Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #6

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
No. No fox. No chickens.



Peer evaluation in an academic setting is not a group of old-boys-club guys sitting around and going along to get along with whatever. It is absolutely stark and relentless simply because everyone on whatever committee is struck is an expert in their field, and has definite ideas as to what standards exist, what standards are ideal, what standards are acceptable, and what standards are unacceptable. Every person on an academic committee is highly articulate, very experienced and extremely competitive or they would not be in the position they hold in order to be recommended to sit on a review panel.



These people are chosen by their peers which is not to say they are chosen by colleagues. IMO, most would not hesitate to point out errors in judgement in order to demonstrate how they work within their own practices. If they accept sloppy work by their peers, they will be considered by many others in their field to have poor standards within their own studies, research, practice. These highly intelligent, disciplined and educated people will not allow anything to get by their investigation. They will, again IMO, do extensive research to be sure their information is up to date before even beginning to consider the circumstances the committee is required to investigate.



Back in the day, the most competitive academics were to be found in the fields of medicine. Those people invited to be part of the McMath case review would not be drawn from any one hospital or university to prevent accusations of bias, and they will all be aware of the knowledge and skills of the other members. No one will want to appear to be coasting. If asked to conduct a review of fellow medical professionals, I think you can be assured that every member of a peer review board would become conversant with every aspect of the pre-surgical tests and diagnosis, the surgical procedures, the care given after surgery, the activities of all medical and support staff from the time the surgery was scheduled to the time Miss McMath was released from CHO. They would not just skim over news articles.



Although lay people, like me, might have a lot of questions about what happened, there is no way someone not conversant with current standards and procedures, however well intentioned or impassioned, would be able to evaluate the answers to those questions. The technical references, the jargon used by people who work in medicine are very specific. The connotations of words and phrases understood by those people would not be understood in the same way by those outside of the field without lengthy explanations, if then. In fact, because lay people don't know all the ramifications of small details, all the necessary questions would probably not be asked. As well, IIRC, the review committee or panel will not receive any remuneration for their service, so their only goal is to maintain a high standard of practice. (I'm sure someone will correct this if I'm mistaken.)



Although I think that it is sometimes felt that "doctors/nurses/etc. all stick together", and that preconceived idea is certainly out there (ie. Seinfeld, Season 8, Episode 5), I don't believe it's true. The science and art of medicine is, I think, best examined and defended, by those who are its practitioners. I cannot imagine that a peer review board would accept the inept work of a "quack" just because the person in question was likeable, or a friend, or associated with a celebrity. Part of having a professional organization is being, to some extent, being capable of self-policing and removing people from the organization who are not practicing the standards held by that organization.



That said, human beings make mistakes. Further, sometimes even when no mistakes have been made, unexpected things happen, and tragedies occur. The fact that a tragedy happens does not mean that the medical team involved wanted something to go wrong because they wanted to punish someone or because they were to lazy to care. When death happens in a place like CHO, people are devastated and want to determine what happened in the hope that it can be prevented from happening again. It will never be swept under the rug. Yes, right now there is no transparency, and it is because medical professionals follow HIPPA, and because the family will not allow information to be released.



The cause of the McMath tragedy must now be determined by medical experts from the evidence of records and witnesses, not from hearsay and the conjecture of those who may stand to profit from a particular conclusion. Again, I'm sure my errors will be corrected, but I think once the facts involved in this case are determined, it will then be time to move to a formal, legal arena in which all the laws of evidence are upheld and in which those whose specialty is the law as it pertains to medicine will go further in assigning innocence or blame.



It will be, IMO, at that point that the family lawyer's propensity to conjure up a straw man when he wants to malign the medical staff of CHO. I personally am looking forward to seeing CHO's legal team pick him apart for doing this.



Finally, a judge or jury will have the opportunity to make a verdict that could have financial consequences.



I look forward to hearing the opinions of the many posters who are experts in these fields.


I wanted to personally thank you for taking the time to so thoroughly explain it:) I appreciate it.

Quick question...are only cases where a death occurred brought forward? How are cases determined to be reviewed?

Again thank you


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
We are glad your gag reflexes working. Please don't run around the room flapping your hands and making high pitched noises if you have food or drink in your mouth. You don't want to over stress your gag reflex. At home I have a very sensitive gag reflex but on the job I have learned to move through it in some cases. Clenching teeth helps.

Isabelle, here's my problem: if someone else (human, feline, canine, etc.) gags, *I* gag, too! The cat will be hacking up a hairball 'hrk hrk hrk' and the next thing you know here *I* am 'hrk hrk hrk.' Afterwards I continue going 'hrk hrk hrk' while cleaning up the cat mess and my husband runs around in circles waving his hands and making high pitched noises and occasionally handing me a paper towel. :floorlaugh:
 
I thought I heard that JM was diagnosed with diabetes??? Is this true? Type 1 or 2? TIA
 
As I posted up thread, I really think the focus on food is really important to NW. Perhaps she has equated feeding her children with being a good, loving mom. If it has been a prominent part of her family and culture, her desire for this g tube may be what she needed to feel she has done all that she could for her daughter.

I have 3 friends that are of Italian heritage and they are excellent cooks. I know they equate cooking food with love. I am not a good cook, so going to their homes to feast is a celebration.

Which brings me to this. What if the family while visiting Jahi post recovery in the PICU, snuck Jahi some of their food because she was hungry? She would have been NPO for hours prior to surgery. What if they gave her a cracker, a French fry or something, not realizing that it would have dire consequences? It would not be the first time family members thinking they were helping or loving, did not follow the instructions they were given. Food for thought....

You put my own thoughts into words, exactly. Food is some people's "love language."
 
A heart doesn't need a body in order to beat. Can jjenny put her grandfather's heart in a jar and oxygenate it so that it beats and then collect his pension. What if Jahi's heart was removed from her body and beating was maintained artificially (as it is now, basically but still in her body), would that be different?

Awesome very short video to show this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sy9F-ekPHc
 
How about this for a deal: *I* deal with all your rotten vegetable issues (and I'll even throw in litter box accidents because I have plenty of experience with those) and *you* handle all my mucous suctioning needs! :floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

:notgood: lol You all are crazy.
 
A heart doesn't need a body in order to beat. Can jjenny put her grandfather's heart in a jar and oxygenate it so that it beats and then collect his pension. What if Jahi's heart was removed from her body and beating was maintained artificially (as it is now, basically but still in her body), would that be different?


You would have to ask her mother, but my money would be placed on "yes different" if I were guessing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I have a medical question. What about people in medically induced comas? Or people that were on a ventilator and later a trac for assisted breathing for a month? The ones that didn't have a feeding tube inserted because it was only a month or so...and they were expected to recover. What happens to their digestive system and how is it different?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There is LOTS of information on this, if you want to read more. Basically, if they have an ileus (no bowel sounds and no propulsive peristalsis), they are bowel rested until there is evidence of return of bowel sounds and peristalsis. IV feeding is implemented during bowel rest. Then the oral diet, or the enteral feeds are advanced VERY gradually-- diluted, low volumes, etc. to assess tolerance.

If their bowel is "dead" from ischemia (low oxygen), or another cause, then the dead bowel has to be resected, or removed, surgically. Depending on how much dead bowel there is, the person may have to have a colostomy.

Edited to add: It all depends on perfusion of the gut. Blood pressure, mean arterial pressure, etc. A person who is "viable" will have more aggressive efforts at pharmacologically maintaining blood pressure than someone who has been declared brain dead. And a living brain, even in coma, still is neurohormonally functional to some extent. Jahi's entire neuroendocrine system is "missing". That affects every body system.
 
As I posted up thread, I really think the focus on food is really important to NW. Perhaps she has equated feeding her children with being a good, loving mom. If it has been a prominent part of her family and culture, her desire for this g tube may be what she needed to feel she has done all that she could for her daughter.

I have 3 friends that are of Italian heritage and they are excellent cooks. I know they equate cooking food with love. I am not a good cook, so going to their homes to feast is a celebration.

Which brings me to this. What if the family while visiting Jahi post recovery in the PICU, snuck Jahi some of their food because she was hungry? She would have been NPO for hours prior to surgery. What if they gave her a cracker, a French fry or something, not realizing that it would have dire consequences? It would not be the first time family members thinking they were helping or loving, did not follow the instructions they were given. Food for thought....

I don't even understand why she was sucking on a Popsicle so soon after surgery -- especially with the amount of surgery she had to her throat. I sure hope no one brought something in and fed it to her.

MOO

Mel
 
There are lots of places where bacteria, and maybe fungi are overgrowing in a body when there is no spontanous respiration, cough, gag, peristalsis, muscular movement. Lots of places for secretions to build up and get overgrown with bacteria and fungi, lots of places that can't be cleaned or maintained.

Horrible. Any thoughts on how Jahi's condition effects her immune system.

The doc managing Jahi's care may be placating the family because he knows that the end will come no matter what. IMO, what harm can be done as in "first do no harm"?
 
..SHE isnt dead..and in particular, Certainly her parents and FAmily dont believe that...

However Brain injuries due to LACK OF Oxygen Jahi sustained Brain damage
BTW..Its called TPN....Nutrients infused to nurture cellular sustainings....Maybe Google may help ut understanding how it all works....

Not brain injury. Brain death. You do not recover from brain death.

I haven't read the medical records, have you? How are you so sure of the findings of her hospitalization.
 
Isabelle, here's my problem: if someone else (human, feline, canine, etc.) gags, *I* gag, too! The cat will be hacking up a hairball 'hrk hrk hrk' and the next thing you know here *I* am 'hrk hrk hrk.' Afterwards I continue going 'hrk hrk hrk' while cleaning up the cat mess and my husband runs around in circles waving his hands and making high pitched noises and occasionally handing me a paper towel. :floorlaugh:

Sounds like my house. But you'd have to throw in this only happens between the hours of 12AM and 6AM! Sorry -- carry on.
 
I truly hate to tell ya sweet pea..BUT just because electrical activety decreases..DOES not mean the Body decays..All it means is electrical activity doesn opporate thru the usal highways....you deem her DEAD..BUT as a 44 year Veteran of Fronline and Critical Care..SHE isnt dead..and in particular, Certainly her parents and FAmily dont believe that...

However Brain injuries due to LACK OF Oxygen due to CHO (hospitals lack of monitoring)Negligence, Jahi sustained Brain damage...Electrical activity does NOT mean decomp..nor decay...All it means is she since CHO hasnt bothered to give her any Nutrients..has "Deteriorate"..FAR from Decomposition...

All I can say is> Just walk one block in the shoes of folks like this..just maybe one may have some sympathy and empathy for what this hospitals negligence has forced them into....Thats about it...

BTW..Its called TPN....Nutrients infused to nurture cellular sustainings....Maybe Google may help ut understanding how it all works....

It seems to me..empathy and compassion for this child and family is lost for some..BUT having dealt with such..I just cant abide with such harsh judgements..especially when I read alot of speculations and opinions NOT based on Medical data's..Instead..based on blogs and innuendo's and believe me CHO has not been forthcoming on their part in this at all..IMO :seeya:
No, not from the reports about Jahi. The doctors>>> more than one>>> said she is BRAIN DEAD.
NOT BRAIN DAMAGED. Big difference. HUGE difference.
 
I don't even understand why she was sucking on a Popsicle so soon after surgery -- especially with the amount of surgery she had to her throat. I sure hope no one brought something in and fed it to her.



MOO



Mel


My husband was given one. It's all he had for about 3 days. He had the exact same surgery for apnea. Except he was outpatient.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I have to say, here I am being a goofball and then someone like wendiesan comes in with a tour de force post and feel like I need to do the Ashlee Simpson shuffle. But that's the beauty of WS--so many thoughtful, insightful, passionate, educated people and the occasional craziness to season it all!

P.S. I am much prettier than seattlechiquita, just ask my mom!
 
This totally happens. I had my ex husband sneak me in contraband the evening I gave birth to our youngest. I'd had a C-Section and was on clear liquids still.


As I posted up thread, I really think the focus on food is really important to NW. Perhaps she has equated feeding her children with being a good, loving mom. If it has been a prominent part of her family and culture, her desire for this g tube may be what she needed to feel she has done all that she could for her daughter.

I have 3 friends that are of Italian heritage and they are excellent cooks. I know they equate cooking food with love. I am not a good cook, so going to their homes to feast is a celebration.

Which brings me to this. What if the family while visiting Jahi post recovery in the PICU, snuck Jahi some of their food because she was hungry? She would have been NPO for hours prior to surgery. What if they gave her a cracker, a French fry or something, not realizing that it would have dire consequences? It would not be the first time family members thinking they were helping or loving, did not follow the instructions they were given. Food for thought....
 
A couple of questions, which I have not seen specifically addressed:

1) So if she had these surgeries "successfully" today, did they put her under anesthesia or ... what? How exactly would that work as far as pain meds ... I shudder to think but I need to know.

2) When Jahi's family was allowed to take her body, did her family have to release the hospital of liability for EVERYTHING, or just for what happens after releasing her body? I can't see the hospital agreeing to the removal without some serious stipulations, the least of which would be releasing CHO from liability.

This is getting more morbid by the day, what a farce.
 
Isabelle, here's my problem: if someone else (human, feline, canine, etc.) gags, *I* gag, too! The cat will be hacking up a hairball 'hrk hrk hrk' and the next thing you know here *I* am 'hrk hrk hrk.' Afterwards I continue going 'hrk hrk hrk' while cleaning up the cat mess and my husband runs around in circles waving his hands and making high pitched noises and occasionally handing me a paper towel. :floorlaugh:

Lol. Cat/hairball gets me, but much worse is someone who spits. I absolutely cannot tolerate that!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
96
Guests online
2,065
Total visitors
2,161

Forum statistics

Threads
599,464
Messages
18,095,702
Members
230,862
Latest member
jusslikeme
Back
Top