Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #6

[Egghead]

Thanks for the welcome, K_Z. Long time listener, first time caller ... this discussion is too compelling for me to simply lurk anymore.

The information you have shared is fascinating, thank you. I wonder if the family themselves even know what today's surgeries entailed, considering they have had their heads firmly in the sand as far as medical advice heretofore. This will be one hell of a case study in a year (or 2, or 5 ...) when all of the facts come out, if they ever do. You know someone is going to be writing a book or three on this.

Welcome to Websleths! :fence:

BBM. Donors for organ procurement do receive anesthesia, to optimize organs to give recipients the best chance at recovery. Spinal reflexes are still present in brain dead donors, and release of endogenous catecholamines in response to pull/ stretch surgical stimulation can produce deleterious effects on BP, MAP, and organ function (like heart arrhythmias). So, donors are typically given titrated doses of anesthetic agents (gas), as well as sometimes small doses of narcotics, and paralytics.

Those who do anesthesia for procurement are really experts at balancing all of the physiological issues to optimize the organs, and work closely with the procurement surgeon and team (who come from OUTSIDE the hospital and are not affiliated with the hospital or care of the donor before the diagnosis of brain death.)

Here is a very personal look into the thoughts of an organ procurement surgeon. I think it's a fascinating glimpse into their world.

"Dead Enough?" Dr. Pauline Chen

http://www.vqronline.org/articles/2005/fall/chen-dead-enough/

Added: We have no idea if Jahi's body was given any anesthesia for the trach and g-tube. Her family didn't tweet one way or the other, just that it was done.

 

[LyndyLoo]

Maybe im being cynical, but Mon. they stated she was in bad shape, cause she was not be fed at CHO......Now someone has done the surgery and she is doing good... Me thinks they are playing games......

No one on the family's side is playing games..The only reason her body was in such bad shape is because CHO was only giving her fluid via IV....just think about it..If you only drank sugar water or other fluid lacking Nutirents..how well would any body do?...Any Body requires nutrients..Carbs..Proteins..Lipids etc..Once deprived of that..Lose of weight..SO who treated jahi that way for over 4 weeks??? Yep...Now they have a tube inserted to give her needed nutrients..We will see..Regardless of Electrical activities of brain...Her Body could continue to improve...Much against what CHO attempted to deprive her body to maintain....CHO's behaviors totally disgust me...Long time experience in ER and ICU nursing experience..SO get it..COurse..What do I know??:truce:

 

[CHERIE.T]

I agree..however for weeks they stonewalled and only fed certain info to media...WHY didnt they just allow the family to move her..instead it took court hearings after court hearing..and "Self Serving" statements by them has mislead those out there willing to believe Jahi was rotting..That is just NOT right IMO:seeya:

Because hospitals don't release brain dead ie deceased patients to their family.:banghead:

 

[Leilei]

Nick Smith ‏@nicksmithnews 2m
"She (mom) just wants to be with her daughter..#JahiMcMath where each day is a new beginning rather than perhaps her last." @cbdlaw

As a mother, this statement breaks my heart. I get it, I understand, I sympathize. Letting your child go, and I know some of you have shared stories of having to let your loved ones go, has got to be the hardest decision you've ever made.

But you made it. And I wish that Jahi's mother could find it inside of herself to do the same, because I shudder to think about what she is witnessing now, and what she will witness in the days/weeks ahead.

So conflicted, a mother's heart and wishes vs. the ugly reality. Very, very sad

 

[popsicle]

No one on the family's side is playing games..The only reason her body was in such bad shape is because CHO was only giving her fluid via IV....just think about it..If you only drank sugar water or other fluid lacking Nutirents..how well would any body do?...Any Body requires nutrients..Carbs..Proteins..Lipids etc..Once deprived of that..Lose of weight..SO who treated jahi that way for over 4 weeks??? Yep...Now they have a tube inserted to give her needed nutrients..We will see..Regardless of Electrical activities of brain...Her Body could continue to improve...Much against what CHO attempted to deprive her body to maintain....CHO's behaviors totally disgust me...Long time experience in ER and ICU nursing experience..SO get it..COurse..What do I know??:truce:

DO you have links to back this up? thanks

 

[Shecky]

Dead person is dead. But you have been arguing that it's up to the relatives to decide that? How far are you willing to take this argument? If I don't believe my grandpa is dead, should I be able to sit his body up in my living room and keep on collecting his pension checks?

My mom's ashes have yet to be scattered. Now I'm wondering, should I make her some soup?

 

[LyndyLoo]

Maybe im being cynical, but Mon. they stated she was in bad shape, cause she was not be fed at CHO......Now someone has done the surgery and she is doing good... Me thinks they are playing games......

Of course lack of causes brain damage. But this is far beyond brain damage. This is brain death. There is no blood flow, there is no electrical activity. Sadly, her brain and brainstem are the consistentcy of soup, not the brain that you normally see.

There is a very specific definition of brain death that you do not appear to be familiar with. It is not "brain damage" as you are mentioning in functional patients.

Sorry..Only leaked info indicated Electrical..NOthing to indicate lack of Blood flow or circulations..Maybe you can link for me to verify such data..TYIA:banghead:

 

[jjenny]

No one on the family's side is playing games..The only reason her body was in such bad shape is because CHO was only giving her fluid via IV....just think about it..If you only drank sugar water or other fluid lacking Nutirents..how well would any body do?...Any Body requires nutrients..Carbs..Proteins..Lipids etc..Once deprived of that..Lose of weight..SO who treated jahi that way for over 4 weeks??? Yep...Now they have a tube inserted to give her needed nutrients..We will see..Regardless of Electrical activities of brain...Her Body could continue to improve...Much against what CHO attempted to deprive her body to maintain....CHO's behaviors totally disgust me...Long time experience in ER and ICU nursing experience..SO get it..COurse..What do I know??:truce:

Even assuming the body will improve? What good does a body do without a brain? All it can do is lie in bed all day.
Why do you think a body should be maintained? For what purpose?

 

[CHERIE.T]

My mom's ashes have yet to be scattered. Now I'm wondering, should I make her some soup?

OMGOODNESS Shecky! :scared:
I'm trying to hide my snicker.

 

[Melanie]

Is a popsicle a liquid?

"Sucking" anything (ie use of straws, what one might do with a popsicle) would be discouraged after oral surgery, would that apply here as well?

I would think anything that encouraged gulping or sucking would be out of bounds but im no expert...

When my son got his molars out recently we were told not to let him suck on anything because the sucking pressure can cause bleeding. He was allowed to drink small sips from a glass the first several hours. Then he was able to have a soft milkshake (again no straw).

He ended up in the ER anyway for continued bleeding. Times have changed since I had my tonsils out (I was 18) - I didn't get a popsicle then either - it was a frozen juice cup that I ate with a spoon.

I wonder if they really gave her a popsicle, and not a frozen cup.

MOO

Mel

 

[jjenny]

Sorry..Only leaked info indicated Electrical..NOthing to indicate lack of Blood flow or circulations..Maybe you can link for me to verify such data..TYIA:banghead:

From what has been reported, she has no blood flow to the brain.

 

[popsicle]

jn75 ‏@tyuirhjk 37m
@nicksmithnews per Dr's testimony 1/7, intestines sloughing off. If so, how is feeding absorbed? http://media.nbcbayarea.com/documents/HeidiFlori.pdf …

Nick Smith ‏@nicksmithnews 4m
@tyuirhjk I've asked @cbdlaw would only say "medical professionals attending to #JahiMcMath are giving her the care she needs to improve."

 

[CHERIE.T]

Sorry..Only leaked info indicated Electrical..NOthing to indicate lack of Blood flow or circulations..Maybe you can link for me to verify such data..TYIA:banghead:

THAT info is here on the previous threads.
FYI- There is NO FREAKIN blood flow to her brain. nada (sorry)
Was it 5 or 6 doctors who examined Kahi and made professional doctorial decisions? All info is here.

 

[LyndyLoo]

My mom's ashes have yet to be scattered. Now I'm wondering, should I make her some soup?

Im only going to say..This is Not funny..and unless you have dealt with such humanity..This is rather offensive for me!!...Maybe it doesnt matter..cause many are making judgements made on spinning in blogs and certain media sources....

This particular subject happens to be rather close to my heart..and bash me if you wish..BUT Im pretty sure you and others would love to have someone with my attitude> caring for you in such dire circumstances....I happen to understand whats being said..and understand what is being suggested..

SO thats all I can say..BUT please..Jokes about death and dying just isnt funny IMO :banghead:

 

[Linda7NJ]

Linda, it's in Flores' report, I believe (already linked page 1 or 2).



It comes as a result of brain death. It's not the diabetes you usually think of when you think of someone having diabetes.

Sorry my mistake, I was talking about pre surgery.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[popsicle]

Nick Smith ‏@nicksmithnews 27m
#New: when asked for photo, video or location of 13-year-old, @cbdlaw: "safety and security" were cited as concerns.

 

[Leilei]

Sorry..Only leaked info indicated Electrical..NOthing to indicate lack of Blood flow or circulations..Maybe you can link for me to verify such data..TYIA:banghead:

All of the court documents are in the first post of this thread, and they contain the physician's findings - six of them. No blood flow at all, brain and brain stem are dead, and the coroner issued a death certificate for 12/12/13. There is also a link to Dr. Flori's report on her deteriorating condition (last link, I believe, but same post).

Not sure if these are the links you were asking for, but they are right here in the forum.

 

[Shecky]

OMGOODNESS Shecky! :scared:
I'm trying to hide my snicker.

I maintain that the reason my dear mom donated her body to medical science was because I loved the movie 'Psycho' way too much and frequently quoted it to her while she was alive.

My mom had a fantastic sense of humor at all times.

 

[LyndyLoo]

My mom's ashes have yet to be scattered. Now I'm wondering, should I make her some soup?

Im only going to say..This is Not funny..and unless you have dealt with such humanity..This is rather offensive for me...Maybe it doesnt matter..cause many are making judgements made on spinning in blogs and certain media sources....

This particular subject happens to be rather close to my heart..and bash me if you wish..BUT Im pretty sure you and others would love to have someone with my atidtued caring for you in such dire circumstance....I happen to understand whats being said..and understand what is being suggested..SO thats all I can say..BUT please..Jokes about death and dying just isnt funny IMO :banghead:

 

[CHERIE.T]

I agree..however for weeks they stonewalled and only fed certain info to media...WHY didnt they just allow the family to move her..instead it took court hearings after court hearing..and "Self Serving" statements by them has mislead those out there willing to believe Jahi was rotting..That is just NOT right IMO:seeya:

Link or clear quote about CHO stonewalling and withholding information from the media.

Do you have insider info? Because IMO it's not a good idea to call CHO a self-serving statement offering hospital.