Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #1

[SophieRose]

Will someone please tell me the name of the insurance company that is going to cover a deceased person? I want to sign up.

I'm thinking perhaps when the insurance company was contacted by the family, they were asked if they would cover care for a person needing extended care, and they agreed. If this is a large insurance company, they may not have known the entire story. Again, what insurance does this family have?

Since the family doesn't believe she's dead or suffered brain death, they will not refer to her that way. But certainly the hospital is in contact with the insurance company.

 

[seattlechiquita]

I can't believe this is happening. :banghead:

Children's hospital has live patients they have to care for. Jahi is dead. As horrible and tragic and unexpected, she is gone.

 

[seattlechiquita]

Since the family doesn't believe she's dead or suffered brain death, they will not refer to her that way. But certainly the hospital is in contact with the insurance company.

I am sure they are, but HIPPA is such a noodle soup of crazy regulations that I doubt we will hear from the insurance company. Like Trino said though, I want to know which company covers deceased people, so I can sell them the 520 bridge here in Seattle.

 

[ChristYTN]

Thank you Donjeta...I have not followed this from the beginning, as I really thought it would be over quickly.
Apparently not.

Sad her family is really that detached from the reality of the situation.

She's not in a coma...she's not unconscious....she is gone.
Brain dead is gone.



Sent from my HTC Flyer P510e using Tapatalk HD

 

[Donjeta]

Will someone please tell me the name of the insurance company that is going to cover a deceased person? I want to sign up.

I'm thinking perhaps when the insurance company was contacted by the family, they were asked if they would cover care for a person needing extended care, and they agreed. If this is a large insurance company, they may not have known the entire story. Again, what insurance does this family have?

I would never want to sign up with a company that covers continued care for dead people. Lots of costs with no expected health benefits -> expensive insurance.

 

[pukasonqo2]

Ages ago when my DD was in the NICU there was a similar situation w a braindead baby, the family refused to accept the doctors' recommendation to stop the ventilator and allow nature to take its course. I only knew about it because the mother told me (nurses do not discuss cases w other patients), she was furious w the doctors and their suggestion the baby was braindead. No idea what the outcome was as i got caught in mi own drama but yup, is can be hard for families to accept that maybe all possibilities are exhausted and is time to let the loved one go...

 

[SophieRose]

http://www.contracostatimes.com/new...spital-oakland-agrees-release-jahi-conditions

About the facility in Northern California

As a result of the uncertainty, the family was unable to hold onto the facility's last available bed, according to their attorney. On Friday, the family said that another facility, in North Hollywood, was prepared to take the girl in, though they would also require surgical preparations.

 

[seattlechiquita]

This whole thing is giving me a headache. I need to step away from the keyboard.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

Jahi was legally declared dead on Dec. 12th. A death certificate most likely has been issued. Legally the coroner would be the one to take possession of her body. The family attorney got the judge to delay the removal of the ventilator and therefore the removal of Jahi's body by the coroner until the 30th. Legally the hospital has to abide by the judges ruling until the 30th at which time either the ventilator will be removed and the coroner will be in possession of her body or the family attorney will get a court order for other action.

http://biotech.law.lsu.edu/Books/lbb/x553.htm

California statute brain death

http://www.braindeath.org/law/california.htm

I don't think another company, nor another facility could take a person that has legally been declared dead and has a death certificate, unless there is some kind of court order stating so. I may be wrong but this is what I think the hospital is relaying in it's letter.

 

[otto]

Teen's mom: Jahi is dead only if her heart stops

Video of the mother and uncle on today's The Lead with Jake Tapper.

It's simple then. Unplug the machine and see if her heart continues to beat. If that's what the famiy wants, that's what they should have.

 

[otto]

I don't understand why Children's is fighting the move, other than they don't want to place the G-Tube and Trach. She'd be out of their hands-problem solved. If the family has hope that she will recover longer term- noone should take that away from them. Especially, when there is a place for her to go and funding.

I think they are refusing to perform surgery on a dead person. That seems quite reasonable. They have agreed to release her, but they want details about transportation and where she will be taken. That makes sense ... probably a legal requirement.

 

[otto]

It's my opine that the lawyer is running his mouth. Who is he to say that she is not dead. It's lawyer talk, that all. jmo idk

The lawyer is most likely positioning himself for a large commission in a wrongful death lawsuit.

 

[SwampMama]

This whole case has just gone further than it ever should have. It is clear that Jahi's family is in severe denial and they probably need serious counseling to deal with the denial and guilt that is felt by the mom and her family. But that is their issue that needs to be treated. there is nothing that the medical world can do to to Jahi to help the family with their issues. It is the FAMILY that needs treatment, not Jahi.

To me, it seems that it might be cruel to allow this to continue on. It is obvious that Jahi's mother will not accept Jahi's death until the vent is removed and her heart stops. Even then, she may expect that Jahi can come back, like the story of Lazarus in the bible.

I can respect religious beliefs and faith but that does not mean that all beliefs are protected by law. The bible condones people being stoned and that people who harm children would be better off with a millstone around their neck, but the courts are NOT going to allow that.

I don't see the hospital's letter as passive-aggressive but more that they are ready for this to be done with. They have their hands tied about HIPPA and what they can say, while Jahi's family and lawyer are free to say whatever they want about the hospital and staff. They are allowed to broadcast information that simply isn't true (such as Jahi was perfectly healthy).

Based upon their complete denial of Jahi's brain death, it puts serious doubts on the rest of the things they say, leading me to conclude that some serious exaggerations or outright untruths have been stated as fact. So the hospital's letter seems logical to me. they have put the ball (so to speak) back on the parents.

The family and lawyer say they have a place? Great, inform the hospital of the plan and it can be arranged immediately that Jahi is transferred. The hospital is right to refuse to do anymore for Jahi but allow her to be released, pending approval of a facility, the coroner, etc. So the hospital asked for that info and now the family says the nursing home has backed out. I can't imagine any facility that would accept Jahi, seeing as she is dead and hospital/facility have few enough beds and resources as it is. Who would want their facility in this mess and to deal with such a difficult family who refuses to see reality.

I think it is time to put an end to this so that families in the future are do not hold out hopes for their brain dead loved ones and insist that they too be kept on life support. Now that this has happened, there will no doubt be other families in denial who refuse to accept brain death and will threaten to challenge hospital just like Jahi's family did.

Our courts and hospitals do not need this added burden. Our hospitals need to focus resources on the living and the courts have enough to deal with without now being faced with civil rights for the dead.

I hope that this case helps to bring about an update to UDDA and greater awareness of the realities of brain death so that cases like this are not allowed to get out of hand, like Jahi's case has done.

 

[SophieRose]

Just reported that the Coroner's Office won't block it if Jahi were to be moved.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

New video

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loca...ahi-McMath-Family-Must-Arrange-237554381.html

 

[Karmady]

Just reported that the Coroner's Office won't block it if Jahi were to be moved.

I understand why the coroner is taking that position, but I have to wonder if that's setting a very dangerous precedent. So now any family with a brain dead family member with, say, potentially viable organs, can remove the patient from the hospital so long as there's a place that will accept them and transportation provided. The implications of that are mind blowing imo.

jmo

 

[Trino]

I understand why the coroner is taking that position, but I have to wonder if that's setting a very dangerous precedent. So now any family with a brain dead family member with, say, potentially viable organs, can remove the patient from the hospital so long as there's a place that will accept them and transportation provided. The implications of that are mind blowing imo.
jmo

Agreed.

The entire case is mind blowing.

Has anyone considered that a facility that would take a legally deceased person would be doing it for the money? I cannot imagine any other reason why this would occur, but, then, I also cannot imagine how an insurance company would pay for care of a deceased person.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking...th-hospital-open-transferring-brain-dead-teen

Dr. Jessica Zitter, a Bay Area-based physician practicing critical and palliative care, said the family might not find a physician anywhere to do the procedures it seeks.

"Most hospitals would not treat a brain-dead patient; most private doctors would not treat a brain-dead patient," Zitter said.

A health care ethics expert said the hospital is following state law, which equates brain death with end of life.

"It's a pretty rare situation," said Ryan Holmes, a bioethicist with the Markkula Center for Applied Ethics at Santa Clara University. He said he has never heard of a patient declared brain-dead transferred to a long-term care facility.

"I think the whole case is dangerous in terms of precedent. I think that's probably a concern for the hospital," Holmes said. "We're able to do so much in medicine, and there are times when maybe we shouldn't do as much."

As many patients wind up brain-dead, Jahi's case could create future problems, he said."If you don't set hard lines, it's hard to reestablish those hard lines later," Holmes said. "The hospital is in the unfortunate position that any time they set those standards, it can be perceived as cold and unsympathetic, and it's a very hard place to be put in."

 

[Trino]

Assuming Jahi is sent to a long-term care facility. IMO eventually, she will get a virus or exhibit signs of death. If she's still connected, will the family ever accept her death, or will they insist on keeping her heart functioning? What will it take to get the family to understand she isn't coming back?

 

[meanmaryjean]

Let's just say - that this mystery facility DOES take possession of this child's body as it exists today- without a tracheostomy or gastrostomy tube. (See my earlier post which explains these procedures.)
She would be transported with a standard endotracheal tube (breathing tube inserted in the mouth, down into the lungs) and ng/nj feeding tube (inserted through the nose into the stomach or small bowel).
If the endotracheal (breathing or 'ET') tube becomes dislodged, only a physician (or paramedic in the field) can replace it 99% of the time. If no physician is available (which would be the case 99% of the time at a long-term care facility) - does the facility call 9-1-1 for emergent transport? What ER is going to replace an ET tube in a brain dead patient?
I have NEVER heard of a long-term care facility that would accept a patient with an ET tube. A tracheostomy is required for admission to these facilities for the exact reason that there is usually no in-house MD 24/7.
I don't even know what to think any longer about this case. It is so frustrating to only get information filtered through the family - and not the objective facts.