Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #6

[vlpate]

The Catholic Church speaks to the role McBath's religious beliefs play in this tragedy....basically, Jahi is deceased.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

I agree..however for weeks they stonewalled and only fed certain info to media...WHY didnt they just allow the family to move her..instead it took court hearings after court hearing..and "Self Serving" statements by them has mislead those out there willing to believe Jahi was rotting..That is just NOT right IMO:seeya:

It may "sound" easy but it is very complicated.

Jahi was declared brain dead which = cardiac death by all medical and legal terms. When a person is deceased but still being given ventilator support, the family is given a short time period to gather, usually only a couple days. The family ask CHO for more time and CHO gave them more time. When that time period was up the attorney went to court to stop the removal of the ventilator. Please note: When a person is deceased and on a ventilator, the hospital makes the decision to remove the ventilator not the family. This is across the board, not just at CHO.

So now there is a body that has legally been declared dead and the coroner has been notified. The hospital cannot just release a deceased body to the family. We are talking about all kinds of legal and ethical issues that would apply here. During the court proceedings, the hospital communicated with the family on what was necessary for them to be able to remove Jahi's body.

The family attorney is the one that stalled on the transport of the body to buy time, because they did not have their ducks in order, so to speak. The family attorney, also tried to have the courts force CHO to perform operations on a deceased body. Wasn't going to happen, no way, no how. Again, all kinds of legal and ethical issues apply.

Finally, through the courts, because that's where it had to go, due to all kinds of legal issues, the proper paperwork was filed and Jahi was released to the coroner, who released her body to her mother. It had to be done through court order. They finally ran out of time. The chance of a judge extending the ventilator support again was slim. They moved Jahi to some undisclosed location. But, it was the family attorney that stalled the transport, because he was buying time.

 

[Shecky]

Im only going to say..This is Not funny..and unless you have dealt with such humanity..This is rather offensive for me!!...Maybe it doesnt matter..cause many are making judgements made on spinning in blogs and certain media sources....

This particular subject happens to be rather close to my heart..and bash me if you wish..BUT Im pretty sure you and others would love to have someone with my attitude> caring for you in such dire circumstances....I happen to understand whats being said..and understand what is being suggested..

SO thats all I can say..BUT please..Jokes about death and dying just isnt funny IMO :banghead:

I was replying to a joke another member had made, I'm sorry you find that offensive.

And yes, I have been at the bedside of dying loved ones. I handle my sadness with a bit of humor.

 

[CHERIE.T]

I maintain that the reason my dear mom donated her body to medical science was because I loved the movie 'Psycho' way too much and frequently quoted it to her while she was alive.

My mom had a fantastic sense of humor at all times.

I love ya honey! I couldn't hold the laugh in either. :floorlaugh:

 

[meme4]

Nick Smith ‏@nicksmithnews 27m
#New: when asked for photo, video or location of 13-year-old, @cbdlaw: "safety and security" were cited as concerns.

Of course no photos, videos, just like when she was in the hospital smiling, moving, glowing and thick.....If she was improving you'd think they would want the world to see.......

 

[vlpate]

Sorry..Only leaked info indicated Electrical..NOthing to indicate lack of Blood flow or circulations..Maybe you can link for me to verify such data..TYIA:banghead:

Jahi's brain would look like the third one here http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/130409141844-brain-scan-afterlife-crop-story-top.jpg

Source CNN

 

[Tulessa]

I maintain that the reason my dear mom donated her body to medical science was because I loved the movie 'Psycho' way too much and frequently quoted it to her while she was alive.

My mom had a fantastic sense of humor at all times.

What a wonderful thing to do! Bless you! I see you have her sense of humor. It's needed in this thread, so thank you.

 

[wannabeasupersleuth]

No one on the family's side is playing games..The only reason her body was in such bad shape is because CHO was only giving her fluid via IV....just think about it..If you only drank sugar water or other fluid lacking Nutirents..how well would any body do?...Any Body requires nutrients..Carbs..Proteins..Lipids etc..Once deprived of that..Lose of weight..SO who treated jahi that way for over 4 weeks??? Yep...Now they have a tube inserted to give her needed nutrients..We will see..Regardless of Electrical activities of brain...Her Body could continue to improve...Much against what CHO attempted to deprive her body to maintain....CHO's behaviors totally disgust me...Long time experience in ER and ICU nursing experience..SO get it..COurse..What do I know??:truce:

Do you really think she's going to just wake up one day and be a normal kid?
CHO is required to follow the definitions and laws when it comes to the deceased. If they weren't, we could walk out of any old hospital with any deceased relative over our shoulder! You should refrain from bashing CHO until we know their side...which they are bound by HIPPA...so we will most likely never know.. Have you ever, in your years of nursing, treated a BRAIN DEAD (not BRAIN INJURED) patient and seen a positive outcome???
And, the family took a private matter and turned it into a media circus...so YES, THEY KNOW THE EXACT GAME THEYRE PLAYING!!

 

[wendiesan]

I wanted to personally thank you for taking the time to so thoroughly explain it I appreciate it.

Quick question...are only cases where a death occurred brought forward? How are cases determined to be reviewed?

Again thank you


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No. IIRC, there are other cases where a peer review may be called for.
If a practitioner is aware of an incident being disruptive to hospital procedures, or unprofessional behaviour, etc. that might also be cause.
It's a very serious process.

I'll give you this reference as a starting off point for your research, but I hope medical pros will weigh in and give you the benefit of their experience and correct my errors.

http://www.peerreview.org/hospital/what_every_physician_should_know.htm

 

[sherbetjello]

Nick Smith ‏@nicksmithnews 4m
@tyuirhjk I've asked @cbdlaw would only say "medical professionals attending to #JahiMcMath are giving her the care she needs to improve."

These things need to happen, IMO:

• A doctor taking care of Jahi needs to provide the miracle this family is so seeking. (UNREALISTIC, but for the dreamer in me.)
• The lawyer needs to be held responsible for these statements of "giving her the care she needs to improve."
• The doctors that actually performed this surgery need to be looked into.

This is outrageous. Craziness. Out there, lost, not coming back, way out there.
JMO!!

<modsnip>

 

[LyndyLoo]

From what has been reported, she has no blood flow to the brain.

THAT info is here on the previous threads.
FYI- There is NO FREAKIN blood flow to her brain. nada (sorry)
Was it 5 or 6 doctors who examined Kahi and made professional doctorial decisions? All info is here.

Sorry my mistake, I was talking about pre surgery.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Link or clear quote about CHO stonewalling and withholding information from the media.

Do you have insider info? Because IMO it's not a good idea to call CHO a self-serving statement offering hospital.

OK...I just followed the suggestion and looked up assessment by CHO for Brain Death..and NOWHERE did I see any circulations of Blood flows to the brain..and It's just as I have read other places..Mis-informations being spread as facts..There is NO way any such testings would be done..AND no her actual brain matter is NOT decomposing..and I just know that..take that for whats its worth..Far too much judgements have been made by certain spinnings..and I know it's not based on FACTs....IF that was so..Jahi would have been heart/cardiovasular DEAD within 48 hours..We are now weeks later...

Here's what's linked about Brain death..Please point out brain circulations to me...Blood Flow Studies werent done...unless someone can point me to that being done after this date???

http://www.scribd.com/doc/195183111/Children-s-Hospital-Okland-Physician-s-Declaration-Dec-20-2013

NOTE#4 on this evaluations..TYIA:facepalm:

 

[Linda7NJ]

I agree..however for weeks they stonewalled and only fed certain info to media...WHY didnt they just allow the family to move her..instead it took court hearings after court hearing..and "Self Serving" statements by them has mislead those out there willing to believe Jahi was rotting..That is just NOT right IMO:seeya:

I have a problem with the way the hospital handled this. To tell a mother, that the child they said would lead a better life after this surgery, that bled to death in their ICU, on their watch, that she's now dead dead dead could ....should have been handled better and privately.

The "spokesman" they hired was also a huge mistake.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Leilei]

These things need to happen, IMO:

• A doctor taking care of Jahi needs to provide the miracle this family is so seeking. (UNREALISTIC, but for the dreamer in me.)
• The lawyer needs to be held responsible for these statements of "giving her the care she needs to improve."
• The doctors that actually performed this surgery need to be looked into.

This is outrageous. Craziness. Out there, lost, not coming back, way out there.
JMO!!

I am glad that I have read tweets from other family members (the youngsters), and they are placed in different locals at this point. So, I take a little comfort in knowing that, just a little.

Agreed, all the way around, and there is an investigation into what happened going on as we type. I'm not sure who launched it or if it's something that happens whenever there is an event like this at the hospital, but someone else may have better details on that. Heck, CHO itself could have asked for it, for all we know. But it's good that there is one being done.

 

[vlpate]

Seems the bleeding is common... really common.
About.com Post Operative Bleeding After Tonsillectomy

Any doctor will tell you that while 10ml of blood shouldn't cause any physiological stress it looks like a large amount of blood when you're wearing it on your shirt.

 

[seattlechiquita]

I have to say, here I am being a goofball and then someone like wendiesan comes in with a tour de force post and feel like I need to do the Ashlee Simpson shuffle. But that's the beauty of WS--so many thoughtful, insightful, passionate, educated people and the occasional craziness to season it all!

P.S. I am much prettier than seattlechiquita, just ask my mom!

Beeeeeeech puhleaze!!!! PFFFT. :hug:

 

[I Object!]

Lack of nutrients was not the sole reason she was in bad shape. She wasn't given nutrients because she was declared brain dead. As per California law, they had a second physician assess her. Then three more. A sixth physician, head of pediatric neurology at Stanford, concluded the same thing. The last being ordered by a Judge, who agreed with all 6 physicians, and declared her brain dead.

CHO followed California law with regard to this patient. In fact, they seemingly bent over backwards to accommodate a family who understandably was grieving but refused to believe physicians.

Lack of nutrients for short periods of time are the cornerstone of gastric bypass surgeries and their success. The temporary lack actually improves the health of obese patients who often have horrible co-morbidities. These patients go months without any real nutrition because A) they don't have the stomach capacity and B) their guts have been snipped and shortened so that any nutrition that DOES make it in cannot be fully absorbed. The only difference is, those patients have healthy, living functioning brains.

No one on the family's side is playing games..The only reason her body was in such bad shape is because CHO was only giving her fluid via IV....just think about it..If you only drank sugar water or other fluid lacking Nutirents..how well would any body do?...Any Body requires nutrients..Carbs..Proteins..Lipids etc..Once deprived of that..Lose of weight..SO who treated jahi that way for over 4 weeks??? Yep...Now they have a tube inserted to give her needed nutrients..We will see..Regardless of Electrical activities of brain...Her Body could continue to improve...Much against what CHO attempted to deprive her body to maintain....CHO's behaviors totally disgust me...Long time experience in ER and ICU nursing experience..SO get it..COurse..What do I know??:truce:

 

[SwampMama]

I was replying to a joke another member had made, I'm sorry you find that offensive.

And yes, I have been at the bedside of dying loved ones. I handle my sadness with a bit of humor.

I confess, I giggled over the comment and I saw nothing offensive in it. We are dealing with a tough subject here and handling it with respect, consideration and compassion. But we occasionally need a laugh to keep us from getting to down about such a heavy topic. It is all a part of coping with life, and death is a part of life. Even at my beloved fiance's funeral. We found reason to laugh and I know he would have wanted it that way.

 

[vlpate]

OK...I just followed the suggestion and looked up assessment by CHO for Brain Death..and NOWHERE did I see any circulations of Blood flows to the brain..and It's just as I have read other places..Mis-informations being spread as facts..There is NO way any such testings would be done..AND no her actual brain matter is NOT decomposing..and I just know that..take that for whats its worth..Far too much judgements have been made by certain spinnings..and I know it's not based on FACTs....IF that was so..Jahi would have been heart/cardiovasular DEAD within 48 hours..We are now weeks later...

Here's what's linked about Brain death..Please point out brain circulations to me...Blood Flow Studies werent done...unless someone can point me to that being done after this date???

http://www.scribd.com/doc/195183111/Children-s-Hospital-Okland-Physician-s-Declaration-Dec-20-2013

NOTE#4 on this evaluations..TYIA:facepalm:

Her brain is dead...the brain stem is dead. Nothing is going in or coming out. Take the breakers out of your house, throw them away and try to turn on a light. That's her brain...gone and not coming back...only new breakers (brain) or a generator (life support), will make the light come on again.

 

[SeekingJana]

This totally happens. I had my ex husband sneak me in contraband the evening I gave birth to our youngest. I'd had a C-Section and was on clear liquids still.

You would not BELIEVE what my fellow nurses and I have removed from guests entering the various ICU units in a Level One trauma center... And don't even get me started on the pizza delivery dudes. Some people who hadn't spoken for days could manage to dial Domino's.

 

[Soliloquy]

OK...I just followed the suggestion and looked up assessment by CHO for Brain Death..and NOWHERE did I see any circulations of

Blood flows to the brain..and It's just as I have read other places..Mis-informations being spread as facts..There is NO way any such testings would be done..AND no her actual brain matter is NOT decomposing..and I just know that..take that for whats its worth..Far too much judgements have been made by certain spinnings..and I know it's not based on FACTs....IF that was so..Jahi would have been heart/cardiovasular DEAD within 48 hours..We are now weeks later...

Here's what's linked about Brain death..Please point out brain circulations to me...Blood Flow Studies werent done...unless someone can point me to that being done after this date???

http://www.scribd.com/doc/195183111/Children-s-Hospital-Okland-Physician-s-Declaration-Dec-20-2013

NOTE#4 on this evaluations..TYIA:facepalm:

It seems these could be triggers for you--so read at your own risk--but the documents you need to read are the following:

http://media.nbcbayarea.com/documents/Fisher+-+Redacted+Rpt_1.pdf
(Dr. Paul G. Fisher's handwritten report for his court-mandated examination on 12/23/13)

and

http://media.nbcbayarea.com/documents/HeidiFlori.pdf
(Dr. Heidi Flori's report as of current condition of the body as of 1/3/14, I believe).

These two reports alone leave no doubt as to the condition of Jahi McMath.