Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #4

[Karmady]

I believe all the ICU rooms have cameras?

Good question. Idk, but found this

http://www.health-first.org/hospitals_services/vitalwatch_pt_brochure.pdf

 

[fruity]

Don't. It's disturbing. And I'm not easily disturbed. jmo

I won't. I'm not usually bothered by things which others find disturbing either ... but even the thought of this is playing on my mind.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

I feel there is a gruesome and horrible obsession by some in our country with this case and a gruesome and horrible determination to keep vigil on the process of pulling the plug so they can force the family to "accept", "heal", and get "closure", which never happens in the case of a dead child.

I actually think if there was a pay per view of the hospital pulling the plug and close ups of the kid's wailing, horrified family looking on, there would be many who would watch with a gleeful or grim satisfaction.

Read any yahoo or CNN comments. You'll see what I mean.

There are many different aspects of this case that can be studied and learned from. We all have to deal with death and need to make decisions on our own advanced directives. This is a case that has gone out of controlled and disrupted a hospital and court system. There are laws in place that already address brain death.

I have found this a good case to study and research and I have been allowed to share my opinions and beliefs and have refrained from becoming emotionally attached.

eta: Many cases have bizarre and disturbing comments under MSM articles and in SM. Some people just do it because "they" think it's funny or to get a rise out of others.

 

[Softail]

I feel there is a gruesome and horrible obsession by some in our country with this case and a gruesome and horrible determination to keep vigil on the process of pulling the plug so they can force the family to "accept", "heal", and get "closure", which never happens in the case of a dead child.

I actually think if there was a pay per view of the hospital pulling the plug and close ups of the kid's wailing, horrified family looking on, there would be many who would watch with a gleeful or grim satisfaction.

Read any yahoo or CNN comments. You'll see what I mean.

I happen to think most people would like to see JAHI retain some sort of dignity, and be laid to rest peacefully.

It appears to me that most people are on her side, and believe the circus should end. :twocents:

RIP JAHI... May you rest in peace! :rose:

ETA: I am completely sitting on my hands, and reluctantly not commenting on the pay per view event! :maddening:

 

[Karmady]

I happen to think most people would like to see JAHI retain some sort of dignity, and be laid to rest peacefully.

It appears to me that most people are on her side, and believe the circus should end. :twocents:

RIP JAHI... May you rest in peace! :rose:

ETA: I am completely sitting on my hands, and reluctantly not commenting on the pay per view event! :Maddening:

The whole matter should have been kept as private as possible. It was not. What we're seeing is, imo, Newton's Third Law applying socially. jmo

 

[Zuri]

I don't think she is here right now.... I think this is the link she meant.

http://sprocket-trials.blogspot.com/2014/01/the-long-sad-death-of-jahi-mcmath.html

Thank you for posting this link. The comments by the medical professionals were excellent and informative. I had not seen the video clips of the family bring interviewed by MSM. The video clip that was referenced in the blog featured Jahi's grandmother on JVM. Well worth a read. JMO

 

[gitana1]

I happen to think most people would like to see JAHI retain some sort of dignity, and be laid to rest peacefully.

It appears to me that most people are on her side, and believe the circus should end. :twocents:

RIP JAHI... May you rest in peace! :rose:

ETA: I am completely sitting on my hands, and reluctantly not commenting on the pay per view event! :maddening:

Jahi's soul is in heaven. She experiences none of this. We show dignity to bodies out of respect for the family. We know what her family wants.

And it's not as if Jahi's corpse is being drop kicked all over the place. Or otherwise desecrated. What's happening to her body is the physical manifestation of her family's pain and horror. But for them, it is enabling them to cope and go through the grief process. Jahi has all the dignity a child could ever have, in the enduring, passionate love of her traumatized family.

 

[popsicle]

Nick Smith ‏@nicksmithnews 27m
#NOW "It never occurred to me to stop the fight to save my baby. Never." Nailah Winkfield #JahiMcMath pic.twitter.com/jI50usU3r3

Nick Smith ‏@nicksmithnews 37m
#DEVELOPING: family describes interaction with #JahiMcMath. Grandmother in her own words. LIVE REPORT 6pm pic.twitter.com/mUea1Rn2J7

Nick Smith ‏@nicksmithnews 39m
#NEW "I am overwhelmed by the support we have been given." Nailah Winkfield, mother of #JahiMcMath

Nick Smith ‏@nicksmithnews 42m
#NEW Information, mom: "#Jahi understands what's happening. We're making progress with relocating her." pic.twitter.com/W6noGI7uEo

 

[popsicle]

Children's Hospital ‏@Hospital4Kids 4h
Dr. Hector Wong #CincinnatiChildrensHospital,Director #CriticalCare Medicine editorial on childhood death#JahiMcMath http://bitly.com/JS8Dse

 

[Cailin Rua]

IIRC, Herat or KZ described there being an artery proximal to the tonsils. A branch of the carotid maybe? So, for reasons of my post, let's say that the blood loss may have been from an arterial bleed. Theoretically, A person can bleed out in 3 minutes. So the nurses and doctors would have to have been trying to stem the bleeding, treat vital signs and related symptoms all within 3 minutes or so. OMG what a nightmare for everyone. I have no idea how to stem an arterial bleed from inside the throat other than to try and visualize and throw a stitch in? No clue. Hopefully KZ and Herat could share how they do that. TIA.

BTW, I am not stating this definitively happened. But if something like this did occur, it might explain the "how" part. Once Jahi is transferred out, is CHO still bound by HIPAA not to disclose what happened?

Yes, HIPAA would still apply unless the family signed a release, or if the information became public knowledge because of legal filings.

My husband is an anesthesiologist and he keeps saying they must have "lost the airway" but that could be a matter of everything looking like a nail to someone with a hammer.

 

[Softail]

Jahi's soul is in heaven. She experiences none of this. We show dignity to bodies out of respect for the family. We know what her family wants.

And it's not as if Jahi's corpse is being drop kicked all over the place. Or otherwise desecrated. What's happening to her body is the physical manifestation of her family's pain and horror. But for them, it is enabling them to cope and go through the grief process. Jahi has all the dignity a child could ever have, in the enduring, passionate love of her traumatized family.

For once, I have to disagree. How can anyone be sure she isn't in purgatory? IF she leaves the hospital, which is still a big IF. She will be transported to the CORONER. Then, IF and only IF they sign the papers, she can be moved again.

<modsnip> It is a sad sad, reality.

 

[momrids6]

Link doesn't work...the response I get is this:

Sorry, the page you were looking for in this blog does not exist.

It was due to the page being updated again- if you scroll down that page on the right is an alphabetical list... click on Jahi's name

 

[Karmady]

Jahi's soul is in heaven. She experiences none of this. We show dignity to bodies out of respect for the family. We know what her family wants.

And it's not as if Jahi's corpse is being drop kicked all over the place. Or otherwise desecrated. What's happening to her body is the physical manifestation of her family's pain and horror. But for them, it is enabling them to cope and go through the grief process. Jahi has all the dignity a child could ever have, in the enduring, passionate love of her traumatized family.

I disagree. Most deceased children have the enduring passionate love of their traumatized family in situations such as this. They handle it with varying degress of dignity. Imo, this situation is very low on the scale of dignitiy all around. But I do agree that Jahi is not suffering, as she's dead. So what's the point?

 

[nightwatch]

I feel there is a gruesome and horrible obsession by some in our country with this case and a gruesome and horrible determination to keep vigil on the process of pulling the plug so they can force the family to "accept", "heal", and get "closure", which never happens in the case of a dead child.

I actually think if there was a pay per view of the hospital pulling the plug and close ups of the kid's wailing, horrified family looking on, there would be many who would watch with a gleeful or grim satisfaction.

Read any yahoo or CNN comments. You'll see what I mean.

I agree, but unlike the case you posted up thread this family bought the public opinion and attention on themselves. Magnified by asking for public donations then all the ghouls are expected. Jmo

Ciao

 

[MEN3C]

IIRC, Herat or KZ described there being an artery proximal to the tonsils. A branch of the carotid maybe? So, for reasons of my post, let's say that the blood loss may have been from an arterial bleed. Theoretically, A person can bleed out in 3 minutes. So the nurses and doctors would have to have been trying to stem the bleeding, treat vital signs and related symptoms all within 3 minutes or so. OMG what a nightmare for everyone. I have no idea how to stem an arterial bleed from inside the throat other than to try and visualize and throw a stitch in? No clue. Hopefully KZ and Herat could share how they do that. TIA.

BTW, I am not stating this definitively happened. But if something like this did occur, it might explain the "how" part. Once Jahi is transferred out, is CHO still bound by HIPAA not to disclose what happened?

The tonsils themselves are supplied primarily by branches of the external carotid artery. The internal carotid artery lies approximately 2-2.5cm posteriorly.

 

[MaybeNotToday]

There are many different aspects of this case that can be studied and learned from. We all have to deal with death and need to make decisions on our own advanced directives. This is a case that has gone out of controlled and disrupted a hospital and court system. There are laws in place that already address brain death.

I have found this a good case to study and research and I have been allowed to share my opinions and beliefs and have refrained from becoming emotionally attached.

eta: Many cases have bizarre and disturbing comments under MSM articles and in SM. Some people just do it because "they" think it's funny or to get a rise out of others.

While I agree with you, I don't think you should have to give an excuse for why you stay interested in this case. I, for one, give everyone here the benefit of the doubt that our curiosity and concern comes from a place of good faith and wanting to educate ourselves. There's nothing wrong with wanting to understand our society.

 

[gitana1]

BBM, above from post 223.

Respectfully disagreeing.

Since ~12/12, CHO personnel (meaning CHO the corp, and Does #1-99, hosp. med staff, admin, etc.) wanted to disconnect the vent, when second dr gave opn as to brain death.
~12/12 to ~12/20, Jahi's fam persuaded CHO to cont vent & care.
~12/20 fam took legal action in COURT- app for TRO to FORCE CHO to cont. vent & care, etc.
Since ~12/20 TRO, CHO personnel have been subject to ct order FORCING them to cont. vent & care.

As I understand it, if CHO personnel did not cont vent per ct order, they would be subject to jail for contempt for disobeying court order.

I don't see how CHO personnel would be crim'ly prosecuted for, much less found guilty,
in connection w their actions complying w ct order.

Ditto proceedings the various st. licensing bds (dr, nurses, resp. tech's, etc) would consider,
when the licensees were ct ordered to cont. vent & care.

Any Legal-Eagles w thoughts on this, agree or disagree?
Or any of our med-posters here w. experience re ct orders re patient care?

JM2cts and I may be wrong. :seeya:

I was asked to respond to this. You're right al66pine. Following court's orders cannot be criminal if in the same jurisdiction.

 

[Kaliste]

Nick Smith &#8207;@nicksmithnews 27m
#NOW "It never occurred to me to stop the fight to save my baby. Never." Nailah Winkfield #JahiMcMath pic.twitter.com/jI50usU3r3

Nick Smith &#8207;@nicksmithnews 37m
#DEVELOPING: family describes interaction with #JahiMcMath. Grandmother in her own words. LIVE REPORT 6pm pic.twitter.com/mUea1Rn2J7

Nick Smith &#8207;@nicksmithnews 39m
#NEW "I am overwhelmed by the support we have been given." Nailah Winkfield, mother of #JahiMcMath

Nick Smith &#8207;@nicksmithnews 42m
#NEW Information, mom: "#Jahi understands what's happening. We're making progress with relocating her." pic.twitter.com/W6noGI7uEo

Saved??

And "Jahi understands what's happening" ?

HUH?!

 

[mrsksomeday]

Saved??

And "Jahi understands what's happening" ?

HUH?!

The mother is delusional and in complete denial. I worry about her mental health at this point.

 

[Softail]

Jahi's soul is in heaven. She experiences none of this. We show dignity to bodies out of respect for the family. We know what her family wants.

And it's not as if Jahi's corpse is being drop kicked all over the place. Or otherwise desecrated. What's happening to her body is the physical manifestation of her family's pain and horror. But for them, it is enabling them to cope and go through the grief process. Jahi has all the dignity a child could ever have, in the enduring, passionate love of her traumatized family.

I have to disagree...she is a deceased person