Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #2

[SeekingJana]

Also, at some point the mother faints and has to be admitted herself as a patient so that may have added to the confusion as family members try to recall the sequence of events.

So, an unfortunate situation occurred in the hospital, possibly close to Jahi's bedside. I would like to point out that the staff had no way to know she " passed out'. She could have been having a cardiac event or stroke. She could have needed and received medical emergency treatment, hopefully in the E.R., not in the PICU but one never knows. You don't step over an unconscious person, regardless of assignment area. Care could have been diverted from Jahi.. Not that her mother could control this and not that it happened this way, this is hypothetical based upon a possible scenario only.

 

[CarolinaMoon]

I bowed out last night, I couldn't take any more at that point.

This morning, I came back to see some misinformation here.

A couple of posters stated that the mother sought a second opinion because the first doctor did not want to do surgery and that she regretted getting a second opinion.

This statement is not factual. Read my original post on the issue and the link Swamp Mama provided in a later post.

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking...t-divisive-battle-over-jahi-mcmath-is-mothers

"Everyone says it's not my fault," Winkfield said on Monday, in her most extensive interview so far about the events that have propelled her and her family into a highly publicized, bitterly divisive battle with Children's Hospital Oakland. "But I drove her here. I made the appointment. I got the second opinion."

From BBM, I opined that:

I searched and searched this thread for the article, but my patience ran out and I'm just posting this from memory.

IIRC, early on, Jahi's mother stated about the original surgery that she was sorry she got a second opinion. I assume that meant that the first doctor recommended against surgery and she went to a second doctor who felt that the surgery could be successful.

If so, it's likely the more conservative doctor recommended CPap therapy at night and aggressive diet and exercise to bring Jahi's problems under control. That would have taken a long time and a great deal of persuasion on Mom's part.

Perhaps Jahi and/or her mother didn't want to go that route. Whatever the reason, they went to a second doctor to find a quicker solution to the problem in terms of immediate improvement in the apnea which would lead to more energy for Jahi and more of a willingness to exercise and diet.

If so, it is so easy to understand the mother's overwhelming guilt that she shouldn't have agreed to surgery over the more conservative treatment. Did she convince her daughter to undergo the surgery or did Jahi herself want to go that route.

BBM

In posting to thank Swamp Mama, I wrote:

As it is, we will probably never know much of what happened prior to the decision to have the surgery done, but Jahi's problems must have been very serious for any doctor to recommend such drastic surgery based on the discussions and excellent information provided by all our WS'ers.

This clearly stated that I was making assumptions rather than stating facts. It is my opinion only and perhaps I should have added a few IMHO's, :moo::moo:'s, and JMHO's. Please read carefully in this very delicate discussion and do not state opinions as facts without a link as I originally did. While my memory was correct, I again thank Swamp Mama for that link to back me up!

 

[SeekingJana]

Thank you- I asked because Fisher's report lists "medications at present" as Artificial Tears and Vasopressin , No Sedatives. I do not see any mention of any IV solution- no dextrose, no saline, no LR.

Dr Byrne states she is being given "sugar water". Trying to figure out if she has an IV, and of what.

Without antibiotics, it must be extremely difficult to be in there by now I would think.

For those who do not know, the Vasopressin, if she is still receiving it, is helping to keep her alive. In her situation, I would think it is being given IV.

It causes her blood pressure to be higher, thus aiding her heart to be perfused, and it also helps the kidneys perfuse and produce urine.

Here is the Wiki for the public on Vasopressin ( because someone would ask for a link):
Vasopressin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Softail]

Also, at some point the mother faints and has to be admitted herself as a patient so that may have added to the confusion as family members try to recall the sequence of events.

Where is it reported that the mother fainted? :waitasec:

 

[Linda7NJ]

The mom's belief has been reinforced at every step of the way. Looking at it from her point of view... Her prayers have been answered at every step along the way. There are supporters, donors, at least one doctor and the court rulings.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

 

[SeekingJana]

EEG refers to the recording of the brain's spontaneous electrical activity over a short period of time, usually 20–40 minutes, as recorded from multiple electrodes placed on the scalp. Diagnostic applications generally focus on the spectral content of EEG, that is, the type of neural oscillations that can be observed in EEG signals. In neurology, the main diagnostic application of EEG is in the case of epilepsy, as epileptic activity can create clear abnormalities on a standard EEG study.[2] A secondary clinical use of EEG is in the diagnosis of coma, encephalopathies, and brain death.

Electroencephalography - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I believe you are right.

EEG is the standard test given to determine brain wave presence or absence, and the amplitude of same.

It is similar to an EKG of the brain. Most of us have seen heart EKGs. They measure heart rate, rhythm, and atrial and ventricular performance in real time.
An EEG measures any brain wave activity on the same type of heated stylus/ paper graph, except that the graphs are more numerous, thus the sheet of paper is wider.
This is simplification but should give an idea of what an EEG graph looks like.

 

[atthelake]

Somewhat O/T but I would like to offer the following about End of Life provisions:

An Advanced Health Care Directive has been recommended but it is different from a DNR. Both are advisable. Each applies to a different situation.

The Advanced Directive (sometimes called a Living Will) has to do with Life Support among other instructions. The DNR (Do Not Resuscitate) is for instant decisions, whether or not to resuscitate a person in an incident of cardio/respiratory failure.

Two different directives, each for a separate purpose.

I do not claim to know the current law even in my state, but back in 2003, all that was necessary for a DNR was to advise my parents' health care providers and to post a notice at their bedsides; example, DNR or NO DNR.

~jmo~

A health care directive can also include a durable power of attorney for health care, for which the State of Georgia is a good example at http://http://aging.dhr.georgia.gov/sites/aging.dhs.georgia.gov/files/imported/DHR-DAS/GEORGIA%20ADVANCE%20DIRECTIVE%20FOR%20HEALTH%20CARE-07.pdf. Other forms of advance directives for health care that substantially comply with this form may be used in Georgia. This includes using forms from other states.

Google your states requirements and perhaps yours is codified also. Again, just a good example to view to start discussions and get going on having this very important document completed.

 

[CarolinaMoon]

Where is it reported that the mother fainted? :waitasec:

http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_24775262/jahi-her-mom-and-13-days-at-childrens

This is an excellent article and has probably been posted before. I do think it worth a read as it discusses the situation from the beginning of Jahi's obvious (versus not known) condition prior to deciding on the surgery.

Softail, Here's a quote:

Winkfield's mother, a nurse, replaced her in the ICU, but when Winkfield heard an alert called for Room 10 -- Jahi's room -- she said she rushed back to find staff attempting to restart her daughter's heart. Then Winkfield blacked out, she said, and was admitted herself.

 

[Minette]

Something that occurred to me last night--if Jahi is transferred to this 'facility' in New York, then would an autopsy be performed there when the rest of her systems inevitably break down? If so, would the state of California or CHO be privy to those results? I wonder.

 

[Softail]

http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_24775262/jahi-her-mom-and-13-days-at-childrens

This is an excellent article and has probably been posted before. I do think it worth a read as it discusses the situation from the beginning of Jahi's obvious (versus not known) condition prior to deciding on the surgery.

Softail, Here's a quote:

Ahhh... Thank you. I missed that.

 

[meme4]

I would really like to know exactly what they won, do they not realize that this child will waste away.....I would rather remember the beautiful ,smiling, happy, girl, than what they will remember if they continue this circus...it makes me very sad .........

 

[Elley Mae]

I bowed out last night, I couldn't take any more at that point.

This morning, I came back to see some misinformation here.

A couple of posters stated that the mother sought a second opinion because the first doctor did not want to do surgery and that she regretted getting a second opinion.

This statement is not factual. Read my original post on the issue and the link Swamp Mama provided in a later post.

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking...t-divisive-battle-over-jahi-mcmath-is-mothers



From BBM, I opined that:



BBM

In posting to thank Swamp Mama, I wrote:



This clearly stated that I was making assumptions rather than stating facts. It is my opinion only and perhaps I should have added a few IMHO's, :moo::moo:'s, and JMHO's. Please read carefully in this very delicate discussion and do not state opinions as facts without a link as I originally did. While my memory was correct, I again thank Swamp Mama for that link to back me up!

I never thought that was the reason.jmo It would seem that any insurance company would request a second opinion much less a mother that is unsure of the first opinion.

 

[CCmakes3]

http://www.10news.com/news/local-ne...-of-13-year-old-girl-on-life-support-12302013

Interesting....

 

[Sonya610]

Something that occurred to me last night--if Jahi is transferred to this 'facility' in New York, then would an autopsy be performed there when the rest of her systems inevitably break down? If so, would the state of California or CHO be privy to those results? I wonder.

Yes the State of California and the CHO would be able to access the results. NY isn't a foreign country!

 

[meme4]

Where were all these people offering to help now, at when this first happened......Its a media frenzy, could this be the reason......

 

[Elley Mae]

http://www.10news.com/news/local-ne...-of-13-year-old-girl-on-life-support-12302013

Interesting....

Thanks for the link, CCmakes3

snipped from that link,

He hoped to conduct that test for Jahi by first working with the family to get her transferred to another hospital.

Why can't he do it now, today?

 

[jjenny]

Something that occurred to me last night--if Jahi is transferred to this 'facility' in New York, then would an autopsy be performed there when the rest of her systems inevitably break down? If so, would the state of California or CHO be privy to those results? I wonder.

New York facility appears to be an outpatient facility for patients with traumatic brain damage.
They were supposed to open some in-patient facility in August, but I am not sure this home actually even opened at this point.
Obvoiusly Jahi can not be cared for in an outpatient setting.

 

[CCmakes3]

Thanks for the link, CCmakes3

snipped from that link,

He hoped to conduct that test for Jahi by first working with the family to get her transferred to another hospital.

Why can't he do it now, today?

You're welcome. I wondered the same thing, but I assume it is because the hospital won't let him (and his machine) into their facility.

 

[scmom]

Philip Low's device.
http://www.neurovigil.com/index.php/technology/ibrain-device

 

[Angelonline]

http://www.10news.com/news/local-ne...-of-13-year-old-girl-on-life-support-12302013

Interesting....

It appears, from this article, that this neuroscientist has been helping them look for another facility all along. My question is why doesnt he bring his mobile brain scanner (high res imagery) to CHO and run the tests on Jahi now?