Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #5

[otto]

No, I didn't read the comments there.
I was reading some at another site though that were really frightening--attacks on the family, the attorney, the hospital staff.
I was more concerned that it seemed from what I saw on Dr. Drew that the hospital was being thrown under the bus by some of the talking heads who didn't know the difference between brain death and coma. And that the family's version of events was accepted at face value.
Maybe this case has been so polarizing just because beliefs, IMO, do on some level trump logic. People make decisions based not on logic or science but on their long held beliefs no matter what evidence is put in front of them.
I mean, look at the feuds that last for decades because of mistaken beliefs that no amount of logic can shift.
JMO, but the language that has been used by the family's atty has been chosen to appeal to beliefs rather than logic, and that may have caused reactions that seem out of proportion.

I should remember that while I've been reading the posts of very intelligent and articulate people who have explained complicated medical and ethical issues with care and with passion. The talking heads probably don't read information and debate of that calibre.

BBM
Therein lies the problem. The family went to the media and claimed that a thirteen year old niece was going to be killed in six hours, that after a "routine tonsillectomy" she was declared brain dead, but she's not really brain dead because that is an accidental prognosis, per the family.

Since that first declaration of "routine surgery on a healthy child" from the family, we have learned that this was anything but routine, that she was anything but healthy, and she was confirmed dead by five doctor (three independent of the hospital) prior to the court application, and there was a court appointed 6th confirmatory report from Dr Fisher. She is dead. Six doctors have confirmed it. There is no such thing as a miracle, Jesus is a bedtime story.

I suspect that the talking heads hire readers and her readers are sloppy. They've been especially sloppy in this case and it would serve Nancy Grace best if she were to step up to the plate and admit that after she is brain dead, she doesn't really think it's a good idea to preserve the functioning of her internal organs by artificial means until her corpuscles explode and her brain turns to soup.

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

If she is a 12 hrs drive from Oakland then that puts her near San Diego area.

IIRC, San Diego is more like 9 hours, especially driving overnight with no traffic. Another couple of hours would put you in the AZ desert... unless you went south to Mexico... and a lot of people do go to Mexico for medical treatment.

Sent from my KFOT using Tapatalk HD

 

[Marg from Oz]

Would she need a passport to get into Mexico? Or would a death certificate let her in?

 

[rob]

And I now feel like a wimp. It's 11 degrees here in SC. I can't imagine minus 29! However, thanks for the banana tip. My little ones will enjoy that experiment. :seeya:

I'm in SC, too. We ain't used to this. My dogs won't go out.

 

[Sonya610]

Would she need a passport to get into Mexico? Or would a death certificate let her in?

A passport isn't required for US citizens.

I didn't even think about Mexico. Who would pay for a facility in Mexico though? I would think it would also muddy up legal "evidence" in any court cases.

I seriously don't think they sent her to Mexico, sounds like they know she is dead now and they are just preparing for their lawsuits.

 

[Sonya610]

What really gets me is that NOW the family reveals just how far gone Jahi is, like it is a shock to them.

Someone here (sorry I forgot who, I think it was an R.N. though) said that when she left the hospital she was likely taken off of vassopressin (a drug to regulate blood pressure and fluid loss) and that could have caused massive fluid loss very quickly causing her to visibly decline within hours.

 

[popsicle]

Please forgive if this has been addressed...

This is all about the Uncle
Omari ‏@_iamOMARI 4h
CNN Nancy Grace & Uncle Omari Sealey http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/v...on-jahi-mcmath-brain-dead-body-moved.cnn.html … #cnn

Omari ‏@_iamOMARI 4h
From the new http://CNN.com : Uncle: I pray to see Jahi's smile again http://cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/us/2014/01/07/pmt-intv-sealey-jahi-mcmath-smile.cnn.html … #cnn

This is all about the Mom
Omari ‏@_iamOMARI 7h
And the winner is...Drum roll please...Nailah Winkfield!!! I love you sis, and keep in mind you are a… http://instagram.com/p/i20BqcIpgd/

This is all about Jahi
(crickets)

Mom's response to her star on the walk of fame...

marvsmisses
@iamomari um hm! Clears throat for acceptance speech....... Yes I personally would like to tell Children's Hospital and all the negative people in the world to kiss my entire *advertiser censored*!!! And thank you!

ETA links

http://instagram.com/p/i20BqcIpgd/

https://twitter.com/_iamOMARI

 

[popsicle]

Someone here (sorry I forgot who, I think it was an R.N. though) said that when she left the hospital she was likely taken off of vassopressin (a drug to regular blood pressure and fluid loss) and that could have caused massive fluid loss very quickly causing her to visibly decline within hours.

Reading the court filing on the Dr's exam on Friday 1/3.... if she was removed from vasopressin she would not have survived over the weekend. The emergency staff that transported her had everything they needed imo.

 

[Peliman]

imo - What my gut instinct tells me is that this girl won't be dead until mama says she's dead. Which shouldn't be too long now. JMO

 

[Herding Cats]

I had no idea this subject was so polarizing to the public. It is almost like personal beliefs and experiences trump medical science.

Honestly, I think it's less personal belief/experience than it is about anatomical and physiological understanding.

Most people don't know what part of the brain controls what - where the thoughts "live" and where the breathing center "lives", for example. They may understand the difference between "higher" and "lower" functions, but they don't understand how they actually function and what is dependent on which part of the brain.

I think a lot of folk don't understand the basic difference between "brain death" and PVS, too. Much less does one understand the difference between brain death, PVS, coma, deep coma, and so on.

So when people come up and say "my little Johnny was brain dead, and now he's valedictorian of his class", they honestly believe that's what happened. And of course it's not - we know that brain death is dead, just like Jahi.

And, again looking at this whole thing, I think even some medical professionals don't know or understand the differences...vis a vis Gramma.

How to correct this? Well, I don't really know. I think that this horrific tragedy could have gone a LONG way towards knowing the differences, even in layman's methods, but the misinformation is in the media, and as we've seen, even the talking heads don't bother to educate themselves so they can educate the public to the extent they can. So I have NO idea what to do about this...but I believe something should be done.

Just some thoughts...

Best-
Herding Cats

 

[gngr~snap]

I'm in SC, too. We ain't used to this. My dogs won't go out.

O/T
It is 4° north of Atlanta.
My dogs went "out" peed on the porch...it froze
Eww!
I just heard Lincoln Park Zoo had to bring the polar bears in! They don't have enough fat to stay warm! This is the coldest day in my 46 years!
Still thinking about you Jahi! May you fly with the angels soon dear girl!

Sent from my SGH-T679 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Herat]

Would she need a passport to get into Mexico? Or would a death certificate let her in?

US citizens don't need a passport to go into Mexico.

The living ones will need a passport to return to the US. Obviously Uncle Omari has one as he was infamously in Cabo San Lucas on the day of her surgery.

Returning the remains to the US would be more problematic and would probably need to involve the US Consulate to approve the process. It's not as if the US border crossing is going to allow a large box in the back of a car or ambulance to go uninspected. Of course, the court order from the Alameda or Contra Costa County coroner would facilitate that.

Once again, tying up resources for a hopeless cause.

 

[Softail]

imo - What my gut instinct tells me is that this girl won't be dead until mama says she's dead. Which shouldn't be too long now. JMO

I hope you are right. At this point, I'm not sure. I feel like they want this to go on as long as possible. IF she is at grannie's house, then nobody but them will know when her heart truly stops if it hasn't already. I fear this will go on and on, even after her heart stops. I truly hope I'm wrong and you are right. For Jahi's sake. :sigh:

 

[Softail]

Mom's response to her star on the walk of fame...

marvsmisses
@iamomari um hm! Clears throat for acceptance speech....... Yes I personally would like to tell Children's Hospital and all the negative people in the world to kiss my entire *advertiser censored*!!! And thank you!

Wowsers! Playing on twitter, keeping it classy.

 

[BiancaS]

Mom's response to her star on the walk of fame...

marvsmisses
@iamomari um hm! Clears throat for acceptance speech....... Yes I personally would like to tell Children's Hospital and all the negative people in the world to kiss my entire *advertiser censored*!!! And thank you!

OMG, I thought you were joking, she actually said this!!!! That little weasel of an attorney is probably cringing.

 

[meme4]

Mom seems to be making it pretty clear that this is all about her being right, it sickens me that after reading the drs report anyone, especially her mother can think what she is doing is right.......Death doesnt become her.........

 

[Herat]

Dr. Fiori's report will become very important in the upcoming lawsuits. It clearly demonstrates the condition of the body before the family received it.

The coroner's autopsy, and there will be one, will also be very important, because it will clearly detail the condition of the body at the other facility, and the absolute futility of improving her condition.

I am hoping the facility that has her physical shell and the people providing care to it will be ethical and honest when dealing with the cardiac death and not attempt to deceive authorities with the recorded time and date. Even if you don't believe in brain death, it is an offense against the law to fail to report the date and time of cardiac death to authorities.

The lawsuits will require sworn testimony, medical records, and other documentation. For example, the report of the transport team will be important.

All of the noise Dolan and the family are making now may be moot when it comes to the lawsuit.

CHO is being very wise and appropriate in their measured and polite responses to the outrageous things being said against them. They are also letting Dolan and the family hang themselves with their own rope.

 

[Soliloquy]

Cardinal Glennon is the only Catholic Children's hospital in the country.

I'm sure people are aware that Cardinal Glennon is in St. Louis. I lived there most of my life and have tons of family/friends still in the area. St. Louis and all surrounding areas were in the throes of an intense snowstorm Sunday, perhaps the worst in three decades, which dumped anywhere from 9" to 15" on them and was immediately followed by sub-zero temperatures and record-setting negative wind chills. Virtually everything was shut down Sunday night and Monday morning. All major schools are still closed today (Tuesday).

They did NOT move the body to Cardinal Glennon due to weather, so I think we can safely dispel that rumor.

 

[Softail]

BBM
Therein lies the problem. The family went to the media and claimed that a thirteen year old niece was going to be killed in six hours, that after a "routine tonsillectomy" she was declared brain dead, but she's not really brain dead because that is an accidental prognosis, per the family.

Since that first declaration of "routine surgery on a healthy child" from the family, we have learned that this was anything but routine, that she was anything but healthy, and she was confirmed dead by five doctor (three independent of the hospital) prior to the court application, and there was a court appointed 6th confirmatory report from Dr Fisher. She is dead. Six doctors have confirmed it. There is no such thing as a miracle, Jesus is a bedtime story.

I suspect that the talking heads hire readers and her readers are sloppy. They've been especially sloppy in this case and it would serve Nancy Grace best if she were to step up to the plate and admit that after she is brain dead, she doesn't really think it's a good idea to preserve the functioning of her internal organs by artificial means until her corpuscles explode and her brain turns to soup.

I haven't watched NG in a very long time, but by all of the comments, it seems nothing has changed.

What she is failing to see is that there are 2 parts to this story.

1. The surgery. Nobody knows if there was negligence or this was simply a case of complications, and she sadly died.

2. The death. Perhaps since NG's staff appears to be sloppy, and they do no fact checking. They need for viewers to supply them with the facts. Court documents, raw video interviews, etc....

To simply put this family on her show and take what they say at face value is irresponsible, and shameful at best. :twocents:

 

[kaki]

I haven't watched NG in a very long time, but by all of the comments, it seems nothing has changed.

What she is failing to see is that there are 2 parts to this story.

1. The surgery. Nobody knows if there was negligence or this was simply a case of complications, and she sadly died.

2. The death. Perhaps since NG's staff is lazy, and they do no fact checking. They need for viewers to supply them with the facts. Court documents, raw video interviews, etc....

To simply put this family on her show and take what they say at face value is irresponsible, and shameful at best. :twocents:

Since when was NG interested in facts? She needs a sensational story that she can pontificate over. The family would most certainly have not been on her show if she was interested in the actual facts...same goes for all the other media they have done...:banghead: