Evidence you can't explain

[DeeDee249]

Where the original roll of duct tape and cord went. I recall in one of JR's early interviews, when asked what doors he checked, he mentioned something about going outside the evening of the 25. I always thought he did that to cover his *advertiser censored* if a neighbor saw him doing something unusual (like ditching the cord roll and duct tape). But if that were the case, where the hell did he stash these items that LE could never recover them?

None of the Rs were searched when they left the house that day, including BR. All were wearing winter coats. They also carried overnight bags out of the house as they were going to stay with friends. There was plenty of opportunity to hide small items like the duct tape roll or cord. In addition, there were 2 golf bags in the laundry area right outside the wine cellar door- they can be seen in the crime photos of the door. JR SPECIFICALLY asked Patsy's sister to get his GOLF BAG a day or so after the murder. Now...if your little girl was found assaulted and murdered and YOU were the one who found her, would you be asking for your golf clubs? Besides that- it was December- winter in Colorado is not golf season. Even though they were going to Atlanta, golf should have been the last thing on his mind. The entire contents of the house was to be packed and moved to Atlanta. Why couldn't the golf clubs have waited to be moved with the rest of the house? I am VERY suspicious about why he needed that golf bag.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

None of the Rs were searched when they left the house that day, including BR. All were wearing winter coats. They also carried overnight bags out of the house as they were going to stay with friends. There was plenty of opportunity to hide small items like the duct tape roll or cord. In addition, there were 2 golf bags in the laundry area right outside the wine cellar door- they can be seen in the crime photos of the door. JR SPECIFICALLY asked Patsy's sister to get his GOLF BAG a day or so after the murder. Now...if your little girl was found assaulted and murdered and YOU were the one who found her, would you be asking for your golf clubs? Besides that- it was December- winter in Colorado is not golf season. Even though they were going to Atlanta, golf should have been the last thing on his mind. The entire contents of the house was to be packed and moved to Atlanta. Why couldn't the golf clubs have waited to be moved with the rest of the house? I am VERY suspicious about why he needed that golf bag.

No. But then, I wouldn't be planning on hopping on my private plane to get the hell out of Boulder the very same day either.

Anyway, I guess what really bugs me about the cord and duct tape is that it HAD to have been there (or very near by), so why the hell did LE allow it to slip through their fingers? And why on earth did they allow Pam to come in and clean house? NOTHING should have been removed from an active crime scene! That's just basic police procedure. :banghead:

 

[madeleine]

Golf bag?

way too risky IMO to leave all the incriminating evidence in the house even if "hidden" in a golf bag...especially JB's panties stained with blood....even an amateur would have known police might take into evidence everything found in the basement...

makes me wonder....did JR get out that morning through the basement window to get rid of all this stuff when realizing the cops won't leave???

 

[madeleine]

Where the original roll of duct tape and cord went. I recall in one of JR's early interviews, when asked what doors he checked, he mentioned something about going outside the evening of the 25. I always thought he did that to cover his *advertiser censored* if a neighbor saw him doing something unusual (like ditching the cord roll and duct tape). But if that were the case, where the hell did he stash these items that LE could never recover them?

too bad LE didn't search the trash bins in the neighborhood...and too bad they didn't use the dogs!maybe they found have found the cloth that was used to wipe JB off,maybe they would have found the bloody panties!

 

[Sandstorm]

she also referenced OJ Simpson! two :facepalm: comparisons, considering their situation: one definitely guilty of killing and one widely regarded as guilty of killing

for those who maybe haven't seen it (guests), the link to an analysis of the CNN interview:

http://.blogspot.com/2012/09/the-ramsey-interview-on-cnn.html

Thank you, Gramcracker, for the interview analysis link.
I found the analysis interesting and very well done.

It is absolutely unthinkable that the Ramseys went on TV and said what they did with JonBenet murdered only 5 days prior. IMO

If any of you have not read the link, please do.
It is long but well worth the time.

http://.blogspot.com/2012/09/the-ramsey-interview-on-cnn.html

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

For example, the ransom note troubled me for a long time. I am RDI but I couldn't understand why they would write it.

IMO.

"They" didn't write it, Patsy did and she wrote it to herself to turn a deliberate act ending the life of her daughter into a kidnapping (in her mind) with her daughter still alive. That makes what she did a psychotic fantasy.

 

[Steely Dan]

IIRC, Kolar's book ends with talking about how the crime of murder never runs out of time to be charged, but the crime of helping to cover it up does. He then says he thinks there will be no charges in the case. I'm guessing he believes that PR did it with the others help. JMO

 

[DeeDee249]

No. But then, I wouldn't be planning on hopping on my private plane to get the hell out of Boulder the very same day either.

Anyway, I guess what really bugs me about the cord and duct tape is that it HAD to have been there (or very near by), so why the hell did LE allow it to slip through their fingers? And why on earth did they allow Pam to come in and clean house? NOTHING should have been removed from an active crime scene! That's just basic police procedure. :banghead:

Yes it is- one of many that were ignored or not properly done. LE never really had time to search the house properly. The house was turned over to the family way too soon. Like her body- the DA said the police were trying to hold her body for "ransom" till the parents talked to them when doing so would have given the coroner more time to test, say, the odd marks on her to determine what caused them. But then, the DA really didn't want the house or JB's body looked at TOO closely.
Aunt P should never have been allowed to go through the house- that was such a flagrant lapse of proper protocol that it offends reason. Not only did they let her in, they KNEW it was wrong because they gave her a police jacket to wear so as "not to attract attention" (so they said). I have read conflicting accounts as to whether police actually accompanied her in her traipse through the house. But I think they waited outside. It is said she filled 3 police cruisers.

 

[Sandstorm]

IIRC, Kolar's book ends with talking about how the crime of murder never runs out of time to be charged, but the crime of helping to cover it up does. He then says he thinks there will be no charges in the case. I'm guessing he believes that PR did it with the others help. JMO

Steely Dan,
I just finished Kolar's book and funny thing is, I got the distinct impression that Kolar was leading me (the reader) to conclude that Burke murdered JonBenet and that Patsy and John covered it up with the staging. IMO

Kolar concludes the book with 'who had the motive and opportunity?'.
Kolar also focuses on Burke's aberrant verbal and non-verbal behavior during the taped interviews with his psychiatrist, the feces smearing, plus how the parents shielded him from the police.

Burke, the sideline son, may have gotten fed up with all the attention JB received: Mama, spotlights, and trophies. IMO

I am currently reading Steve Thomas' book - wow! what a mess the Boulder jurisprudence was which made the perfect playground for Team Ramsey to trapse all over the truth with propaganda, lies, attorneys, and tons of money. IMO
I am getting the impression that Steve Thomas is pointing to Patsy as the murderer.

However, Kolar wrote his book based on 15 years of research on the JonBenet case, whereas Thomas wrote his book within a couple years of resigning from the case.

At least we can narrow the murderer down to one of three, if nothing else! IMO

 

[Landonsmom02]

Does anyone know why the childrens medical records were never subpoena by LE and the great doctor forced to turn them in. Being a nurse and the doctor I work with, I asked him this question yesterday. I understand hippa, but in a criminal investigation and homicide case, he can not legally hold them hostage.......can he? Yet I live in NC and the law is different here that in CO.TIA

 

[DeeDee249]

Does anyone know why the childrens medical records were never subpoena by LE and the great doctor forced to turn them in. Being a nurse and the doctor I work with, I asked him this question yesterday. I understand hippa, but in a criminal investigation and homicide case, he can not legally hold them hostage.......can he? Yet I live in NC and the law is different here that in CO.TIA

Yes- easy answer: They were never subpoenaed because the DA (AH) refused to issue a warrant to obtain them. He wanted police to "ask" for them, which of course they were denied. Had the school nurse or the pediatrician been subpoenaed, they would have had to turn the records over to police or face obstruction of justice or contempt charges.
Murder and sexual assault of a child are Federal crimes, I believe, and the law would be the same in any State.

 

[AnaTeresa]

Yes- easy answer: They were never subpoenaed because the DA (AH) refused to issue a warrant to obtain them. He wanted police to "ask" for them, which of course they were denied. Had the school nurse or the pediatrician been subpoenaed, they would have had to turn the records over to police or face obstruction of justice or contempt charges.
Murder and sexual assault of a child are Federal crimes, I believe, and the law would be the same in any State.

My experience with medical records is that usually, we need not only a subpoena but an ex parte order from the judge ordering the production. Likely, the DA refused to subpoena them - but it's possible the DA went to a/the judge and was denied.

 

[Landonsmom02]

Yes- easy answer: They were never subpoenaed because the DA (AH) refused to issue a warrant to obtain them. He wanted police to "ask" for them, which of course they were denied. Had the school nurse or the pediatrician been subpoenaed, they would have had to turn the records over to police or face obstruction of justice or contempt charges.
Murder and sexual assault of a child are Federal crimes, I believe, and the law would be the same in any State.

Thanks for your reply. It makes me soooooo mad that AH bent over backwards for the Ramseys!

 

[Tawny]

I think most (not all) of the RN was dictated by JR and transcribed by PR. She took a little creative liberty though.

I think PR wasn't supposed to call 911 YET but she jumped the gun.

The golf bag stands out to me like a sore thumb. Seriously? Even IF he intended to golf in Atlanta (who would? whatever let's say he did), you can rent clubs.

To me, the fact that they would even consider removing things from the house, which is now a crime scene, says everything. They wanted to compromise everything they could in that house every single chance they got.

All JMO

 

[wengr]

The golf bag stands out to me like a sore thumb. Seriously? Even IF he intended to golf in Atlanta (who would? whatever let's say he did), you can rent clubs.

Was JR, in reality or in his own mind a serious golfer? It would not surprise me if JR had high end clubs, and would not be satisfied with rentals.

To me, the fact that they would even consider removing things from the house, which is now a crime scene, says everything. They wanted to compromise everything they could in that house every single chance they got.

All JMO

ITA. Always trying to obfuscate instead of illuminate.

 

[Tawny]

Was JR, in reality or in his own mind a serious golfer? It would not surprise me if JR had high end clubs, and would not be satisfied with rentals.

RSBM Oh I'm sure he thought he was the greatest thing to ever swing a club :floorlaugh:

 

[Mountain_Kat]

JBR's coat found in the car. We can assume that JR lied when he said he carried JBR into the house, laid her on the bed and took off her coat and shoes, based on where those 2 items were later located. What I don't "get" is why her coat was in the car in the first damned place. One would assume that on a snowy night, the Ramsey's would dress JBR in her coat before heading from the White's house to their car. One would also assume the Ramsey's employed seat belts for their children when riding in the car. IF those assumptions are correct, then how, when and why was JBR's coat removed in the car? If she wore it into the house (which seems highly unlikely, imo), then how the heck did it make it's way back to the car?

Does anyone know if the White's were ever asked if they observed JBR wearing the coat when the Ramsey's left the party?

 

[tweezybird]

JBR's coat found in the car. We can assume that JR lied when he said he carried JBR into the house, laid her on the bed and took off her coat and shoes, based on where those 2 items were later located. What I don't "get" is why her coat was in the car in the first damned place. One would assume that on a snowy night, the Ramsey's would dress JBR in her coat before heading from the White's house to their car. One would also assume the Ramsey's employed seat belts for their children when riding in the car. IF those assumptions are correct, then how, when and why was JBR's coat removed in the car? If she wore it into the house (which seems highly unlikely, imo), then how the heck did it make it's way back to the car?

Does anyone know if the White's were ever asked if they observed JBR wearing the coat when the Ramsey's left the party?

That's the first I've heard of JB's coat being found in the car. Where can I find the source for that info?
Thanks,

 

[Mountain_Kat]

It's in Patsy's 1998 interview with Haney.

23 TOM HANEY: In the garage there, the garage

24 door itself.

25 PATSY RAMSEY: The big one here.

0339

1 TOM HANEY: Yeah. Was that down in the

2 morning?

3 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.

4 TOM HANEY: Do you remember closing it when

5 you got home that night, or did John?

6 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't remember specifically

7 that. We usually came in, closed the door, hit the

8 button.

9 TOM HANEY: Pretty much routine?

10 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.


11 TOM HANEY: Photo 63.

12 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh.

13 TRIP DEMUTH: Which vehicle did you take to

14 the lake, was that the white Jaquar, is that what that

15 is?

16 PATSY RAMSEYInaudible). Yeah, I'm almost

17 sure. Yeah, I think it is. And there is JonBenet's

18 coat back there.

19 TRIP DEMUTH: Is that the coat she wore that

20 night?

21 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah. I think so.

 

[Mama2JML]

JBR's coat found in the car. We can assume that JR lied when he said he carried JBR into the house, laid her on the bed and took off her coat and shoes, based on where those 2 items were later located. What I don't "get" is why her coat was in the car in the first damned place. One would assume that on a snowy night, the Ramsey's would dress JBR in her coat before heading from the White's house to their car. One would also assume the Ramsey's employed seat belts for their children when riding in the car. IF those assumptions are correct, then how, when and why was JBR's coat removed in the car? If she wore it into the house (which seems highly unlikely, imo), then how the heck did it make it's way back to the car?

Does anyone know if the White's were ever asked if they observed JBR wearing the coat when the Ramsey's left the party?

They made some stops on the way home, so the car probably got pretty warm. Maybe JonBenet took her coat off...