Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #5

[CarolinaMoon]

IMHO, JMHO, :moo::moo::moo:

I had to quit the case last night after reading the reports and hearing the first bits of Nancy Grace. I am so upset by the appalling treatment of Jahi post-death. For her sake, I hope it is over sooner rather than later.

When it is over, the lawsuits will fly. It is only then that we will possibly learn of her condition prior to surgery.

What little we know of Jahi pre-op is that she had severe sleep apnea. Was it a possible lethal condition that only surgery could help? She had no energy and her grades were slipping because she had problems concentrating at school. She was morbidly obese, possibly due to her apnea and inability to get proper sleep.

The fact that two surgeons recommended the extreme surgery makes me believe the above is true.

We know that Jahi made it through surgery and anesthesia. She was removed from recovery to the PICU in what seems to be the normal amount of time.

At that point, we only have what the family has to say concerning the bleeding that progressed to unstoppable hemorrhaging.

There were medical professionals and the parents of other patients in the PICU at the time who know, and probably documented, what occurred. Thank goodness, the hospital has followed the rules and has not breached Jahi's HIPPA rights. Relatives of other patients in the PICU have said little or nothing, possibly at the direction of the hospital. Besides, they had very sick children there as well.

I don't know if the hospital will settle quietly. I have to wonder if their insurers will want to quash public discussion in this case. We'll have to wait and see.

If they decide to go down the Civil Rights road in Federal Court, to get their $30,000,000, it will be fascinating to observe the results. For Dolan, or whoever files the suit, it will be extremely difficult to prove that a deceased person has civil rights.

To preserve what little is left of my sanity in this case, I'll just be scanning the pages and swallowing hard. I'm going to focus on the legal ramifications.

 

[Elley Mae]

"She's in very bad shape," he said. "You would be too, if you hadn't had nutrition in 26 days and were a sick little girl to begin with."

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/...alifornia-girl-experts-say/?intcmp=latestnews

bbm, wonder what is meant by this.

 

[Softail]

Since when was NG interested in facts? She needs a sensational story that she can pontificate over. The family would most certainly have not been on her show if she was interested in the actual facts...same goes for all the other media they have done...:banghead:

:doh: Oh yeah. What am I thinking? :giggle:

BTW, today is 27 Days since Jahi died on December 12th.

 

[meme4]

Real nice response from mom on twitter or wherever she posted her comment, I thought this family was religious but their words and actions dont speak of christians....I wish this tradegy had never happened, just because I dont agree with her actions is no reason for her to express such comments..Maybe it would best serve her to stay off twitter, facebook and out of the media......I think their lawyer would have told them to make no further comment especially on social sites.....

 

[BeginnersLuck]

I hope you are right. At this point, I'm not sure. I feel like they want this to go on as long as possible. IF she is at grannie's house, then nobody but them will know when her heart truly stops if it hasn't already. I fear this will go on and on, even after her heart stops. I truly hope I'm wrong and you are right. For Jahi's sake. :sigh:

I agree with you. I don't believe that after her heart stops this will end. Dolan made reference to continuing this battle in the press conference after the transport from the hospital.

I don't want to categorize everyone that is part of the pro-life movement as having the same opinion with Jiha's case. This IMO though, is where we are seeing the support for the family coming from. There are some that just are not informed that Jahi is deceased and think she is like these stories that are being spread, of others that have had brain injuries, but are not brain dead. The spreading of these stories, is IMO, being done by those that want the laws changed. They are minutemen so to speak. The spreading of false information is part of getting others on board that are not informed.

It's deliberate and it is done to alter opinions of those that vote and those that are in our legislature.

There is big money poured into this for candidates that support their views.

Jiha is being used by an alternate agenda. A child that deserves dignity and respect. IMO, this is not about any religious beliefs whatsoever and I guess that would be of debate depending on what each individual defines as religion.

Since there wasn't any modern day technology when the bible was written, for all I know, someone had to much wine to drink and needed a while to sleep it off. <sarcasm>

 

[popsicle]

Since when was NG interested in facts? She needs a sensational story that she can pontificate over. The family would most certainly have not been on her show if she was interested in the actual facts...same goes for all the other media they have done...:banghead:

Which explains why the Uncle was a no show on JVM's show. The guests and JVM were fact driven imo.

 

[Elley Mae]

But she's not receiving regular feedings due to physical problems that do not allow surgical insertion of a feeding tube, Dolan said.

http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_24857784/jahi-mcmath-brain-dead-teens-body-may-be

 

[krimekat]

Wowsers! Playing on twitter, keeping it classy.

And all this family banter will be reviewed in a court of law

especially the $30M comment

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

CNN/HLN Transcripts January 6, 2014

Jane Velez-Mitchell: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1401/06/ijvm.01.html

Nancy Grace: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1401/06/ng.01.html

Anderson Cooper: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1401/06/acd.01.html

Dr. Drew and Piers Morgan transcripts not yet available.

 

[krimekat]

I'm sure people are aware that Cardinal Glennon is in St. Louis. I lived there most of my life and have tons of family/friends still in the area. St. Louis and all surrounding areas were in the throes of an intense snowstorm Sunday, perhaps the worst in three decades, which dumped anywhere from 9" to 15" on them and was immediately followed by sub-zero temperatures and record-setting negative wind chills. Virtually everything was shut down Sunday night and Monday morning. All major schools are still closed today (Tuesday).

They did NOT move the body to Cardinal Glennon due to weather, so I think we can safely dispel that rumor.

Jahi's body is not in StL

I live about 3 miles from Cardinal Glennon & NO WAY (due to weather) did the family transported her body here, especially prior to the PC yesterday - we're still stuck in 15" of snow & temperatures below zero. Interstates are still snow packed . . . airport was STILL cancelling flights this morning because it was too cold to de-ice planes

IMHO Jahi's body is at relatives' house
IMHO this family should stop talking 'cause they are digging themselves in a hole

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

January 7, 2014 at 9:48 am

Experts: challenges remain for 'brain dead' teen in California

Terry Collins and Lisa Leff /Associated Press

San Francisco — The family of a 13-year-old California girl who was declared brain dead after suffering complications from sleep apnea surgery has achieved its goal of moving the girl to a new facility for long-term care, but medical experts say the ventilator she’s on will not work indefinitely.

Jahi McMath’s uncle said Monday that she is now being cared for at a facility that shares their belief that she still is alive.

While the move ends what had been a very public and tense fight with the hospital, it also brings new challenges: caring for a patient whom three doctors have said is legally dead because, unlike someone in a coma, there is no blood flow or electrical activity in either her cerebrum or the brain stem that controls breathing...

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140107/NATION/301070058#ixzz2pjEzqBU9

 

[krimekat]

Lawsuits may fly but IMHO they won't fly far

 

[krimekat]

Dr. Paul A. Byrne is a Board Certified Neonatologist and Pediatrician. He is the Founder of the Neonatal Intensive Care Unit at SSM Cardinal Glennon Children's Medical Center in St. Louis, MO.

http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/byrne

I don't know if Cardinal Glennon claims this, though . . . "The infants that spend time in the Dana Brown NICU at Cardinal Glennon Children's Medical Center become living proof of the consistently high level of care our team delivers."

Wonder in the halls of CG is Byrne's picture - if I ever dig out of my abode, I'll go to CG & check it out (worked there once & still have my credential badge)

but they also have a Bob Costas Cancer Center

 

[Herat]

I have a legal question for those legally-educated.

Dolan is a personal-injury attorney. He's the guy with the biggest ad on the back page of the phone book. Usually, these guys are pretty penny-ante. They thrive on out-of-court settlements with insurance companies for fairly modest amounts for all sorts of injuries claimed and perceived by the plaintiff. It's a stupid game and everyone knows what goes on.

This case seems to be way out of his league. He may be in it for the massive publicity, which will guarantee a very nice living in the future with many more of the penny-ante personal injury lawsuits. He is also likely in it to further fund lobbying for reversal of the $250K malpractice cap.

Various legal sources have been mentioned here that seem to think his Violation of Privacy / Religous Rights etc will not prevail.

1. I believe that suit was already filed and was at least part of what went on with the Federal Court magistrate on Jan 3. Am I correct in this?

2. As this would seem to be premature to me, as the death certificate has not been filed, nor has any investigation revealed the exact method and means of death. - can he file amendements to that suit already recorded?

3. He said he would not pursue malpractice (because it's "chump change" according to Uncle), so I assume he will go for wrongful death-type suit. My guess is that if he does this, there will be a "settlement of undisclosed terms" and that the family will receive far, far less than the $30 million floated out there.

4. In a settlement, the money is awarded to plaintiffs. I assume that would be the mother, and possibly grandmother, and/ or father. Do the plaintiffs need to be specifically identified, or can a "family" be the plaintiff. I'm wondering how much legal standing Uncle Omari even has in this. Any info?

 

[Donjeta]

"We're not going to play God," he said. "If her heart stops beating while she's hooked to the ventilator, we can accept that."

http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_24857784/jahi-mcmath-brain-dead-teens-body-may-be

Who do you think plays God more? The people who see that someone is dead and remove her from the ventilator that has now become useless? Or the people who try to keep her artificially in a near-living state in the hopes that by so doing they can force God into performing a miracle?

 

[Herat]

http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_24857784/jahi-mcmath-brain-dead-teens-body-may-be

Who do you think plays God more? The people who see that someone is dead and removes her from the ventilator that has now become useless? Or the people who try to keep her artificially in a near-living state in the hopes that by so doing they can force God into performing a miracle?

The hypocracy in that statement he made is so utterly laughable.

These people will be laughed out of court when the defense makes mincemeat of their ridiculous statements.

 

[Donjeta]

"She's in very bad shape," he said. "You would be too, if you hadn't had nutrition in 26 days and were a sick little girl to begin with."

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/...alifornia-girl-experts-say/?intcmp=latestnews

bbm, wonder what is meant by this.

What he really means is that you would be in bad shape too if you hadn't had nutrition in 26 days on account of being dead.
JMO.

On Monday, Dolan said Jahi was being given antibiotics to fight infections and nutritional support.
"They're giving her everything that a person who would have a chance to live would be getting," he said.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/01/06/health/jahi-mcmath-girl-brain-dead/

He does not believe that Jahi has a chance to live, imo. On account of being dead. This reminds me of the as if she was alive statement.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Piers Morgan transcript January 6, 2014:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1401/06/pmt.01.html

 

[meme4]

SEALEY: Absolutely. I mean, it's the mother that brought the child into the world. She should be the one to decide whether her child continues to live or not, not someone else.

What an asinine statement, we dont get that choice.....

 

[Donjeta]

Honestly, I think it's less personal belief/experience than it is about anatomical and physiological understanding.

Most people don't know what part of the brain controls what - where the thoughts "live" and where the breathing center "lives", for example. They may understand the difference between "higher" and "lower" functions, but they don't understand how they actually function and what is dependent on which part of the brain.

I think a lot of folk don't understand the basic difference between "brain death" and PVS, too. Much less does one understand the difference between brain death, PVS, coma, deep coma, and so on.

So when people come up and say "my little Johnny was brain dead, and now he's valedictorian of his class", they honestly believe that's what happened. And of course it's not - we know that brain death is dead, just like Jahi.

And, again looking at this whole thing, I think even some medical professionals don't know or understand the differences...vis a vis Gramma.

How to correct this? Well, I don't really know. I think that this horrific tragedy could have gone a LONG way towards knowing the differences, even in layman's methods, but the misinformation is in the media, and as we've seen, even the talking heads don't bother to educate themselves so they can educate the public to the extent they can. So I have NO idea what to do about this...but I believe something should be done.

Just some thoughts...

Best-
Herding Cats

I think attention spans are a bit of a problem here. It seems like many articles have the sensational comments from the family in the headlines and you have to scroll below the photos to read the educational bits from the medical experts at the end of the story. So some people just have knee-jerk responses on the basis of the headlines imo. They hear the words 'disconnect the life support' and are immediately against it because they were against it in the Schiavo case, never bothering to find out that this is nothing like the Schiavo case. They hear the words brain damage and instantly remember a dozen stories where doctors suggested the possibility of organ donation because the prognosis wasn't good and were wrong so the doctors must be wrong here too, never bothering to find out if it's likely that they're wrong here. They read that people are praying that Jahi's life support can continue and think that if people are praying for this it must be a good and desirable outcome. They hear the words pro-life and since they agree with pro-lifers that abortion is bad they think it must also be morally right to deny that Jahi is dead, never mind actually finding out why people think she is dead.

Then they write comments in the comment sections of news articles that show that they probably did not read the article, just the headline, because they're clearly misinformed about something that actually was explained in the article that they just commented on, if they'd just read it.