Evidence That is Incompatible With an Accident Theory

[snow_walker]

My reasons for deciding this was not an accident nor an accidental death due to chloroform drugging or suffocation..(which is somewhere between an accident and a culpable homicide)
No one takes a dead body and places duct tape on it, especially if it is leaking fluids.. not in the real world they don't. Handling decomposing flesh is not easy, especially when it is crawling with maggots, as it would have been, and duct tape is very unlikely to stick to it anyway, it would be too.. oily and/or wet ..better to borrow a shovel and pick it up with that and double bag it, shove it all into a laundry bag and discard her in the nearest dumping spot
(and I apologize for being so graphic, but I am tired of hearing this said and biting my tongue because I did not want to say what I just said.. and will never say again)

next is the matter of the heart shaped sticker.. for the reasons just mentioned, that had to have been put there when the child was still alive or .. more likely.. just barely deceased.. no one puts a sticker on a body that is already decomposing.

Finally, even granted that somehow the baby died by accident, no one double bags a treasured childs body in garbage bags and discards them like that.. at the very least they would wrap them up in a favourite blanket, and take them to a beautiful isolated place to bury them, they don't just throw them in the nearest ditch, so to speak.

 

[LisaNY]

It's like this. There is no way that anyone can disprove that it was an accident, unless the autopsy has more info that we are not aware. Thus far what has been presented is quite honestly, circumstantial. Overwhelming and compelling as it is... and I believe it was premeditated by Casey...however, the defense (for now) is going with "she is innocent." If we were in a jury pool and there is any doubt whatsoever between an accident/coverup.....or premeditation....one is going to have to give compelling reasons for each view. Just knowing a lawyer started the thread and wants to know the general publics interest, for either side, (accident or premeditated) makes me a little nervous. The defense can view all of the answers and come up with their reasonings to prepare for their case.

I fully understand what you are stating. However, wouldn't this point of view also apply to all of the posts/threads here on Websleuths. A defense atty could read any thread to get an idea of what the general public may think or how a potential jury pool may interpret any particular piece of evidence or theory. No matter how much we may pick apart and interpret things here, facts are facts, evidence is evidence.
Respectfully, moo

 

[LLH]

Several things come to mind.

Casey never reported Caylee missing. (John Q Public is not this stupid)

The manner in which the body was disposed of (garbage bags and duct tape)

Casey being able to party and smile ( If it were an accident theres NO WAY she would
have been acting normal and going to rent movies.) There is no way a dream team can
explain this away. Even non fatal accidents cause grief to loved ones.

Caseys lack of concern and empathy. Anyone who mentioned Caylee was a HUGE WASTE. She was afraid to sleep in her room with Caylees memory.

The lies the entire family has told. No reason to lie if there has been no wrong done.
Cindys 911 call...and "what have you done !" and "George we lost her, Caylee". Lee's
private and guarded conversations and codes with Casey.

And probably the most damning - to this day there has been no plea for Caylees safe return, no outcry for justice, no demand to find a murderer. And it is too late now, the public realilzed this a long time ago. The defense cannot spin this issue either, it is what it is. The story is right out of the Twilight Zone.

 

[BeanE]

Inconsistent with accident is a specific myspace entry of KC's:

On July 3, Cindy posted on her myspace the entry where she says, among other things, that Caylee is missing.

Approx. 7 days later, KC replied to that entry with the "everyone lies, everyone dies" 'poem'. A part of that was:

“What is given, can be taken away"

"taken away" clearly implies a deliberate act, the deliberate removal of Caylee from Cindy.

I believe this shows consciousness of guilt.

 

[Bluebelle]

Several things come to mind.

Casey never reported Caylee missing. (John Q Public is not this stupid)

The manner in which the body was disposed of (garbage bags and duct tape)

Casey being able to party and smile ( If it were an accident theres NO WAY she would have been acting normal and going to rent movies.) There is no way a dream team can explain this away. Even non fatal accidents cause grief to loved ones.

Caseys lack of concern and empathy. Anyone who mentioned Caylee was a HUGE WASTE. She was afraid to sleep in her room with Caylees memory.

The lies the entire family has told. No reason to lie if there has been no wrong done.

Cindys 911 call...and "what have you done !" and "George we lost her, Caylee".

Lee's private and guarded conversations and codes with Casey.

And probably the most damning - to this day there has been no plea for Caylees safe return, no outcry for justice, no demand to find a murderer. And it is too late now, the public realilzed this a long time ago. The defense cannot spin this issue either, it is what it is. The story is right out of the Twilight Zone.

I completely agree, great post!

 

[EchointheDark]

Inconsistent with accident is a specific myspace entry of KC's:

On July 3, Cindy posted on her myspace the entry where she says, among other things, that Caylee is missing.

Approx. 7 days later, KC replied to that entry with the "everyone lies, everyone dies" 'poem'. A part of that was:

“What is given, can be taken away"

"taken away" clearly implies a deliberate act, the deliberate removal of Caylee from Cindy.

I believe this shows consciousness of guilt.

Also in the same poem is "with great power, comes great consequence" which says (to me) that she had done some sort of KC-cost benefit analysis and decided "the beautiful life" with Caylee dead was worth the BS associated with getting rid of the baby.

And on the other hand, most of the drivel we've seen from KC is ... drivel.

 

[maryaok]

It's say to say, but I think Casey is going to walk away from this. I have a bad feeling about it all. No one wants to believe that a mother could murder their child like she did and then go about her life as if nothing happened. It's is incomprehensable, so even though the jury might suspect otherwise, IMO, they will not be able to commit to the murder 1 theory. At least one will say accident, and that will be all it takes. Sad but true. If there was more forensic evidence (say Caylee was drugged over a period of time) then it might go otherwise.

You know they're going to have experts with years of profiling and psycholgical experience to pick out the jurors, they'll pick at least one mother who cannot wrap her head around a murdering mother. She'll walk just as sure as OJ did.

 

[strach304]

this is going to be a difficult case to get M1. I have a really bad feeling about this case. Like OJ all over again....

This case reminds me more of the Scott Peterson case than any other I have ever followed. They had no cause of death or forensics besides one hair with no death band. With the exception of Scott being a genius in comparison with Casey.

 

[strach304]

Also in the same poem is "with great power, comes great consequence" which says (to me) that she had done some sort of KC-cost benefit analysis and decided "the beautiful life" with Caylee dead was worth the BS associated with getting rid of the baby.

And on the other hand, most of the drivel we've seen from KC is ... drivel.

She quotes music and movies as she did with Spiderman and Batman. We know she pulled the nanny story out of her hat. Certainly borrowing from bits and pieces of other shows/movies. The nanny served the purpose for the pretense of it seeming like she had a job and Caylee was in good care as well as when she wanted to stay over with bf's and go to parties and had to take Caylee with her. Couldn't do that with Tony. I doubt if Casey has ever had an original thought in her life.

 

[tzee]

I may be mistaken but in order to pursue an accident as a defense JB would have to put KC on the stand, that would never happen as her credibility is already shattered by her previously exposed lies to LE. Also, I don't think her own defense team could guard what comes out of her mouth as hers stories change at will. I don't see it happening, I think they will stick with "the nanny did it defense", absud as it is.

 

[FaerieB]

To me, one of the most compelling arguments against the "accident" theory is the fact that the only time we've seen KC shed *real* tears was the day she was indicted, and those were tears for herself, and not for Caylee.

 

[Intermezzo]

Several things come to mind.

Casey never reported Caylee missing. (John Q Public is not this stupid)

The manner in which the body was disposed of (garbage bags and duct tape)

Casey being able to party and smile ( If it were an accident theres NO WAY she would
have been acting normal and going to rent movies.) There is no way a dream team can
explain this away. Even non fatal accidents cause grief to loved ones.

Caseys lack of concern and empathy. Anyone who mentioned Caylee was a HUGE WASTE. She was afraid to sleep in her room with Caylees memory.

The lies the entire family has told. No reason to lie if there has been no wrong done.
Cindys 911 call...and "what have you done !" and "George we lost her, Caylee". Lee's
private and guarded conversations and codes with Casey.

And probably the most damning - to this day there has been no plea for Caylees safe return, no outcry for justice, no demand to find a murderer. And it is too late now, the public realilzed this a long time ago. The defense cannot spin this issue either, it is what it is. The story is right out of the Twilight Zone.

Good Points. :clap:
No one "accidently" duct tapes a child's mouth/face

 

[KenoshaKid]

Nothing irks me more than when people call in on the shows and say well eh I think it was an accident.
Drugging your child to party and then ooops they die is not an accident.
Everyone on the face of this earth knows you dont drug a 2 year old!
.

True enough, but would the sentence be lighter because the intent was not to kill?

 

[EmMomma]

I haven't read this whole thread yet, but my IMMEDIATE thought when I read the title was...

THIRTY ONE DAYS

 

[mibright]

caylee's death was clearly an accident.

Cma was teaching caylee how to mix homemade chloroform when a gust of wind accidentally tore a piece of duct tape off the roll that was sitting there and blew it over to caylee where it accidentally wrapped itself tightly around her mouth & hair, causing her to accidentally fall into the trunk where another strong wind gust accidentally blew a heart sticker onto the duct tape directly over her mouth. Caylee wanted to finish making the chloroform so cma put the fresh batch in the trunk with her but then caylee accidentally crawled into not one but two black garbage bags and then a third white bag before cma realized she couldn't get her out of the trunk with all of those bags on her. Cma was in a hurry to go rent movies with her boyfriend so she accidentally forgot to call 911 for help or tell anyone what had happened. Then after accidentally forgetting caylee was in the trunk for a few days, she decided to take her back to g & c's but accidentally made a wrong turn onto suburban and then by accident left caylee in the woods where she went as a kid, accidentally hiding her under the thick entangled plant-life.

brilliant!

 

[coco puff]

Ok, this is a little out there but... if they claim it was an accident, I hope the state is ready to show that there was no apparent damage to the remains that would indicate a person trying to revive a child. I have read (no link yet) that when you try to revive a child from a drowning, choking, etc it is very easy to break a rid or other bone of the child, especially if you don't know what you are doing and you are frantic and the baby is not responding. Hey, every little bit helps huh?

 

[EmMomma]

Ok, this is a little out there but... if they claim it was an accident, I hope the state is ready to show that there was no apparent damage to the remains that would indicate a person trying to revive a child. I have read (no link yet) that when you try to revive a child from a drowning, choking, etc it is very easy to break a rid or other bone of the child, especially if you don't know what you are doing and you are frantic and the baby is not responding. Hey, every little bit helps huh?

IIRC, Dr. G publicly stated, on the day that the remains were officially identified, that there was no trauma.

Hey, JB...NEXT!!!

 

[Lanie]

Cleaning up afterward implies intent. Also, she was speaking and texting people during the time Caylee was killed. This narrows the time frame considerably for Caylee to have died, Casey to have discovered her, and to get over it. A sociopath is not someone who takes everything in stride, and nothing ever phases them. If this was indeed an accident, Casey would have been caught off guard and had to prepare, but there is no evidence supporting that. Yet, she shows plenty of shock when mommy shows up at the boyfriend's house. Timer 55, IMO, is Casey's countdown to how long until she was backed against the wall about producing Caylee.
I don't think Casey is going to get away with this. Darlie Routier even cut herself up to cover killing her children, to this day there are still people who believed she was framed, and there she sits on death row. IMO, Casey does not have a good grasp on reality, I don't believe she is working with her lawyers so much as being in their way, and IMO, she is going to get a big surprise when the verdict of GUILTY is handed down.
Lanie

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

I might be off but didn't all of these searches occur around the same time? Doing searches for household weapons, neck breaking, missing children, and chloroform around the same day isn't really a coincidence IMO. Also, does anyone know when RM posted that chloroform picture? If it was after KC's search we can definitely rule that one possible defense explination out.

It was only an example...I'm sure they will come up with their own ridiculous reasons as to why what occured when it did.

 

[yolorado]

People whose children drown accidentally call the police and the paramedics or take them to the hospital hoping against hope that someone can revive them. They mourn and have funerals. They don't throw their children away like trash in swamps. Plus, the police are on tape with Casey almost begging her to say that there was an accident. She was dogged and determined to resist their efforts to get her to take an easy way out. The accident train left the station a long, long time ago. This woman has behaved so horribly to her friends and family, to the citizens of Florida, the US and the World, and most especially toward her own baby that she MUST do serious jail time. This was no accident. If it was, she would have said so a LOOOOOONG tiime ago.