EVIDENCE - Pro and Con

[magnolia]

I will never believe that HE called SM's phone that night, because TM had already told her that 'dad doesn't have a phone anymore' and he had just called her from a payphone.
I also don't believe she would have went in the middle of a cold night to meet him at the boat landing, when she was home alone, or she could have picked him up at the gas station where the pay phone was.
HE was maybe still infatuated with SM, but she couldn't have been totally stupid.
That is all MOO, only.

According to the defense, there were calls from Heather to Sidney's cell phone from other phones. No proof to support yet. However, I'm not going to totally disregard this allegation.

 

[TTF14]

Or - one person (who's a more conservative driver) drove to the landing and the other person drove back (maybe that persons adrenaline was racing more and they were more anxious thus driving much faster when leaving the landing?)

I can see that play out in my head anyway.

I agree with this theory.

 

[Dixie E]

I wonder if the whole route of travel from PTL back to the Ms house was ever checked thoroughly for a tossed cell phone, keys, purse, ect. It would be worth searching before the trial. I also noticed in the photo of H out on her date that night, that she was wearing a watch and a ring on her middle finger. Could those items have been found in the M house and could anyone possibly identify that ring?

 

[magnolia]

We can't put ourselves in the shoes of this 20 yr old young woman who was in her particular situation with that particular married guy because we are not her. The most objective way to figure a case is just go with the evidence as it comes out, when it comes out, and try as much as possible not to project your own life and own beliefs onto the victim. The sequence of events will unfold during the trial and until then we spectators will not know more than we do until information is released (during trial).

BBM- I agree. However, I think it's safe to consider typical behavior of a 20 yr. old. Using fear as an example: There are few 20 yr. olds that would fear driving in familiar surroundings to a place such as PTL at 3:00 A.M. It has been alleged she was expecting Sidney to be there waiting on her or that he would arrive shortly. What was there to fear? I also don't believe fear of a wife would prevent a 20 yr. from doing something she really wanted to do. IMO

 

[lstiff]

Thanks, I don't feel so alone now. I try to put myself in others shoes when looking at this case. I was young once, too, but if I received those IE images (at any point in time), I would write him off in a heartbeat.

Yes, I agree with this. There are some females that will hold on forever (my sisters are guilty of this) despite what a man has done. There are others who will be done and move on. I don't think we know for sure which one HE was/is but IMO I would have written him off as well. Not everyone is like that though.

Can anybody help with this? Did Heather receive those disgusting photos of TM & SM that night? And if she did, why on earth would she believe SM was going to leave TM? I can't get it into my head why she waited around an hour after the 1:36am phone call to go meet him - if, in fact, that's what she did...? And like someone on here posted, if she was at home alone, why go to PTL?

That is a fantastic question. WHY would she need to meet him there? She was home alone, no reason he couldn't come to her place if the phone call was to rekindle their romance. Everything I thought about the timeline is now wrong. I need to re think my own timeline and reasons now.

The only reason I could see HE feeling the need to drive there would be to pick someone up who didn't have a car. Otherwise, why wouldn't she just invite him over? If the reason of meeting at PTL was to talk or have sex or get back together, that can be done in person at her apt.

We do know the events of that night happened quickly so I tend to believe reasoning and caution were not high on the priority list for HE that night, IMO. Sure, she knew how she felt or didn't feel about SM and or his wife but not long enough to think things over before making a true decision. As in "sleep on it" type thing.
In the matter of 4 hours (starting when date confirmed drop off at apt and the last phone ping) a lot went on.

 

[magnolia]

Yes, I agree with this. There are some females that will hold on forever (my sisters are guilty of this) despite what a man has done. There are others who will be done and move on. I don't think we know for sure which one HE was/is but IMO I would have written him off as well. Not everyone is like that though.
That is a fantastic question. WHY would she need to meet him there? She was home alone, no reason he couldn't come to her place if the phone call was to rekindle their romance. Everything I thought about the timeline is now wrong. I need to re think my own timeline and reasons now.

The only reason I could see HE feeling the need to drive there would be to pick someone up who didn't have a car. Otherwise, why wouldn't she just invite him over? If the reason of meeting at PTL was to talk or have sex or get back together, that can be done in person at her apt.

We do know the events of that night happened quickly so I tend to believe reasoning and caution were not high on the priority list for HE that night, IMO. Sure, she knew how she felt or didn't feel about SM and or his wife but not long enough to think things over before making a true decision. As in "sleep on it" type thing.
In the matter of 4 hours (starting when date confirmed drop off at apt and the last phone ping) a lot went on.

That is a great question. Heather was home alone. I agree there was nothing on her part that would prevent Sidney from coming there. How about Sidney tho? Perhaps Heather suggested he come there. Sidney gave her a good reason why it would not be wise for him to do that.

Edited to add: I have some thoughts on how the defense might spin Heather's trip to PTL.

 

[PeterThomasFan]

1:35AM - 1:39AM - SM calls Heather from pay phone (call is 4:53 minutes) and makes plans to meet Heather at her apartment.

1:44AM - 1:46AM - Heather calls roommate, BW who is in Florida at the time and says SM just called and is leaving TM. Heather appears upset because she had been trying to get her life back on track after the affair and the harassment by TM. Heather is still at her home when she makes this call (call is 2:20 minutes). BW tries to tell Heather not to meet SM. SM is already on his way to Heather's apartment. SM and TM are still together at this time.

1:53AM - 2:09AM - Heather posts 10 times on Tumblr while she waits for SM to show up at her apartment.

2:29AM - Heather attempts to call the number SM called from (which is a pay phone) several times but, there is no answer.

2:29AM - 3:16AM - TM drops SM off at Heather's apartment [and waits outside in parking lot?]. Heather is killed.

3:16AM - SM uses Heather's phone to call TM (on SM's mobile phone) with no response.

3:17AM - TM enroute to PTL (501 N > 31 W > 544 N > HWY 814 > Mill Pond Rd. > Peachtree Rd.).

3:17AM - Again, SM calls TM using Heather's phone and they have a 4:15 minutes conversation. SM says he'll call her back when he gets to PTL.

3:17AM - SM drives Heather's car to PTL (501 N > Forestbrook Rd. > Dick Pond Rd. > Peachtree Rd.).

3:36AM - A private residence video surveillance captures a vehicle coming from the direction of M's heading towards the boat landing. This camera is 1.7 miles from the M's residence.

3:38AM - SM attempts to call TM 4 times (3:39, 3:39:46 and 3:41) as he approaches PTL to come and get him, that he is almost there.

3:39AM - A business video surveillance a mile from the first camera closer to the landing captures this vehicle still proceeding in the direction of the boat landing.

3:41AM - TM arrives at PTL. Battery is pulled from Heather's phone and Heather's phone data ends at that point.

Kangaroo (10th Ave.) to HE's Apartment - 6 minutes
HE's Apartment to M's - 15 minutes
HE's Apartment to PTL - 20 minutes
M's to PTL - 9 minutes
HE's Apartment to M's to PTL - 24 minutes

The travel times seem to "fit like a glove" IMO.

What was done to Heather's body is still the question. I hate to speculate without much evidence to support a theory (yet). Although for obvious reasons, I think she is hidden well (no pun intended).

IMO, she was not taken to PTL or killed there. PTL was just where her car was dumped and the M's rendezvoused.

Evidence of where SM's cell phone pinged from could possibly support this timeline.

The time on the M's BiLo receipt could also have some bearing.

 

[Madeleine74]

Questions on the new/proposed timeline events:

- What was HE doing for the 20 min after she posted to her Tumbler account?

- What was SM doing that it took him 45 min to kill HE in her apt?

- Where was TM during this 45min? The timeline suggests she waited in the parking lot but the next timeline sequence at 3:17am has her enroute to PTL (501 N > 31 W > 544 N > HWY 814 > Mill Pond Rd. > Peachtree Rd.)

- Any residences in/around or near Heather's apt/condo have cameras?

- How did SM get a dead Heather out to her own car and without anyone seeing anything? Where did he put her body in her car (trunk)? Why didn't cadaver dogs or search dogs 'hit' on Heather's own car if her dead body was in her car during that ride to PTL? Did SM bring a tarp with him over to HE's condo? Was HE's hair found in her own trunk?

- Why didn't TM pick up any of SM's cell phone calls after 3:17am if SM was calling TM several times? How would TM know SM was almost there if they hadn't actually spoken on the 4 attempts to call SM's cell phone that TM allegedly was in control of that night?

- Where is the DNA of SM in HE's vehicle? He must have touched something in the car, even to move the seat backwards so he could drive it. Was he prepared and wearing gloves? Transfer of fibers from his clothes? Shoe prints? Hair? Fingerprints on door handles or trunk lid? Steering wheel? Was he that careful and prepared?

 

[PeterThomasFan]

Questions on the new/proposed timeline events:

- What was HE doing for the 20 min after she posted to her Tumbler account?

Waiting for SM to show up.

- What was SM doing that it took him 45 min to kill HE in her apt?

It just happened sometime between 2:29AM and 3:16PM. TM and SM could have sat in the truck for a little while to "case" the apartment complex. Maybe they waited for another resident to leave the parking lot? SM could have entered her apartment, killed her in 2 minutes time, then left right away.

- Where was TM during this 45min? The timeline suggests she waited in the parking lot but the next timeline sequence has her enroute to PTL (501 N > 31 W > 544 N > HWY 814 > Mill Pond Rd. > Peachtree Rd.)

I am not really accounting for any theory on what they did with Heather's body in this timeline. But, in that time span, there was most certainly time to place her in the truck. So... +/- a few minutes. TM could have waited for 3-4 minutes after SM entered apartment and then left. They then went back for Heather's body (which is possible but, I don't believe). Or TM waited until SM placed Heather's body in the back of truck and then left.

- Any residences in/around or near Heather's apt/condo have cameras?

It says they do on the Apartment Complex website IIRC.

- How did SM get a dead Heather out to her own car? Where did he put her body in her car (trunk)? Why didn't cadaver dogs or search dogs 'hit' on Heather's own car if her dead body was in her car during that ride to PTL? Did SM bring a tarp with him over to HE's condo? Was HE's hair found in her own trunk?

I don't believe SM put Heather in her car. I think they used the truck.

- Why didn't TM pick up any of SM's cell phone calls after 3:17am if SM was calling TM several times? I hate maybes but... Maybe ringer was off? Maybe she didn't have phone in her hand or pocket at the time/she was away from phone for a short period of time? Maybe she was busy doing something else? How would TM know SM was almost there if they hadn't actually spoken on the 4 attempts to call SM's cell phone that TM allegedly was in control of that night? Because that was their plan from the start. Even without phones, they could have stuck to a plan to meet at PTL.

- Where is the DNA of SM in HE's vehicle? LE has not said they do not have DNA from SM in Heather's car. And, even if they do, TM said herself SM and Heather had sex in Heather's car 3 times. So, if that is true, they should very well have DNA in her car. He must have touched something in the car, even to move the seat backwards so he could drive it. LE let TE drive the car away from PTL. What's to say he didn't adjust the seat? That evidence was destroyed IMO. Was he prepared and wearing gloves? I don't see why not. TE wore gloves when he drove the car away from PTL. Transfer of fibers from his clothes? Shoe prints? Hair? Yes, yes, yes, does LE have any is the question? They should also have shoe and tire tracks from PTL but, LE flubbed the initial investigation IMOO!

Please do not consider this the "new/proposed timeline".

Although it was extracted from the "known" timeline of events, I adjusted to fit my opinion only. Take it for what it's worth.

BBM above

 

[Happyshoes]

Didn't LE seem pretty adamant that death occurred at PTL? I also remember that they found evidence there at PTL, then when they searched the home, they found even more that bolstered their case. It does seem like the M's planned this, even tried to make their alibi (IE) seem real. I just don't understand how SM could go along with it. Why not calm TM down instead of going along with this set up (if that's what it was).

 

[PeterThomasFan]

Didn't LE seem pretty adamant that death occurred at PTL? I also remember that they found evidence there at PTL, then when they searched the home, they found even more that bolstered their case. It does seem like the M's planned this, even tried to make their alibi (IE) seem real. I just don't understand how SM could go along with it. Why not calm TM down instead of going along with this set up (if that's what it was).

Yes they do think she was killed at PTL. But they also thought they had DNA from SM's truck.

 

[magnolia]

2:29AM - Heather attempts to call the number SM called from (which is a pay phone) several times but, there is no answer.

Sidney is on the way to the apartment. Why would Heather try and call the payphone knowing Sidney would not be there to answer?

3:17AM - Again, SM calls TM using Heather's phone and they have a 4:15 minutes conversation. SM says he'll call her back when he gets to PTL.

So, while carrying out their murder plan, SM calls TM and they have a casual conversation for 4:15 mins.

 

[PeterThomasFan]

2:29AM - Heather attempts to call the number SM called from (which is a pay phone) several times but, there is no answer.

Sidney is on the way to the apartment. Why would Heather try and call the payphone knowing Sidney would not be there to answer?

Possibly because it was taking SM a long time to get to Heather's apartment. Or, she had reservations about SM coming to her apartment.

It's also possible that the M's were waiting in the parking lot of her apartment for a little bit because there were other residents around. I dunno?

3:17AM - Again, SM calls TM using Heather's phone and they have a 4:15 minutes conversation. SM says he'll call her back when he gets to PTL.

So, while carrying out their murder plan, SM calls TM and they have a casual conversation for 4:15 mins.

I doubt is was a "casual" conversation. SM was probably telling TM that Heather was killed and what their next move was.

I just hate speculating on these conversations and coming up with "maybes" and "what ifs". The fact of the matter is, we don't know for sure if Heather had control of her phone during these calls. And my theory is that she did not. Since her phone was not found and it lost all pings after 3:41AM, it's obvious she did not have control of it. So, it's pretty safe to say someone else could have taken control and used it right after she was killed. And, it's also claimed that SM did not have a phone, so it fits to communicate with each other. Even without phones involved, there was a plan in place.

 

[EmmaRose]

Can anybody help with this? Did Heather receive those disgusting photos of TM & SM that night? And if she did, why on earth would she believe SM was going to leave TM? I can't get it into my head why she waited around an hour after the 1:36am phone call to go meet him - if, in fact, that's what she did...? And like someone on here posted, if she was at home alone, why go to PTL?

Hi Happyshoes, I have wondered over and over why she wouldn't meet SM at her apartment as opposed to PTL.

Here are the possibilities I came up with:

1 Heather seemed unsure how the meeting with SM would go. She chose to meet at PTL because she could have "a way out" and could drive away when she wanted to instead of having to deal with how to get SM to leave her apartment. (Especially since he told her that he was leaving TM. Heather didn't want him thinking he could crash there indefinitely).

2 By this point in time, Heather had received a text from TM saying she had been having SM followed. Heather didn't want TM finding out where she lived. PTL was a safer meeting spot because of its isolation and being able to tell when someone was approaching.

3 BW lived in the River Oaks condo before Heather was invited to share her space. Maybe BW had set up some ground rules, such as no houseguests when Bri was gone and Heather was respecting that. (Especially inviting SM there--it sounds like Bri did not approve of the HE/SM relationship. Certainly she would not want any "drama" happening at her home in regard to problems a love triangle can cause).

Do you guys think any of these is plausible? BTW, I am still undecided as to whether HE actually drove to PTL herself or if someone abandoned her car there. Again I will say that it seems like such a long wait for trial......

 

[magnolia]

Possibly because it was taking SM a long time to get to Heather's apartment. Or, she had reservations about SM coming to her apartment.

It's also possible that the M's were waiting in the parking lot of her apartment for a little bit because there were other residents around. I dunno?



I doubt is was a "casual" conversation. SM was probably telling TM that Heather was killed and what their next move was.

I just hate speculating on these conversations and coming up with "maybes" and "what ifs". The fact of the matter is, we don't know for sure if Heather had control of her phone during these calls. And my theory is that she did not. Since her phone was not found and it lost all pings after 3:41AM, it's obvious she did not have control of it. So, it's pretty safe to say someone else could have taken control and used it right after she was killed. And, it's also claimed that SM did not have a phone, so it fits to communicate with each other. Even without phones involved, there was a plan in place.

BBM- I'm going to assume you mean the text sent to Heather on November 03 (Dad has no phone). It has also been claimed that TM lies. Was this a lie or was she telling the truth? So, she was telling the truth. Sidney had no phone on Nov.03. I don't think we can assume he had no phone on Dec.18. How about the 90+ phone calls ? Didn't the state say these calls were made from SM's phone? How about claims from the defense calls were placed to Sidney from other phones. I find it hard to believe Sidney was without a phone for 47 days.


**Edited to add: Thanks for sharing the timeline PTF. Good job

 

[EmmaRose]

Defense attorneys also were concerned about prosecutors retesting evidence and the trial date set for May 11 being delayed.

“Maybe they need more time, so I don’t know if May 11 is written in stone if they are still waiting on reports,” Truslow said Friday after the hearing. “We are ready to go next week if necessary. I’ll be very curious to see what happens May 11.”


Read more here: http://www.thestate.com/2015/02/02/3964930/opposing-attorneys-in-heather.html#storylink=cpy

What do you think is being retested?? DNA??

 

[magnolia]

Defense attorneys also were concerned about prosecutors retesting evidence and the trial date set for May 11 being delayed.

“Maybe they need more time, so I don’t know if May 11 is written in stone if they are still waiting on reports,” Truslow said Friday after the hearing. “We are ready to go next week if necessary. I’ll be very curious to see what happens May 11.”


Read more here: http://www.thestate.com/2015/02/02/3964930/opposing-attorneys-in-heather.html#storylink=cpy

What do you think is being retested?? DNA??

I believe the state said this is not a DNA case. I will be pleasantly surprised if this case goes to trial on May 11.

 

[EmmaRose]

I believe the state said this is not a DNA case. I will be pleasantly surprised if this case goes to trial on May 11.

I agree that I don't think the case will go to trial as early as May 11th.

As far as the DNA, it is wishful thinking on my part hoping that an earlier DNA sample was deemed inconclusive (thus why prosecution had to claim no DNA evidence at the time of the last bond hearing). Maybe LE is having a more sophisticated test done to determine whose DNA it is. If this is not about DNA, I wonder what is being retested. Anyway, it seems like the state has a ways to go before they are ready to prosecute the Moorers.

 

[magnolia]

I agree that I don't think the case will go to trial as early as May 11th.

As far as the DNA, it is wishful thinking on my part hoping that an earlier DNA sample was deemed inconclusive (thus why prosecution had to claim no DNA evidence at the time of the last bond hearing). Maybe LE is having a more sophisticated test done to determine whose DNA it is. If this is not about DNA, I wonder what is being retested. Anyway, it seems like the state has a ways to go before they are ready to prosecute the Moorers.

I'm thinking Fall on a trial date. I'm hoping the gag order will be lifted and we will be privy to more info. Don't even want to try and guess what evidence they are retesting.

 

[NFYIAMY]

Defense attorneys also were concerned about prosecutors retesting evidence and the trial date set for May 11 being delayed.

“Maybe they need more time, so I don’t know if May 11 is written in stone if they are still waiting on reports,” Truslow said Friday after the hearing. “We are ready to go next week if necessary. I’ll be very curious to see what happens May 11.”


Read more here: http://www.thestate.com/2015/02/02/3964930/opposing-attorneys-in-heather.html#storylink=cpy

What do you think is being retested?? DNA??

It was said by the new solicitor that she is having EVERYTHING re-tested since she will now be the one taking the case forward.