Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #3

[Kimberlyd125]

I understand what you are saying, and I respect your opinion, but when do her rights end and the rights of the parents of the child who needs that ICU bed begin?

IMHO, it is unfair and outright wrong to use the resources of the hospital on a child who has no chance of recovery. That is why we need these laws.

Hopefully she will be moved soon and that bed will become available once again.

I haven't heard of anyone saying any child has been turned away.

 

[Yoda]

Two other quotes that I was moved by from the article I posted above:
‘The family was willing to trust us to know she wasn't coming back,’ Kim Grutt said.

The family's faith in the staff led to consent for an extraordinary donation: Nezami's heart, lungs and other life-saving organs were transplanted to seven people in the U.S., a remarkable gift that occurs in less than one percent of all cases.
‘We wanted God to perform a miracle and bring Sanaz back to life,’ her sister, Sara Nezami, said in a phone interview from Tehran. ‘But this is a miracle. Sanaz gave her life in order to give life.’

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

I understand what you are saying, and I respect your opinion, but when do her rights end and the rights of the parents of the child who needs that ICU bed begin?

IMHO, it is unfair and outright wrong to use the resources of the hospital on a child who has no chance of recovery. That is why we need these laws.

I wonder... if a child dies at CHO and that death can be reasonably tied to the lack of an available ICU bed, would those parents have a legal claim against the McMaths?

Sent from my KFOT using Tapatalk HD

 

[meme4]

I have really tried to look at this from both sides, i am a mother and grand mother, and I love my kids and grand kids beyond measure...after what I witnessed with my father I know there is no way i would allow my child to lay there day after day knowing there was no hope.....Her mother is under the delusion she is gonna wakeup,talking , and being her self again....She will lay there until her body quits, no quality of life at all, and they think wanna talk about therapy.......I just cannot for the life of me see this as being in this child's best interest......It to me is selfish and cruel.......

 

[popsicle]

Justine Waldman ‏@JustineWaldman 1m
Family of #JahiMcMath and their attorney headed in court @kron4news pic.twitter.com/VzcSzdVbc6

 

[popsicle]

kjbender ‏@kjbender 50s
Family of #jahimcmath have arrived at federal court, attorney says will have news shortly.

 

[jaxibear]

Hopefully she will be moved soon and that bed will become available once again.

I haven't heard of anyone saying any child has been turned away.

And what if she is not moved soon because no facility will take a patient who is legally dead? How much time is enough before the law should be applied? My concern is the precedent. What about the next parent that does not want to let go? The law is, in my opinion, reasonable and necessary.

I doubt we will hear about other children due to privacy laws.

I am not trying to pick on you, I promise. :blowkiss:

 

[Leilei]

https://twitter.com/JustineWaldman/status/419294147145510912/photo/1

Family of #JahiMcMath and their attorney headed in court @kron4news pic.twitter.com/VzcSzdVbc6

Hope I did that correctly - I'm not a tweeter.

 

[Softail]

Children's Hospital ‏@Hospital4Kids 26m
What is death? Prompted by events btwn #JahiMcMath family & @Hospital4Kids, pediatric intensivist tackles this ? http://bitly.com/19UcCi0

From the article:


I am distressed at the suffering the family will endure as every day they hope and pray she will wake up. I am equally distressed at the impact on the bedside staff, especially the nurses who are with her constantly. They KNOW that this child has passed away. Yet they cannot grieve for her passing, or help the family grieve, because they are being forced to do what they know is unethical, immoral, and futile. - See more at:

http://www.carilionclinic.org/blogs/ackerman/what-death#sthash.OCDJvLdc.dpuf

I am too. I feel so bad for the nurses and staff. It has to be tearing them apart.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I wonder... if a child dies at CHO and that death can be reasonably tied to the lack of an available ICU bed, would those parents have a legal claim against the McMaths?

Sent from my KFOT using Tapatalk HD

They have the largest pediatric inpatient Critical Care Unit in the region according to their site.

Surely life and death at CHO doesn't depend on the availability of one bed.
If so, that is beyond concerning.

http://www.childrenshospitaloakland.org/main/departments-services/113.aspx

Pediatric Intensive Care Unit (PICU)
The Pediatric Intensive Care Unit (PICU) at Children’s Hospital & Research Center Oakland provides advanced care for children with a wide variety of life-threatening issues, such as severe infections, respiratory diseases, trauma, and complex post-operative care. Children’s Hospital Oakland has both the largest pediatric inpatient Critical Care Unit and one of only two designated California Level 1 pediatric trauma centers in the region. Children's PICU is recognized for providing expert care for kids, 24/7.

 

[wendiesan]

I also think the fact that her mother and grandmother were there when she started massive bleeding and the PICU jumped into Code Blue mode make this all the more stunning and dramatic. I don't want to denigrate anyone's grief, but the shock of seeing her bleeding and the collapse starts this surreal journey. Then, an attorney shows up and takes over.

Would it have been any easier if she had had a drowning or a stroke or a gunshot, or something that didn't happen in front of their eyes? I don't know.

Just one additional detail-- according to the family's spokesman, there was at least one other family member present when Jahi's hemorrhage began. The family members who "assisted" in trying to stem or suction the bleeding were Nailah Winkfield (Jahi's mother), Marvin Winkfield (Jahi's stepfather), Sandra Chatham (Jahi's grandmother, LVN) and, sadly, Jahi McMath herself.

The family spokesperson in both excerpts below is Omari Sealey (brother of Nailah Winkfield, Jahi's uncle).

http://www.csnbayarea.com/article/girl-brain-dead-after-tonsils-out

"...At the same time, Sealey said it appeared to the family as though the nursing staff had vanished during what seemed to be a shift change. In the family's minds, there didn't seem to be enough hospital staff in the room to help. The family started suctioning blood themselves; Jahi's grandmother, Sandra Chatman, is a nurse at another hospital.


'A 13-year-old should not have to suction herself,' Sealey said. 'She had to use a suction machine to suction her own blood. Her mother and stepfather had to suction out her blood at points. None of them work for this hospital.'."

Please note: the comment regarding lack of nursing support is, IMO, seems to be modified by Mr. Sealey in another interview.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/21/jahi-mcmath-life-support_n_4485119.html
Family members said there were containers of Jahi's blood in the room, and hospital staff members were providing transfusions to counteract the blood loss.

JMO, but I think the fact that Mrs. Winkfield can't see the signs of death as health care professionals see them make it very difficult for her to believe that her daughter has died. Maybe if Jahi's body was cold to the touch it would be easier to understand Jahi was dead. Maybe if Jahi's young heart had stopped sooner, it would be easier for accept that Jahi was dead. Warmth and a beating heart sure give the illusion of life.

 

[popsicle]

I have really tried to look at this from both sides, i am a mother and grand mother, and I love my kids and grand kids beyond measure...after what I witnessed with my father I know there is no way i would allow my child to lay there day after day knowing there was no hope.....Her mother is under the delusion she is gonna wakeup,talking , and being her self again....She will lay there until her body quits, no quality of life at all, and they think wanna talk about therapy.......I just cannot for the life of me see this as being in this child's best interest......It to me is selfish and cruel.......

I agree. I have seen 3 of my grandparents suffer, numerous patients suffer.... I would never do this to my loved one.

 

[Minette]

I haven't heard of anyone saying any child has been turned away.

RSBM: I don't think the hospital could say anything 'real time' about that without violating HIPAA for Jahi and/or the other child(ren.) I could be wrong, but I suspect the hospital would try to accommodate the child or children who needed the ICU bed at another facility or try to improvise.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

And what if she is not moved soon because no facility will take a patient who is legally dead? How much time is enough before the law should be applied?

I doubt we will hear about other children due to privacy laws.

I am not trying to pick on you, I promise. :blowkiss:

That would be up to the courts.
As of now, they still have a little time.

One bed at the largest PICU in the region is not going to mean a patient is turned away or not treated.

JMO

 

[momrids6]

That would be up to the courts.
As of now, they still have a little time.

One bed at the largest PICU in the region is not going to mean a patient is turned away or not treated.

JMO

Their PICU has 23 beds.

 

[Herat]

They have the largest pediatric inpatient Critical Care Unit in the region according to their site.

Surely life and death at CHO doesn't depend on the availability of one bed.
If so, that is beyond concerning.

Many hospitals do not have PICU care because of the high cost and difficultly in maintaining quality staff at PICU level. PICU (and NICU) are often the first cost centers that goes when hospital budgets mandate service reductions. With these closings, CHO becomes the major hub for intensive care for children, especially complex traumatic and oncologic care. CHO receives very difficult and criticaly ill children not only from California, but from Nevada, too.

Influenza is already claiming lives in California and Nevada and the peak flu season has not yet hit. CHO may very well fill all 23 beds for weeks on end as the flu season begins.

 

[katydid23]

right?


"We continue to clear obstacles hoped for extraction before the TRO expires"


WTF?

EXTRACTION? what a strange term for the family attorney to use. Her extraction?

 

[Montjoy]

I know that someone asked for a link, and so far as I can tell none was provided, so I'm inclined to think that the 'Dead, dead, dead' comment was malicious or antagonistic hearsay (at best).

 

[popsicle]

EXTRACTION? what a strange term for the family attorney to use. Her extraction?

I'm thinking he went to school with Jose Baez.

 

[Karmady]

Their PICU has 23 beds.

and besides, there are far more beneficial ways to spend their money and resources.

jmo