Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #5

[Softail]

Jahi McMath: Brain-dead girl moved to undisclosed care facility

"Jahi is at the facility," Christopher Dolan said in a telephone interview. He wouldn't disclose where Jahi was sent but did say the facility had stepped up to take the girl and the location not necessarily outside the state of California.

He also said the girl's body had "deteriorated so badly" during her treatment at the hospital that the long-term prognosis for survival is not an optimistic one.

"She's in very bad shape," he said. "Right now, we don't know if she's going to make it."

http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_24853880/jahi-mcmath-brain-dead-girl-moved-undisclosed-care


:banghead: :maddening:

Right, so they will let her go and blame the hospital for not feeding her.

 

[popsicle]

OAKLAND -- Jahi McMath arrived at an undisclosed care facility on Monday morning, but there remains much doubt about the girl's long-term prognosis after her removal from Children's Hospital Oakland on Sunday night, the family's attorney said Monday morning.

"Jahi is at the facility," Christopher Dolan said in a telephone interview. He wouldn't disclose where Jahi was sent but did say the facility had stepped up to take the girl and the location not necessarily outside the state of California.

He also said the girl's body had "deteriorated so badly" during her treatment at the hospital that the long-term prognosis for survival is not an optimistic one.

"She's in very bad shape," he said. "Right now, we don't know if she's going to make it."

http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_24853880/jahi-mcmath-brain-dead-girl-moved-undisclosed-care

 

[K_Z]

Jahi McMath: Brain-dead girl moved to undisclosed care facility

"Jahi is at the facility," Christopher Dolan said in a telephone interview. He wouldn't disclose where Jahi was sent but did say the facility had stepped up to take the girl and the location not necessarily outside the state of California.

He also said the girl's body had "deteriorated so badly" during her treatment at the hospital that the long-term prognosis for survival is not an optimistic one.

"She's in very bad shape," he said. "Right now, we don't know if she's going to make it."

http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_24853880/jahi-mcmath-brain-dead-girl-moved-undisclosed-care


:banghead:

Right, so they will let her go and blame the hospital for not feeding her.

Of course she is in bad shape. She has been dead for 24 days, at least. People just don't get better after being dead. :facepalm:

 

[Minette]

From popsicle's link, above, the ever-quixotic Mr. Dolan:

He also said the girl's body had "deteriorated so badly" during her treatment at the hospital that the long-term prognosis for survival is not an optimistic one.

"She's in very bad shape," he said. "Right now, we don't know if she's going to make it."

Yes, being dead since December 12 is hard to overcome.

He is so far off in Ridiculous World now that I don't know how he will ever claim a shred of credibility ever again.

 

[Arkgirl]

Since she is being pumped full of oxygen is she going to decompose?

Also isn't the lack of brain activity damaging her brain?

I really wonder what the true motives of the parents are. Even if she would happen to "wake up" she would probably have no quality of life and now, she has no quality of life.

I haven't been keeping up with threads on WS on this, but I have read multiple media reports on it. From everything the parents have stated, she was fine before surgery. No she wasn't, she was suffering diseases that are normally associated with obese adults. They said she was fine when she woke up, laughing and talking. They then stated that the nurses were "rude" when telling them Jahi needs to rest, no talking. Before any complications, they were already critical of the hospital staff, and to me it seems like they would have found something wrong even if she would have come out of this surgery successful, and alive.

Then she got a Popsicle. That's fairly common in a normal tonsillectomy, but Jahi had a lot more done that just removal of the tonsils. But did they sneak her any other food? She starts bleeding, clots, which is a good thing. And instead of following the orders to let her bleed into the cups so the doctor could measure the clots, Grandma sections her throat, which IMO is what ultimately killed the poor girl.

I honestly feel like they are trying to let her heal so the coroner cannot determine the suctioning as cause of death. I may be wrong but I think Grandma can go to jail for doing that and lose her nursing license. I sound like a looney conspiracy theorist, but I can see no other reason to watch your child decompose other than to save a family member from going to jail.

I am not a medical professional, I could be completely wrong. This is all the opinion of a person who thinks this family should let their daughter rest in peace.

 

[Donjeta]

But I thought she was improving.

 

[NevadaMom]

I'd like to share one way it is possible to "adjust" the interpretation of what the family of Jahi McMath is doing with their efforts at sustaining her physical body in the presence of absolute brain death. This is what I think the mediation agreement is.

The coroner always has the authority and leeway to allow families to perform various cultural and religious/ personal rituals with the bodies of their loved ones, as long as not prohibited by law or the situation. The coroner also is the authority to allow transport of dead bodies by family members, under certain circumstances, and in accordance with laws.

It helps me a lot to "frame" what the family is doing in this manner-- as "personal religious and cultural rituals".

In that manner, the coroner has perhaps decided to view the potential trach and feeding tube as "religious rituals" performed on the dead for the benefit of the family, rather than desecrating a corpse. I think the coroner has magnanimously bestowed the gift of patience and time on this family, to perform whatever rituals and transportation they discussed. To be sure, none of the "things" done to Jahi Mc Math's body at this point will be considered medical care.

I believe that if any licensed health care providers are involved with inserting tubes and whatnot, they will claim that they performed these as "religious rituals" that were discussed with the coroner, and approved. I don't believe any health care providers will be charged with anything. They are too smart for that. Presumably any HC providers involved have considered the impact on their reputation, insurance, and career future, and still wish to participate in these "religious and cultural rituals" on Jahi Mc Math's body.

It would help a lot, IMO, if the NB place in NY would also consider and market themselves a cultural and religious "institution", instead of pretending that they are some kind of licensed authentic health care facility (instead of the truth that they are a nonprofit that rents physical space to consolidate services). They are offering to provide a temporary place for the family to move and store the body, while they continue to carry out their version of personal, religious, and cultural rituals on the body of their loved one.

It maybe sounds a bit blunt to put it this way, but it really fits with state laws, and helps to reframe some of the astonishment and other extreme emotions some of us are feeling about what the family is doing.

BBM.

So do people get to set and define their own religious rituals to adhere to what they want in a situation like this? I get that Hasidic Jews do not maintain a belief in brain death. It's not like 1 person out of all the Hasidic Jews just decided on a whim "hey, we totally don't believe that nonsense!". And from what I read this family is Baptist.

IMO that's where this is really overstepping boundaries of ethics, because this family is choosing their beliefs as they go along to conform with what they want, not what is best for the remains of their daughter. It's a slippery slope that they (or anyone else for that matter) can just saunter into a courtroom and get their way despite what the medical community and the law say.

:moo:

OT, I really do like that cow.. :moo::moo:

 

[BeginnersLuck]

Jahi McMath: Brain-dead girl moved to undisclosed care facility

"Jahi is at the facility," Christopher Dolan said in a telephone interview. He wouldn't disclose where Jahi was sent but did say the facility had stepped up to take the girl and the location not necessarily outside the state of California.

He also said the girl's body had "deteriorated so badly" during her treatment at the hospital that the long-term prognosis for survival is not an optimistic one.

"She's in very bad shape," he said. "Right now, we don't know if she's going to make it."

http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_24853880/jahi-mcmath-brain-dead-girl-moved-undisclosed-care


:banghead:

Right, so they will let her go and blame the hospital for not feeding her.

Here we go with the blaming of the hospital, that kept and cared for her in ICU, if her heart stops beating. Just because she was moved from the hospital this bashing of them will not stop. It will continue on and on...along with the hate phone calls, messages, etc.

 

[jjenny]

Of course she is in bad shape. She has been dead for 24 days, at least. People just don't get better after being dead. :facepalm:

They normally don't.
All of this would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad.

 

[popsicle]

Dolan said procedures deemed necessary for a facility to take Jahi were not yet performed, including feeding and tracheotomy tubes, because other physical issues have arisen in the aftermath of her care at the hospital. He would not disclose what those issues were but said Jahi has been examined by independent doctors since her release.

"What I can tell you is that those examinations show that her medical condition, separate from the brain issue, is not good," Dolan said.

Because nobody wants to do them. imo

 

[meme4]

At a news conference Sunday night, Omari Sealey, the girl's uncle, and family attorney Christopher Dolan declined to say where the girl was being taken, citing privacy and security concerns.

http://www.sfgate.com/health/article/Brain-dead-Jahi-McMath-released-to-her-family-5116262.php

Now they want privacy, we will see how long the Uncle can go without saying something misleading.....I am wondering why he thinks he has any money owed to him, it isnt his kid......I see this as no victory for anyone, it is just so wrong to me..They have no idea of what lies ahead.....If she is moved out of state will they continue to sit by her bedside , that is not realistic....As for that hairdresser who doesnt seem to know exactly what her father was(brain damaged, coma, or brain dead), you are not a dr. Also by having her released to the coroner doesnt that kinda acknowlege she's in fact deceased, dont think coroners deal with live bodies...jmo

 

[Donjeta]

"...the long-term prognosis for survival is not an optimistic one."

That is probably the first true thing that Dolan has said about Jahi's condition. Once someone's been dead for nearly a month the prognosis is never good.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Anyone want to bet that "someone" was tailing the ambulance that transported Jahi to the mystery location? There's a photo of the emergency vehicle outside the hospital, so it's probably safe to assume that there are more pictures and possibly video. :moo:

 

[jjenny]

But I thought she was improving.

Before she was removed from the hospital, family members are quoted as saying she is moving and has the best glow to her. Now all of the sudden she is in very poor shape.

 

[jjenny]

"...the long-term prognosis for survival is not an optimistic one."

That is probably the first true thing that Dolan has said about Jahi's condition. Once someone's been dead for nearly a month the prognosis is never good.

Not good at all.
It's very hard to survive after being dead for while.

 

[mck16]

I'd like to share one way it is possible to "adjust" the interpretation of what the family of Jahi McMath is doing with their efforts at sustaining her physical body in the presence of absolute brain death. This is what I think the mediation agreement is.

The coroner always has the authority and leeway to allow families to perform various cultural and religious/ personal rituals with the bodies of their loved ones, as long as not prohibited by law or the situation. The coroner also is the authority to allow transport of dead bodies by family members, under certain circumstances, and in accordance with laws.

It helps me a lot to "frame" what the family is doing in this manner-- as "personal religious and cultural rituals".

In that manner, the coroner has perhaps decided to view the potential trach and feeding tube as "religious rituals" performed on the dead for the benefit of the family, rather than desecrating a corpse. I think the coroner has magnanimously bestowed the gift of patience and time on this family, to perform whatever rituals and transportation they discussed. To be sure, none of the "things" done to Jahi Mc Math's body at this point will be considered medical care.

I believe that if any licensed health care providers are involved with inserting tubes and whatnot, they will claim that they performed these as "religious rituals" that were discussed with the coroner, and approved. I don't believe any health care providers will be charged with anything. They are too smart for that. Presumably any HC providers involved have considered the impact on their reputation, insurance, and career future, and still wish to participate in these "religious and cultural rituals" on Jahi Mc Math's body.

It would help a lot, IMO, if the NB place in NY would also consider and market themselves a cultural and religious "institution", instead of pretending that they are some kind of licensed authentic health care facility (instead of the truth that they are a nonprofit that rents physical space to consolidate services). They are offering to provide a temporary place for the family to move and store the body, while they continue to carry out their version of personal, religious, and cultural rituals on the body of their loved one.

It maybe sounds a bit blunt to put it this way, but it really fits with state laws, and helps to reframe some of the astonishment and other extreme emotions some of us are feeling about what the family is doing.

You could be right, but if she is a Baptist there are no rituals performed on a dead body in this religion. Not at least the one I belong to. Kind of brings voodoo to mind or zombies. Just kidding, (I hope so at least). But definitely not Baptist. jmo

 

[popsicle]

Henry K. Lee ‏@henryklee 1m
Short vid released by family of brain-dead teen #JahiMcMath shows caravan w/ #Falck ambulance SB 880 at Fruitvale in Oakland to points unkn


I haven't seen a video but this guy is a reporter... the family seriously released a video.

 

[jjenny]

Because nobody wants to do them. imo

That would be my guess as well.
Her heart could probably stop during these procedures. Who in the world wants to be doing these procedures considering the family could easily blame them for "killing" her?

 

[meme4]

What I can tell you is that those examinations show that her medical condition, separate from the brain issue, is not good," Dolan said.

No kidding, she's been deceased for almost a month....I thought they wanted privacy......:banghead:

 

[ChristYTN]

My initial thought on all of this was exactly this... The grandmother used the suction and caused a problem. Not to mention the fact of all the family being around her directly after this NOT ROUTINE SURGERY (I swear I'm going to go nuts the next news story I hear say 'routine surgery')
I'm willing to bet momma brought her 'thick girl' some food and grandmother took nursing care into her own hands.
They may have thought if they keep her as is for so long, there will be no more evidence that something went afoul without proper medical care.

Well...there is soon going to be horrific things happen to this dead child and I wonder if anyone has prepared them for what her body is going to do. And the fact that her poor little head is liquefied mush right now.

I haven't been keeping up with threads on WS on this, but I have read multiple media reports on it. From everything the parents have stated, she was fine before surgery. No she wasn't, she was suffering diseases that are normally associated with obese adults. They said she was fine when she woke up, laughing and talking. They then stated that the nurses were "rude" when telling them Jahi needs to rest, no talking. Before any complications, they were already critical of the hospital staff, and to me it seems like they would have found something wrong even if she would have come out of this surgery successful, and alive.

Then she got a Popsicle. That's fairly common in a normal tonsillectomy, but Jahi had a lot more done that just removal of the tonsils. But did they sneak her any other food? She starts bleeding, clots, which is a good thing. And instead of following the orders to let her bleed into the cups so the doctor could measure the clots, Grandma sections her throat, which IMO is what ultimately killed the poor girl.

I honestly feel like they are trying to let her heal so the coroner cannot determine the suctioning as cause of death. I may be wrong but I think Grandma can go to jail for doing that and lose her nursing license. I sound like a looney conspiracy theorist, but I can see no other reason to watch your child decompose other than to save a family member from going to jail.

I am not a medical professional, I could be completely wrong. This is all the opinion of a person who thinks this family should let their daughter rest in peace.

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