Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #3

[Minette]

In papers filed with a state appeals court Friday, attorneys for Children's Hospital said a demand that doctors perform surgery on Jahi's body was "grotesque and unprecedented." The hospital's chief of pediatrics, Dr. David Durand, said that hospital staff were "demoralized" by the court's order forcing them to continue caring for a dead girl. That court took no action Friday.

From the same article momrids6 linked above, BBM. I bet they are. I hope they are receiving counseling as well as the family.

 

[Donjeta]

Lifesitenews is on top of it:

Jahi is currently on a ventilator, but her heart is beating on its own and both her family and an independent doctor have said she is physically responding to family members with small movements.

Still, California law allows medical professionals to remove life support if a patient has been declared brain dead, and Children’s Hospital has been fighting to do just that, going so far as to get the coroner to issue a death certificate and a judge to declare her “legally dead.”

“Personally, it's horrible that this child has died,” hospital attorney Douglas Straus told reporters outside the court Friday. “It's also horrible that it's so difficult for her family to accept it. And I constantly think that wouldn't it be great if they were able to come to terms with it.”

The settlement agreement states that Jahi’s mother, Nailah Winkfield, is “wholly and exclusively responsible for Jahi McMath the moment custody is transferred in the hospital's pediatric intensive care unit and acknowledge(s) that she understands that the transfer and subsequent transport could pact the condition of the body, including causing cardiac arrest.”

McMath family attorney Chris Dolan said that the settlement clears the way for Jahi to be moved to a facility where she can begin treatment for her brain injuries.

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/gi...ferred-out-of-hospital-that-tried-to-remove-l

1) The family took the case to court, not CHO, so in a way it was the family who got a judge to declare her legally deceased.
2) doctors are legally required to notify the coroner of deaths occurring.
3) I am really curious of hearing what kind of treatment Dolan proposes for a brain dead patient's brain injuries.

 

[joypath]

At least this will clear up the death certificate controversy.

http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_24840744/jahi-mcmath-mom-can-remove-brain-dead-daughter

"Elsewhere Friday, an Alameda County coroner's office investigator said Jahi's death certificate has been issued and that it listed her name and date of death as Dec. 12, the day she was declared brain dead after her sleep apnea surgery ended with complications, but listed no cause of death pending an autopsy. Officials have not yet made that certificate public."

Apologies if already posted. Just got in and read this.

BBM: :twocents::twocents: I'm thinking the COD has been listed (that's how one becomes eligible for a death certificate!) but the MANNER of death is identified as pending. The standard death certificate has lines that the pronouncing/treating MD/DO or designate complete with medical terminology and time intervals leading to the final "diagnostic" condition or disease. The reason why is simple, statistical data recovery as everything is coded

here's a link to the CDC instructions:http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/dvs/blue_form.pdf

I'm wondering if the reporter substituted terminology in the report or perhaps doesn't have a complete understanding of the document.

 

[Steft50]

Adam Katz ‏@geekeasy 2m
After huge media ordeal they made over #JahiMcMath, the family is now suing the hospital for violating their privacy. http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_24840745/jahi-mcmath-mom-can-remove-brain-dead-daughter …

Huh? Who went to the press? Was the hospital not suppose to comment or reply in court? If they were so concerned with privacy perhaps they should have a, not taken it to the press, and b. asked the court for a gag order and sealed documents.

 

[Donjeta]

Adam Katz ‏@geekeasy 2m
After huge media ordeal they made over #JahiMcMath, the family is now suing the hospital for violating their privacy. http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_24840745/jahi-mcmath-mom-can-remove-brain-dead-daughter …

What???????????

I think there's some confusion about the meanings of the word privacy. It's not the media kind of violation of privacy I think. Dolan's federal court filing claims that it is a violation of the family's privacy rights that the hospital presumes that they have the right to declare Jahi deceased and turn off her ventilation support because this should be the family's private decision. Or something to that effect.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I really appreciate your compassion for her mother.
I have compassion for Jahi. If I told you that every day Jahi remains on a vent, in the ICU was torture, torturing Jahi, would you still feel the same way?
Defining death. Take away the vent, what remains? Many of us have had to deal with death and dying, not on our terms. I believe in death with dignity and the dignity for Jahi was lost weeks ago. JMV

I have compassion for Jahi too.

If she is brain dead as they say there is no torture.

Had she died without being ventilated, her family would have no choice but to accept it. But she is ventilated. It will take a human hand to disconnect the ventilator. IMO it should be her family's choice.

I think Jahi is still a beautiful girl who has dignity. No different than if she was a vegetable and being cared for long term with hopes of recovery. Or if she was laughing and joking with her friends over a movie. Her dignity remains.

I have never said I think she should remain ventilated. But she's not my child and I don't have to make the choice.

I do maintain that I believe her Mother should be making the choices.

It seems the hospital has to allow her release. So I guess that problem is solved.

Her heart may stop before her transport, or during her transport, or 2 years from now.

But as long as her heart beats, with the help of the vent or not, IMO there are medical decisions that will need to be made. I believe her Mom should be the one to make those decisions.

JMO

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Yes I snipped it to make the points I was making.

As for the second part....the question wasn't asked because I misunderstood you or snipped it incorrectly....it's very simple....

Is the mother at this point in time making decisions based on what is best for her child, or more for what is right for herself?

IMO she is making decisions that she thinks is best for her child.

 

[newmrsc]

Huh? Who went to the press? Was the hospital not suppose to comment or reply in court? If they were so concerned with privacy perhaps they should have a, not taken it to the press, and b. asked the court for a gag order and sealed documents.

I *think* but don't know for sure that this is referring to a different sort of privacy than we're thinking. The original filings regarding privacy had to do with the family's rights to make medical decisions for Jahi. Not the same as a media intrusion. I think this article may just be referring to it in a way that's a bit confusing?

 

[meme4]

Originally Posted by momrids6
Adam Katz ‏@geekeasy 2m
After huge media ordeal they made overall #JahiMcMath, the family is now suing the hospital for violating their privacy. http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci...-dead-daughter …

INSANE, all I can say, it is all about money......:banghead:

 

[popsicle]

Children's Hospital ‏@Hospital4Kids 2m
Our attorney Doug Straus talks about today's court agreement between #JahiMcMath family and @Hospital4Kids http://bitly.com/1hn5oHT

 

[coeurfragile]

Any shred of sympathy I had for the family has just been taken away. I am disgusted. I hope the hospital doesn't settle with them and instead fights it, it's just that absurd.

 

[Donjeta]

In an Intensive Care Unit, Magnus says, 24 hours is an eternity. In the legal system, it's no time at all and inevitably, in cases like this, decisions drag on.
"It's what judges almost always do in these cases, they don't want to be the one to pull the plug, they don't want to be the one who ends a life," he said.

"If you change the rules, and say that you're only dead when families say you're dead, or agree to stop, that could be disastrously bad for medicine," added Magnus.
If "brain death" is no longer the definition, Magnus is concerned that precious ICU beds would be needlessly filled and doctors preoccupied with hopeless patients, which would divert resources from patients who need, and can benefit from treatment.
"Nobody's really talking about the parents of other children who may not be able to have surgeries done in a timely way," noted Magnus.

It's really not possible to recover from death," he emphasized. "They're not really asking for recovery, they're asking for resurrection."

http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/local/medical-ethicists-worry-jahis-case-threatens-defin/ncbX6/

 

[J1981]

Originally Posted by momrids6

Adam Katz ‏@geekeasy 2m

After huge media ordeal they made overall #JahiMcMath, the family is now suing the hospital for violating their privacy. http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci...-dead-daughter[\QUOTE]

Huh? Seems like it should be the other way around.

I think pp's are right it's a different privacy than we are thinking because the family sure has aired all the hospitals laundry, clean or not, but not vice versa.

 

[Karmady]

I have compassion for Jahi too.

If she is brain dead as they say there is no torture.

Had she died without being ventilated, her family would have no choice but to accept it. But she is ventilated. It will take a human hand to disconnect the ventilator. IMO it should be her family's choice.

I think Jahi is still a beautiful girl who has dignity. No different than if she was a vegetable and being cared for long term with hopes of recovery. Or if she was laughing and joking with her friends over a movie. Her dignity remains.

I have never said I think she should remain ventilated. But she's not my child and I don't have to make the choice.

I do maintain that I believe her Mother should be making the choices.

It seems the hospital has to allow her release. So I guess that problem is solved.

Her heart may stop before her transport, or during her transport, or 2 years from now.

But as long as her heart beats, with the help of the vent or not, IMO there are medical decisions that will need to be made. I believe her Mom should be the one to make those decisions.

JMO

~bbm

Just to be clear, the hospital did nothing wrong by not releasing her without its requirements being met. They did not have to release her. They agreed to release her now so long as the mother accepts full responsibility for that. I'm sure they couldn't reach that agreement fast enough once the mother agreed to take responsibility. It took like 15 minutes this morning, iirc.

jmo

 

[Kaliste]

Any shred of sympathy I had for the family has just been taken away. I am disgusted. I hope the hospital doesn't settle with them and instead fights it, it's just that absurd.

I feel that frustration! They are needlessly making a CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL bleed out money to defend themselves against what? From what I've read the hospital has done everything legally required. Suing for malpractice is different and though I don't agree I would understand.

I can only imagine how this will affect living patients and staff. What an absolute shame.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

As parents we always do things for our kids that the law says we must, whether *we* think so or not. There are those that feel beating (not spanking) their child is the right way to raise their kids and what is best for them, but the law (rightfully) says it's not, it's abuse. There are laws about educating our children either in an accredited school or at home, there are laws about how many days that must be attended. A while back a friend of mine was outraged because their High School PTA invited in a speaker who turned out to be totally inappropriate to speak to high school kids (it was actually the kids who called him out). This guy sells a book for how to raise your children and if you did even a quarter of it, it would, by law, be abuse, whether you agreed or not.

You totally missed my point.

She feels she is doing what is best for her child but the law says Jahi is dead. So, she's taking the matter up in the legal system. That's her right. It's not like she's breaking the law. She's asking the law to listen.

I'm not advocating for her to break the law. I am saying she's going about it the legal way. Like she should if she feels she needs to.

JMO

 

[SophieRose]

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/cacode/HSC/1/d2/2/1/s1254.4

CAL. HSC. CODE § 1254.4 : California Code - Section 1254.4

(a)A general acute care hospital shall adopt a policy for providing family or next of kin with a reasonably brief period of accommodation, as described in subdivision
(b), from the time that a patient is declared dead by reason of irreversible cessation of all functions of the entire brain, including the brain stem, in accordance with Section 7180, through discontinuation of cardiopulmonary support for the patient. During this reasonably brief period of accommodation, a hospital is required to continue only previously ordered cardiopulmonary support. No other medical intervention is required.(b)For purposes of this section, a "reasonably brief period" means an amount of time afforded to gather family or next of kin at the patient's bedside.

There's more, please read link. Having hard time getting it to copy.

 

[sherbetjello]

I honestly didn't think this was about a payday, I thought this was about getting her daughter to some "proper care."

Well, really wearing thin here on that. SMDH.

 

[Yoda]

I read this article the other night and as this drags on and on I thought I would share it. It is beautiful and heartwarming- except for how she came to be brain dead. Apologies if posted already.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...beaten-husband-6-000-miles-away-Michigan.html


"In Tehran, relatives drifted in and out of the living room at Nezami's father's home to watch what was unfolding in Michigan.
‘We cried a lot,’ her sister said. ‘We prayed in Persian, Arabic and English. The nurses told us Sanaz had brain damage - her brain was dead.’
At one point, Grutt, the nurse, was asked to stroke Nezami's head and kiss her forehead.
‘They wanted us to do things for Sanaz that they would have done,’ Grutt said. ‘They said, “Let her know we love her. We're here.” I felt completely comfortable.’
Nezami died on Dec. 9, but her critical organs - heart, lungs, kidneys, liver, pancreas and small intestine - could be used by others. With the family's consent, they were removed and transplanted to seven people in five states. No other details were released."

 

[jaxibear]

You totally missed my point.

She feels she is doing what is best for her child but the law says Jahi is dead. So, she's taking the matter up in the legal system. That's her right. It's not like she's breaking the law. She's asking the law to listen.

I'm not advocating for her to break the law. I am saying she's going about it the legal way. Like she should if she feels she needs to.

JMO

I understand what you are saying, and I respect your opinion, but when do her rights end and the rights of the parents of the child who needs that ICU bed begin?

IMHO, it is unfair and outright wrong to use the resources of the hospital on a child who has no chance of recovery. That is why we need these laws.