Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #6

[mck16]

I have a medical question. What about people in medically induced comas? Or people that were on a ventilator and later a trac for assisted breathing for a month? The ones that didn't have a feeding tube inserted because it was only a month or so...and they were expected to recover. What happens to their digestive system and how is it different?
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they are not dead. Their bodies still function.

 

[Herat]

So if she is getting medications to regulate her blood pressure, and antiobiotics, and ventilation, and steroids, and some sort of enteral feedings, apparently by Dr. Bynre, does it ever occur to him that he is the one "playing God" by artificially keeping some organs functioning?

 

[liljim]

What proof is there of any negligence on the part of the hospital?

 

[LyndyLoo]

I don't even understand why she was sucking on a Popsicle so soon after surgery -- especially with the amount of surgery she had to her throat. I sure hope no one brought something in and fed it to her.

MOO

Mel

When anyone has throat surgery..especially Tonsils..First thing they want is something soothing..AKA cold liquid...My guess if you didnt have a T7A ..you wouldnt understand that..or just maybe if you DID..you forgot..I still to this day recall sucking on a cold icey thingy after my T&A and I was 4 years old...BTW That was over 60 years ago...Sometimes memories just arent ever forgotten....Kids only realize "Sore Throats"..they have NO insights to actual bodily injuries from surgery....

It's a basic thing and common post-op T&A..It's fluids..Cold and soothing...and BTW supplied by Hospital NOT parents..Just for a FYI..

 

[CHERIE.T]

Lol. Cat/hairball gets me, but much worse is someone who spits. I absolutely cannot tolerate that!

Good thing you're not with a red neck fishing from a creek. They constantly spit. :floorlaugh:

 

[K_Z]

I thought I heard that JM was diagnosed with diabetes??? Is this true? Type 1 or 2? TIA

We don't know. AFAIK, it hasn't been released by any family members.

But because of her morbid obesity and severity of her sleep apnea, and family reports of weight gain, there is widespread speculation she could have had some degree of metabolic syndrome, and/ or Type 2 diabetes.

Type 1 is a primary lack of insulin. No one has said she had Type 1. Type 2 is insulin resistance at the cellular level.

But it's all just speculation. No confirmation.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

What proof is there of any negligence on the part of the hospital?

None to date. Per court order, the hospital is not allowed to discuss any aspect of the case publicly.

 

[popsicle]

Christopher Dolan ‏@cbdlaw 7m
I can Confirm that today trache & g tube procedure on Jahi McMath was a success, she is doing very well

Christopher Dolan ‏@cbdlaw 6m
and now getting the treatment she should have gotten 28 days ago. Family is seeking to focus attention on Jahi and no press conference.

Christopher Dolan ‏@cbdlaw 7m
Doctors are optimistic that her condition has stabilized and that her health is improving from when she was taken from CHO

 

[Egghead]

According to the Flori report, diabetes insipidus set in when her brain ceased to function.It is not actually related to diabetes mellitus, type 1 or 2, but I suspect she had type 2 based on her size and other comorbidities.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Neither. She has diabetes insipidus http://kidney.niddk.nih.gov/kudiseases/pubs/insipidus/

Do you have a link that she was dx'd with it?


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[CHERIE.T]

Christopher Dolan ‏@cbdlaw 7m
I can Confirm that today trache & g tube procedure on Jahi McMath was a success, she is doing very well

Christopher Dolan ‏@cbdlaw 6m
and now getting the treatment she should have gotten 28 days ago. Family is seeking to focus attention on Jahi and no press conference.

Christopher Dolan ‏@cbdlaw 7m
Doctors are optimistic that her condition has stabilized and that her health is improving from when she was taken from CHO

b b m
:facepalm: :banghead: smh

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

SF Chronicle Health ‏@SFCHealth 3h

#JahiMcMath case used as tool in political fundraising effort http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/matie...th-case-used-as-Consumer-Watchdog-5123174.php …

The case of Jahi McMath, the 13-year-old girl who was declared brain-dead after a tonsillectomy at Children's Hospital Oakland, is now the centerpiece of a political fundraising effort aimed at lifting California's $250,000 cap for pain and suffering awards in medical malpractice cases.

Consumer Watchdog, a Southern California nonprofit that has teamed up with the state's trial lawyers on a proposed November ballot initiative to lift the limit, just sent out a mailer to supporters saying, "Hospitals like Children's actually have an incentive to let children like Jahi die.

 

[liljim]

Is a popsicle a liquid?

"Sucking" anything (ie use of straws, what one might do with a popsicle) would be discouraged after oral surgery, would that apply here as well?

I would think anything that encouraged gulping or sucking would be out of bounds but im no expert...

 

[Herat]

Christopher Dolan ‏@cbdlaw 7m
I can Confirm that today trache & g tube procedure on Jahi McMath was a success, she is doing very well

Christopher Dolan ‏@cbdlaw 6m
and now getting the treatment she should have gotten 28 days ago. Family is seeking to focus attention on Jahi and no press conference.

Christopher Dolan ‏@cbdlaw 7m
Doctors are optimistic that her condition has stabilized and that her health is improving from when she was taken from CHO

Hey Mr. Dolan -how about releasing those medical records from Top Secret Live Loving Longterm Care Center to let everyone see for themselves?

You know, just like you were asking CHO to do?

Or is do the family and Top Secret Life Loving Longterm Care Center staff have something to hide? Just like you accused CHO of doing?

Huh, how about it?

 

[Yoda]

A couple of questions, which I have not seen specifically addressed:

1) So if she had these surgeries "successfully" today, did they put her under anesthesia or ... what? How exactly would that work as far as pain meds ... I shudder to think but I need to know.

2) When Jahi's family was allowed to take her body, did her family have to release the hospital of liability for EVERYTHING, or just for what happens after releasing her body? I can't see the hospital agreeing to the removal without some serious stipulations, the least of which would be releasing CHO from liability.

This is getting more morbid by the day, what a farce.

:welcome:

 

[I Object!]

CHO cannot be forthcoming, they are prohibited by federal law to discuss the particulars of the case. As a veteran of critical care I needn't remind you. Further, there isn't any proof that CHO was negligent. I would agree there was a perfect storm of sorts, but to pass judgment on CHO when you only have hearsay is premature.

I have great sympathy for the family. I have great sympathy for anyone who has to endure the prolonged death of a child, no matter the circumstances. But you don't have the facts, and I don't have the facts.

I truly hate to tell ya sweet pea..BUT just because electrical activety decreases..DOES not mean the Body decays..All it means is electrical activity doesn opporate thru the usal highways....you deem her DEAD..BUT as a 44 year Veteran of Fronline and Critical Care..SHE isnt dead..and in particular, Certainly her parents and FAmily dont believe that...

However Brain injuries due to LACK OF Oxygen due to CHO (hospitals lack of monitoring)Negligence, Jahi sustained Brain damage...Electrical activity does NOT mean decomp..nor decay...All it means is she since CHO hasnt bothered to give her any Nutrients..has "Deteriorate"..FAR from Decomposition...

All I can say is> Just walk one block in the shoes of folks like this..just maybe one may have some sympathy and empathy for what this hospitals negligence has forced them into....Thats about it...

BTW..Its called TPN....Nutrients infused to nurture cellular sustainings....Maybe Google may help ut understanding how it all works....

It seems to me..empathy and compassion for this child and family is lost for some..BUT having dealt with such..I just cant abide with such harsh judgements..especially when I read alot of speculations and opinions NOT based on Medical data's..Instead..based on blogs and innuendo's and believe me CHO has not been forthcoming on their part in this at all..IMO :seeya:

 

[newmrsc]

Christopher Dolan ‏@cbdlaw 7m
I can Confirm that today trache & g tube procedure on Jahi McMath was a success, she is doing very well

Christopher Dolan ‏@cbdlaw 6m
and now getting the treatment she should have gotten 28 days ago. Family is seeking to focus attention on Jahi and no press conference.

Christopher Dolan ‏@cbdlaw 7m
Doctors are optimistic that her condition has stabilized and that her health is improving from when she was taken from CHO

Sigh. I just like how the "request for privacy" means we get these misleading and one-sided announcements and no actual information. If you really want privacy, please stop with the rosy status updates. :banghead: MOO

 

[popsicle]

Is a popsicle a liquid?

"Sucking" anything (ie use of straws, what one might do with a popsicle) would be discouraged after oral surgery, would that apply here as well?

I would think anything that encouraged gulping or sucking would be out of bounds but im no expert...

:blushing:

 

[LyndyLoo]

No, not from the reports about Jahi. The doctors>>> more than one>>> said she is BRAIN DEAD.
NOT BRAIN DAMAGED. Big difference. HUGE difference.

Im just going to day it simply as a person who assisted physicians assessing brain dead patients....ALL brain dead means is LACK or deficient Brain electrical activity...So If you dont wish to believe LACK of Oxygen causes Brain damage FIne..BUT it does...from my experience..Take it for what its worth...

The only reason Jahi suffered that lack of Oxygen is because ICU staff werent monitoring nor assisting her..left her family to deal with her bleed out..Sudden Blood loss..does cause such injuries...

Unless you have some sort of link to suggest any difference..i will agree to disagree on your premise..:seeya:

 

[K_Z]

A couple of questions, which I have not seen specifically addressed:

1) So if she had these surgeries "successfully", did they put her under anesthesia or ... what? How exactly would that work as far as pain meds ... I shudder to think but I need to know.

2) When Jahi's family was allowed to take her body, did her family have to release the hospital of liability for EVERYTHING, or just for what happens after releasing her body? I can't see the hospital agreeing to the removal without some serious stipulations, the least of which would be releasing CHO from liability.

This is getting more morbid by the day, what a farce.

Welcome to Websleths! :fence:

BBM. Donors for organ procurement do receive anesthesia, to optimize organs to give recipients the best chance at recovery. Spinal reflexes are still present in brain dead donors, and release of endogenous catecholamines in response to pull/ stretch surgical stimulation can produce deleterious effects on BP, MAP, and organ function (like heart arrhythmias). So, donors are typically given titrated doses of anesthetic agents (gas), as well as sometimes small doses of narcotics, and paralytics.

Those who do anesthesia for procurement are really experts at balancing all of the physiological issues to optimize the organs, and work closely with the procurement surgeon and team (who come from OUTSIDE the hospital and are not affiliated with the hospital or care of the donor before the diagnosis of brain death.)

Here is a very personal look into the thoughts of an organ procurement surgeon. I think it's a fascinating glimpse into their world.

"Dead Enough?" Dr. Pauline Chen

http://www.vqronline.org/articles/2005/fall/chen-dead-enough/

Added: We have no idea if Jahi's body was given any anesthesia for the trach and g-tube. Her family didn't tweet one way or the other, just that it was done.