment to PTL - 20 minutes
M's to PTL - 9 minutes
HE's Apartment to M's to PTL - 24 minutes
From the timeline I posted, the times really fit for movement in terms of driving...
3:17AM - Both SM and TM drive from Heather's apartment taking different routes.
TM drives truck (501 N > 31 W > 544 N > HWY 814 > Mill Pond Rd. > Peachtree Rd.). - 24 minutes = 3:41AM
SM drives Heather's car to PTL (501 N > Forestbrook Rd. > Dick Pond Rd. > Peachtree Rd.). - 20 minutes = 3:37AM
3:38AM - SM attempts to call TM 4 times (3:39, 3:39:46 and 3:41) as he approaches PTL to come and get him, that he is almost there.
3:41AM - TM arrives at PTL. Battery is pulled from Heather's phone and Heather's phone data ends at that point.
Kangaroo (10th Ave.) to HE's Apartment - 6 minutes
HE's Apartment to M's - 15 minutes
HE's Apartment to PTL - 20 minutes
M's to PTL - 9 minutes
HE's Apartment to M's to PTL - 24 minutes
Madeleine74
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Which path takes the black truck past those cameras that recorded its movements? Wasn't that from the direction of the M's compound ---> to PTL?
Wouldn't that mean that TM leaving HE's apartment would then have to drive in a direction that then takes her (assuming she is driving the black truck) past those cameras at those times? What path would that have been or did TM instead go home first and then back to PTL and would she have passed any different cameras than the ones already seen, on whatever route she took away from HE's to whereever?
In this scenario TM is driving around with Heather's body in the black truck. Hmmmm....
Wouldn't that mean that TM leaving HE's apartment would then have to drive in a direction that then takes her (assuming she is driving the black truck) past those cameras at those times? What path would that have been or did TM instead go home first and then back to PTL and would she have passed any different cameras than the ones already seen, on whatever route she took away from HE's to whereever?
In this scenario TM is driving around with Heather's body in the black truck. Hmmmm....
PeterThomasFan
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Refer to my last post. I noted the route I suspect TM took.
There is another CCTV on 544 before turn onto HWY 814 (at CVS) that could have captured TM. I'm not sure if that camera resulted in any useable video though. Haven't heard about it for awhile.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. Sorry for any typos!
bestill
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Catching up, but something someone said just a few posts back brought me a little humor...can you all imagine TM trying to remember all that she posted on social media, especially since her computers and phones were confiscated? That brought me a bit of pleasure imagining her trying to remember and find it all.
http://www.wmbfnews.com/story/24804641/hcpd-couple-to-be-charged-with-murder-of-heather-elvis
According to newly-obtained arrest warrants for Tammy and Sidney Moorer, the HCPD states there is probable cause to believe that they kidnapped Heather Elvis and murdered her at Peachtree Boat Landing on December 18, 2013.
The warrants for the murder charges state that Tammy and Sidney Moorer "did unlawfully, without just or sufficient cause, murder Heather Elvis with malice forethought." The kidnapping warrants state that the couple "did unlawfully seize, confine, kidnap, abduct or carry away Heather Elvis by any means whatsoever without the authority of the law."
I realize we probably won't know until trial but it sure does make a person wonder just what LE has to back up these charges and the statements above??
According to newly-obtained arrest warrants for Tammy and Sidney Moorer, the HCPD states there is probable cause to believe that they kidnapped Heather Elvis and murdered her at Peachtree Boat Landing on December 18, 2013.
The warrants for the murder charges state that Tammy and Sidney Moorer "did unlawfully, without just or sufficient cause, murder Heather Elvis with malice forethought." The kidnapping warrants state that the couple "did unlawfully seize, confine, kidnap, abduct or carry away Heather Elvis by any means whatsoever without the authority of the law."
I realize we probably won't know until trial but it sure does make a person wonder just what LE has to back up these charges and the statements above??
PeterThomasFan
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Could the authorities be any more vague?
I've never seen a case where the authorities blatantly hide their reasoning behind arresting someone for murder. I mean, if they know that Heather was killed at PTL, why not just come out and say how they've come to that conclusion?
It's like they're working backwards!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. Sorry for any typos!
Unykorn&Reignbeaus
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One thing that bothers me..... no matter how HE's vehicle got to PTL, why did LE allow TE to drive it home? I would have thought that it would have been evidence and should have been put in compound. Anyone have any thoughts on that?
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