Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #4

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I disagree. Most deceased children have the enduring passionate love of their traumatized family in situations such as this. They handle it with varying degress of dignity. Imo, this situation is very low on the scale of dignitiy all around. But I do agree that Jahi is not suffering, as she's dead. So what's the point?

That's is what I am wanting to know. Hoping that you mean the parents, adults, lawyers. What is the point. Our of this whole wide world of people that end up brain dead for what ever reason, what is the point?

I have a hard time understanding how someone can not believe what professionals tell them about brain death. Maybe that has to be a part of the papers that have to be signed before surgery. Understanding and knowing that brain death is death. jmo idk
 
I think Jahi's family is failing to see the differences in the cases reported online regarding "brain dead" patients waking up and Jahi's case. In most of the cases I have read online the doctors did not perform the proper tests to determine their patients were truly brain dead. It sounds like the doctors in Jahi's case have done the appropriate tests multiple times. However, how can you blame a mother for not trusting doctors who she feels are responsible for the condition her daughter is now in?

I find myself hoping that Jahi's heart will soon stop on it's own before the ventilator has to be removed. Please don't take that as me hoping this child dies. I would love nothing more than for her to open her eyes and prove everyone wrong; however, deep down, I just don't believe that will happen. Losing a child is the worst thing a mother could possibly endure. If her heart stops on it's own this poor mother won't have to spend the rest of her life dealing with the constant fear that her daughter could have possibly still been alive when the vent was removed.
 
I have no doubt that I would have made the decision to let my child go when first dx as brain dead. Even if I personally wasn't able to accept and deal, I know my family would have held me up and supported me during this extreme time. Jahi's mom says they have a large, extended and close family... where are they in all this? Besides playing cards in the hospital on New Years. jmo
 
I feel there is a gruesome and horrible obsession by some in our country with this case and a gruesome and horrible determination to keep vigil on the process of pulling the plug so they can force the family to "accept", "heal", and get "closure", which never happens in the case of a dead child.

I actually think if there was a pay per view of the hospital pulling the plug and close ups of the kid's wailing, horrified family looking on, there would be many who would watch with a gleeful or grim satisfaction.

Read any yahoo or CNN comments. You'll see what I mean.

I rarely read comments at news sites under articles. In fact only when someone here says to and it depends on if I am interested in what is being said.
There are lots of people that find gruesome to be awesome, I don't. I know that though out the ages leaders have built stages for the masses to come and watch people killing people and animals and people killing each other. And they came and they watched. Thousands and thousands. So I am sure there are those that would watch if they could. Not me.
 
[video=youtube;2ZhhTWhlW9c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZhhTWhlW9c[/video]

starting at :55, listen carefully and at 1:43
And yes, a doctor came
 
Grandma: 'Just pray for Jahi, please' - YouTube

starting at :55, listen carefully and at 1:43
And yes, a doctor came

I'm trying to listen in spite of excessive buffering on my laptop, but it sounds like she says multiple docs responded. Just not the surgeon himself and not with enough concern over the situation in her opinion. They started some sort of drip and used something like Afrin in her nose. Isn't Afrin a vasoconstrictor? (no idea if that's the right word!).

jmo
 
I'm trying to listen in spite of excessive buffering on my laptop, but it sounds like she says multiple docs responded. Just not the surgeon himself and not with enough concern over the situation in her opinion. They started some sort of drip and used something like Afrin in her nose. Isn't Afrin a vasoconstrictor? (no idea if that's the right word!).

jmo

I hear her talking to a doctor right after :55 and then again later stating doctors...hard to ascertain if this is 2 separate occasions

ETA/bbm: PICU is one big room at CHO...
 
Was Jahi being taped while bleeding or just before? I can't bear to watch the video.
 
I hear her talking to a doctor right after :55 and then again later stating doctors...hard to ascertain if this is 2 separate occasions

ETA: PICU is one big room at CHO...

Seems to me it was all in PICU and most likely that one doc came first and then one or more others showed up. I wonder how she knows/why she thinks they didn't call the surgeon. In my experience, the nurses always page the surgeon and/or his colleagues attending his patient call him directly. I don't know how long that surgery takes, but who knows where the surgeon was at the time. jmo
 
The family questioning that there was any blood at all reminds me of several conversations I have had with postpartum patients. They usually start with 1 of 2 questions... "Why am I bleeding down there", "I just had a baby so why am I bleeding". Not kidding. jmo
 
Was Jahi being taped while bleeding or just before? I can't bear to watch the video.

There is no video of Jahi. Just pictures of her. That picture was taken before her surgery.
 
Was Jahi being taped while bleeding or just before? I can't bear to watch the video.

She is not being taped at all. The picture is pre surgery. Seems they took pics before she went into OR

ETA: Popsicle, get out of my head :)
 
It was very difficult last week to get away from TV coverage. My 14 yr old noticed it was running in the Times Square coverage NY's Eve on the news ticker.

My youngest two are in the unenviable position of having a sibling with a severe metabolic disorder, who has already had one stroke- as many of you know. (eta) My oldest is obviously in this position also. For him, it is compounded by the fact he is also an Army medic in nursing school.

As you can imagine, this whole thing has upset them greatly. They do ask me for updates, and much of what they have said is not "type-able". My son that has the disorder has proclaimed to more than one person this week- he is glad he has a living will, and is also an organ donor.
 
I would bet money that Jahi's family and attorney are searching the internet for every case they can find like this to support their claim. After reading a lot of these myself I would probably be questioning such a diagnosis if it were given to my child.

I wish we had more details from the doctors. From what I have read in court documents it does sound like something like this happening to Jahi would be next to impossible. It sounds like they have done thorough test by multiple doctors.


Film on teen who awoke from coma before having organs harvested stirs 'brain death' debate

COPENHAGEN, Denmark, October 18, 2012, (LifeSiteNews.com) - A documentary titled “Pigen der ikke ville dø” (“The girl who refused to die”), which aired last week on Danish TV, tells the story of 19-year-old Carina Melchior, a 19 year-old girl who awoke from a coma after doctors asked her family to consider donating her organs. The film has raised concern again over inexact criteria for brain death prior to organ donation.

The documentary followed Melchior’s family after she was taken to Aarhus University Hospital to be treated for injuries from a car accident.

Last October, Carina was admitted to hospital with severe injuries and slipped into a coma. Doctors advised her parents that there was little chance for her survival, that brain death would probably occur within days, and suggested withdrawing life support and making preparations for organ donation.

The parents agreed, and Carina was taken off her respirator but continued to breathe on her own.

To the astonishment of her parents and hospital staff, Carina suddenly began moving her legs and opening her eyes.

Carina’s parents claim that doctors took her off life support too soon, because they were desperate for donated organs.

Kim Melchior, Carina’s father, said, “Those bandits in the white coats gave up too quickly, because they wanted an organ donor.”

Danish media report that Carina is making a good recovery in a rehabilitation center, where she is regaining her speech and mobility - even riding her horse Mathilde - and hopes to complete her third year of high school, as she was doing when the accident happened.

<snip>

Earlier this month, a lawsuit launched in New York stated that at least one in five patients declared “brain dead” are still alive and are being killed by the removal of vital organs.


http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/fi...ma-before-having-organs-harvested-stirs-39bra

I hope they see the difference here though...this girl had not been declared brain dead yet...the doctor anticipated it within a few days...boy was that doctor wrong...anyhow...it's much different actually being declared brain dead. Hopefully if the family is looking this stuff up they do see that...it can be very confusing to anyone not working in the medical field.
 
I was reading comments on an article. I don't know if I can post the link but if I can I will. The comment said that Jahi was not suppose to talk after the surgery and was given a board to communicate with her family. That the family didn't like that so they had her talking and laughing. When she asked for a popsicle the nurse heard her and said no talking. Then the bleeding started and the grandmother inserted a tube to suction because she was a nurse. Did I miss this info somewhere or is it just a know it all troll?
 
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2013/07/st_joes_fined_over_dead_patien.html
This article says they mistakenly thought Colleen Burns suffered cardiac death. She was under the influence of drugs that alter consciousness and moved and breathed independently.


A review by the state Health Department found:

*Staff skipped a recommended treatment to prevent the drugs the patient took from being absorbed by her stomach and intestines.

*Not enough testing was done to see if she was free of all drugs.

*Not enough brain scans were performed.

*Doctors ignored a nurse's observations indicating Burns was not dead and her condition was improving.

St. Joe's officials thought Burns suffered "cardiac death" in October 2009, according to documents obtained by The Post-Standard under the state Freedom of Information Law.

Her family had agreed to allow doctors to withdraw life support and remove her organs after they were told she was dead.

The day before her organs were to be removed, a nurse had performed a reflex test on Burns, scraping a finger on the bottom of her foot. The toes curled downward - not the expected reaction of someone who's supposed to be dead.

There were other indications that Burns had not suffered irreversible brain damage, as doctors had determined. Her nostrils flared in the prep area outside the OR. She seemed to be breathing independently from the respirator she was attached to. Her lips and tongue moved.

Twenty minutes after those observations were made, a nurse gave Burns an injection of the sedative Ativan, according to records.

In the doctors' notes, there's no mention of the sedative or any indication they were aware of her improving condition.

None of those signs stopped the organ-harvesting process. It wasn't until Burns was wheeled into the OR on Oct. 20, 2009, opened her eyes and looked at the lights above her that doctors called it off.

Burns had been in a deep coma from taking an overdose of drugs. Hospital personnel misread that as irreversible brain damage without doing enough to evaluate her condition, the state Health Department found.

No doubt her case will be used as evidence that brain dead people can wake up and recover but I think it is more appropriate to interpret it as a sign that there were some careless and/or incompetent people working in that hospital and lots of problems with the communication and records keeping.
 
I believe all the ICU rooms have cameras?

That will be interesting to find out, if any of this is on film. I have wondered if something has been put in place since this has happened.
 
I was reading comments on an article. I don't know if I can post the link but if I can I will. The comment said that Jahi was not suppose to talk after the surgery and was given a board to communicate with her family. That the family didn't like that so they had her talking and laughing. When she asked for a popsicle the nurse heard her and said no talking. Then the bleeding started and the grandmother inserted a tube to suction because she was a nurse. Did I miss this info somewhere or is it just a know it all troll?

Something that "clicked" for me - I've seen it mentioned in MSM that Jahi was given a whiteboard to communicate, but her mom has stated that the notes that Jahi was writing are missing. Were these paper notes, and if so, why not use the whiteboard?

And good morning, everyone. Lots of interesting info to read from y'all last night!
 
That will be interesting to find out, if any of this is on film. I have wondered if something has been put in place since this has happened.

Their ICU is one big room- and I cannot imagine taping people in their worst time of their lives is allowed, or should ever be allowed, though maybe it is already happening in certain hospitals? This is one I have to give much thought to
 
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