Family Investigative team

[Just-a-Guy]

I think there are different perspectives on this board and that's a great thing. As far as how I approach these cases, I do so from the angle of a detective, a Sherlock Holmes type of attitude, and put everything under a microscope. A lot of my posts will reflect this, such as maps, video breakdowns, statements, etc. From these items I try to develop a theory that makes sense. Ultimately, I am seeking to answer the question "Who done it?" Sherlock Holmes came up with the answer to that question after examinations of the crime scene and the ensuing investigation, early on, just as real life detectives do.

From everything we've learned, all clearly illustrated in this forum, I am convinced the answer to the question "Who done it?" will include Deborah Bradley as part of that answer.

If this turns out to be incorrect, I will pick another hobby, because my skills clearly suck to be this confident of who is involved when it turns out not to be the case. I will find another hobby I can be successful at. MOO.

Um...please take this in the spirit in which it is offered...as a friendly comment.

There's way too much ego in the above sentiment. No professional detective would place their "career" on the line like that, based on one assessment of one case (or even of many). Anyone can be wrong. The key is, to learn, constantly, from mistakes, and from successes. And from randomness.

We may not always agree on conclusions, or approaches. And I think I see at times a little more "confidence" here than even a seasoned professional should display (and I'm guilty of that myself). But we should all be able to contribute and offer checks and balances and ideas and suggestions and theories...and all benefit. And overall, there sometimes may emerge some form of "truth". But not always.

Long way of saying, don't be so hard on yourself. This case is a tough one, period. Anyone could be wrong. Anyone.

 

[tiredblondy]

I hope we can agree to disagree on this. I would deal with it. If my child were missing I never would take a break from finding her, never make deals with networks, never hide out in my house, I would be involved. I would know I would be first suspect and the first thing i would say to the police would be that I did know this and to please question away. There was a reason they kept mom there as long as they did. They dont usually keep someone in questioning that long without a reason but yes, I am sorry I would deal with it.
On that note, the only reason to me the police may have tunnel vision at this point in time is because of the way the parents have acted. NOT PROACTIVE at all, like I said, if it werent for these sites I would have not only forgotten about this child, because its barely on the news, but I wouldnt remember what she looked like. Hence my big problem with the parents.. They should be on every single news channel holding up pictures of their daughter and by name asking for Lisa's safe return. They havent done that once. NOT ONCE have they held a picture up and said, please whoever has our daughter Lisa, please bring her home to us. We need to have Lisa home. Here is a picture of Lisa, we miss her, please bring Lisa home.. Personalize your child DB and LI. Thats they way its done. Get on every single channel, every radio show, every thing you can think of, newspapers etc.. Show that child, speak about her, make a human to whoever might have taken her (if someone did) and expect the police to want to clear you. JMO

Me too and Mark Klaas has been through it and has never changed his mind nor Jessica Lunsford's dad.

 

[Kamille]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the parents were only questioned on one day, the day after Lisa was reported missing, which was a Tuesday.

At the time, LE had issued a very rare amber alert the and seemed to believe that Lisa was the victim of a very rare stranger abduction. After spending 11 hours with the parents on Tuesday, that's when it appears that things started to shift.

We've all seen the interviews, the inconsistencies, the babble that makes no sense, the strange stoic behaviour of JI. The on and off tears of DB. Imagine what LE were dealing with that day during their interrogations. I don't know how they could have gotten a coherent timeline out of either of them. And of course if it is true that DB failed a lie detector "miserably"....well I just don't see where there were "hours and hours" of time for LE to hound her about her doing something to Lisa. I'm sure that line of interrogation did start after the failed poly, but they only had her in there for 11 hours total, including the poly so how long did they really grill her?

So it was JI who requested the break after those 11 hours. And I don't believe they ever returned to speak with LE on Wednesday. And there was a "heated" discussion with them on Thursday which prompted the press release that they were no longer co-operating. Well if LE had been trying to get them back for more questioning since Wednesday, and they were still refusing on Thursday, then I can see why LE felt they were no co-operating. At what point was their self imposed break from LE questioning going to end?

There was a missing child out there, time was of the essence and the parents were dodging LE questioning. But apparently they did have time during those days to make a media deal.

So I'm not sure I believe what I'm hearing now about how the big bad LE officers were so mean to poor little DB. I hope they realize that those 11 hours were likely taped when they're throwing out these accusations.

MOO

 

[LaLaw2000]

I would bet a C-Note that LE did not question the parents every second of those hours at the station.

They would have had bathroom breaks, stretch breaks, food if they wanted it, and so on.

If the honest truth were known, Ms. DB would have to eat her words about this, IMO.

If my baby or child were missing, if I could not be out searching then there is no place I'd rather be than at the Police Station. That would be the place to find out any information, IMO.

I think LE has done a great job here, and I applaud them.

MOO

 

[eileenhawkeye]

If Lisa is found, would that end the circus? The longer she's missing, the longer the circus goes on for, the bigger the case gets, and the more coverage the (possible) trial gets? Right?

 

[Kat]

LE has to clear the last known person to see a missing child. They usually focus a lot of energy there until they can completely clear the last known person. Just what we see in almost every case. JMHO.

Marc Klaas always relates this when he talks about when his daughter Polly was abducted and murdered. That parents (or last known person) have to be extensively interviewed and cleared. If they aren't cleared then they have to stay on the table as possible suspects. JMHO.

It is my understanding that LE doesn't just focus on one aspect of an investigation at a time. While they have detectives working to clear parents they also have other personnel who branch outwards and look for missing child (alive as well as deceased). JMHO and what we've seen on so many other cases.

Now, Mr. Klaas said to LE pretty much to the effect "I'll do anything to clear my name so we can find Polly". But Mr. Klaas knew that they needed to clear him. Some parents don't, they might perceive the extended questioning about themselves or alleged gaps in timeline to be a personal attack and therefore obtain legal representation or feel that their child isn't being sought but rather the focus is on them alone. (<-----just speculation)

If this family feels they need outside help in locating Lisa---then fine. Get it and use it. Find her.

From what I've seen in the media and on our threads about media and searches the local LE is pulling out all stops to locate Lisa. I hope and pray they find her soon.

all JMHO.

 

[cachmo]

If Lisa is found, would that end the circus? The longer she's missing, the longer the circus goes on for, the bigger the case gets, and the more coverage the (possible) trial gets? Right?

ughhhhh yes and that is so wrong on so many levels. I pray they find this sweet Pumpkin Pie Today!!!

 

[Mountain_Kat]

If that's the case several of us are going to be eating Crow Pot Roast...You're welcome to join us!! :blowkiss:

Well, I might have to eat only 1/2 a crow roast, because I'm really starting to believe BOTH the parents are lying.

 

[SmoothOperator]

I am fine to agree to disagree.. IMO no matter what parents do when there is a missing child case, no matter which avenue taken they are damned by a certain percentage of individuals no matter, either way.. There is the same overly critical, judging made on the parents either way.. They are literally in every sense of the word damned if they do, damned if they don't.. IMO the criticisms are waged and cruelly spewed all upon the innocent, bereft, devastated, grief stricken parents as well as family members with never a second thought of the added pain a d anguish heaved upon already broken individuals with many and much of the cruel judgements that are carelessly thrown about.. Never stopping to think it could be you or I in the nightmare that these poor souls are currently in.. And lest anyone think it could not be them.. I'd warn never should anyone believe that fantasy because it just as easily could be you or I in a simiLar nightmare at this very time tomorrow.. No one knows what lies ahead in our coming hours and days of each of our lives and IMO it's only by the grace of God that it's not you or I in this nightmare at this very moment!!

I know that when found to be living this type nightmare without a shadow of a doubt no one would be doing EVERYTHING RIGHT, ATLEAST not by the public's book.. We'd find out all too quickly just how painful the judgemental words, accusations, and criticisms were on top of the ultimate anguish of not having your child tucked safely in their bed that night.. Knowing in your heart the abductor and killer is doing God knows what with your precious baby.. I have a very strong intuition the harsh words "Deal with it" would NOT be what you're feeling!

So, it matters not what these parents or any other parents actually do, say, express or don't do, don't say, or don't express.. The same critics will have the same damnation for the parents regardless..

Jmo

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

I am fine to agree to disagree.. IMO no matter what parents do when there is a missing child case, no matter which avenue taken they are damned by a certain percentage of individuals no matter, either way.. There is the same overly critical, judging made on the parents either way.. They are literally in every sense of the word damned if they do, damned if they don't.. IMO the criticisms are waged and cruelly spewed all upon the innocent, bereft, devastated, grief stricken parents as well as family members with never a second thought of the added pain a d anguish heaved upon already broken individuals with many and much of the cruel judgements that are carelessly thrown about.. Never stopping to think it could be you or I in the nightmare that these poor souls are currently in.. And lest anyone think it could not be them.. I'd warn never should anyone believe that fantasy because it just as easily could be you or I in a simiLar nightmare at this very time tomorrow.. No one knows what lies ahead in our coming hours and days of each of our lives and IMO it's only by the grace of God that it's not you or I in this nightmare at this very moment!!

I know that when found to be living this type nightmare without a shadow of a doubt no one would be doing EVERYTHING RIGHT, ATLEAST not by the public's book.. We'd find out all too quickly just how painful the judgemental words, accusations, and criticisms were on top of the ultimate anguish of not having your child tucked safely in their bed that night.. Knowing in your heart the abductor and killer is doing God knows what with your precious baby.. I have a very strong intuition the harsh words "Deal with it" would NOT be what you're feeling!

So, it matters not what these parents or any other parents actually do, say, express or don't do, don't say, or don't express.. The same critics will have the same damnation for the parents regardless..

Jmo

JMO, MOO, subject to change.

I think that part of the reason for the "darned if you don't, danged if you do" thing is because IMO these are very complex situations, by which I mean that there are a lot of variables that determine the "correct" behavior (i.e., one that gets a good result) of the parents. I think that Marc Klaas gives wise guidance, but an example of what I'm thinking of is that a given appeal will affect different abductors differently depending on the individual's motivation for the crime. Eg., one might be moved by repeated impassioned pleas to return the child with an emphasis on how the family hurts without her, whereas another may take a sick delight in hearing how much pain he has caused, and yet another might become increasingly agitated and afraid of being caught. This is just one example.

When I read thru th threads, it seems like many of us posters are looking at the parents thru different lenses and saying "they should..." or "I would..." based on the different views. In other words, we don't all have the same variables in mind when we try to understand the parent's behavior. :twocents:

 

[In da Middle]

I will stand by my previous statements that if this were my child missing then I wouldnt care how long they questioned me. Keep me for 24 hours if you want but please continue to look for my kid. \

SBM The first day this happened people here were already saying they would be out in the media pleading for their child when in reality they were voluntarily sitting with LE for hours and hours being told they caused it. The next day (the first day they were available) they were out pleading for her and a lot of people still were not pleased. These people just can't seem to win with some.

 

[tlcya]

Bringing the conversation back to the topic at hand, I think these lawyers (if they indeed are now involved) were brought in by the same deep pocketed anonymous benefactor as B.S.

I am very curious as to who the anonymous benefactor is because I still am very concerned it is a particular network. If that is the case, I am seeing a very disturbing trend developing. Very disturbing.

I have real concerns that a family that has felt the tide of public opinion turn is grasping at help being offered and it (that help) may not have theirs OR Lisa's best interest at heart.

 

[tlcya]

What happens if the person or entity that pays the bills interests suddenly diverge from the "clients", the parents?

I just think this is a train wreck waiting to happen.

 

[In da Middle]

At the time, LE had issued a very rare amber alert the and seemed to believe that Lisa was the victim of a very rare stranger abduction. After spending 11 hours with the parents on Tuesday, that's when it appears that things started to shift.



MOO

Just to clarify this section by itself. The Amber Alert was only issued for 12 hours from the very start by design. That morning it was mentioned by local media it would only run 12 hours unless they had more information with which to extend it. That is exactly what happened.

 

[Just-a-Guy]

What happens if the person or entity that pays the bills interests suddenly diverge from the "clients", the parents?

I just think this is a train wreck waiting to happen.

This is a good question. "Technically" speaking, the question of the attorney-client relationship is separate from the question of who pays the attorney. Happens all the time that someone with an indemnification obligation (including for example an insurance company) pays the attorney, but the client is a separate party (eg, the insured). And the privilege remains with the client and the party paying doesn't necessarily have access to the attorney at the same level. Or the right to direct the attorney. And the attorney, though paid by one person, may have to be loyal to another (although in reality this can be a ...shall we say, complicated situation).

Here, it's not clear who the "client" even is. So it's not clear where the legally mandated loyalties will fall. But suffice to say, that question is not necessarily dictated by who pays the bill.

 

[tlcya]

This is a good question. "Technically" speaking, the question of the attorney-client relationship is separate from the question of who pays the attorney. Happens all the time that someone with an indemnification obligation (including for example an insurance company) pays the attorney, but the client is a separate party (eg, the insured). And the privilege remains with the client and the party paying doesn't necessarily have access to the attorney at the same level. Or the right to direct the attorney. And the attorney, though paid by one person, may have to be loyal to another (although in reality this can be a ...shall we say, complicated situation).

Here, it's not clear who the "client" even is. So it's not clear where the legally mandated loyalties will fall. But suffice to say, that question is not necessarily dictated by who pays the bill.

BBM My point exactly. Without knowing who is paying the bill and who is the "client" in this rather unorthodox situation, this could be a very real concern.

Who exactly is this "investigative team" which apparently includes attorneys accountable to and whose interests are they really there representing? That is my concern in a nutshell.

Is this team representing the person or entity that hired them or the parents? Se what I mean? Without knowing that there is really no way to discern if a serious conflict exists. And I get the feeling this family is not savvy enough to see the potential pitfall that may exist with all this wonderful "help"

 

[Kamille]

Just to clarify this section by itself. The Amber Alert was only issued for 12 hours from the very start by design. That morning it was mentioned by local media it would only run 12 hours unless they had more information with which to extend it. That is exactly what happened.

Yes but it is rare to issue any Amber Alert with absolutely nothing to go on other than a picture and last known location of the child. Lisa and her parents were very fortunate that this was done for them. I wasn't suggesting that LE ended it because of their interviews with the parents, we knew that was going to happen after 12hrs without more info, I was just indicating that LE were preparing for an abduction scenario at the beginning and somehow that changed.

The parent's stopped co-operating after 11hrs of questioning and struck deals with the media which has now somehow morphed into an "investigative team" of their own.

Is that because their own team won't force them to answer the tough questions and clear up discrepancies or were these people really being forced into a false confession by their own local police? What is this team being assembled to actually do for Lisa?

MOO

 

[SmoothOperator]

I understand and share your concern tlcox.. While I would desperately feel the need to have an ATTY helping me to navigate through this difficult process of finding my child, as well as how to approach the situation of the same officers heading up the search for my child are telling me that it is I, her mother that has murdered her.. But my fear in this particular situation is that the parents, specifically mom is grasping for the much needed help being offered her without knowing(and I'm certain at this time not caring either) what are the motives here for this generosity "seeming" to be bestowed on her.. KWIM??

Because while I'm not certain what is your opinion on this anonymous backer, it's Attys, and handlers that come along with them but I have a very sick in the pit of my stomach feeling that slugs and leeches have found a new, not only "money maker", but just as important if not more a new "fame maker" by latching on to desperate parents at a time when they will look to anyone or anything to help them find their child, or to help them finagle their way out of being found guilty(if we're talking Casey Anthony type cases).. Either way their are very desperate people that are being latched onto and it's not for the reasons of finding their missing child, Lisa in this case.. That's the last on their list of priorities is finding the child.. Their priorities are exploit, create an even more sensational circus atmosphere, building the case up to extraordinary proportions media wise, all the while continuing to feed the pariah that are fueling the fame/money-maker scheme.. All with precious Lisa and her loved one's are left in the wake of destruction and are just one of the multitude of casualties that will be sacrificed, deserted, and forgotten along the way..

And Lord have mercy if one of these very type individuals himself, Mr. Leonard Padilla is calling this spade a spade.. Well he'd certainly be someone who knows..

I pray I'm wrong and their is some kind hearted, giving soul that's good pure motives of Lisa's well being as their priority and motive for becoming involved.. Sadly I know all too well their few and far between and with what's transformed from these missing children cases into million dollar businesses I'm just very leery of whats behind the money, Attys, and handlers here for Lisa..

 

[denalves]

My brother Christopher was kidnapped from his crib in the middle of the night 25 years ago. The circumstances around Lisa's disappearance and my brothers are eerily similiar. My Mom too failed the polygraph. LE failed my brother miserably because they formed tunnel vision and thought it just had to be my Mom and didn't look at the person who was right under their thumb. It hindered the investigation and my Mom did all of her investigating over the years. I slept in the next room over and was 15 years old. My Dad was in the same bed with my mom (water bed at that). Anyhow, I know from personal experience after my brother was kidnapped my Mom couldn't eat, could barely function. My parents were in shock. I remember another family who had their baby taken by someone who had answered an ad they put out for a babysitter and we went to help them the week of the kidnapping and she too was in shock. They did find her baby a couple days later. Both my mom and Cora Abbott (the other mom who had her baby kidnapped) used the words "I need her." and my Mom said "I need him very much". in their pleas. DB also used the words "We need her." The pleas are just a few sentences, but all very similar.

My family hired private investigators (spent thousands of dollars), and it was a big mistake, but you are desperate for help. My family is there for the Irwins to help guide them or be a resource. www.findchristopher.com

 

[denalves]

My family has experienced this firsthand and my gut feeling is this investigator is an opportunist. Has he ever investigated a missing child case before?