Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #6

[ArianeEmory]

I suppose it will have to wait to be completely completed? I'm just guessing.


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I actually don't know either, my question was sincere, FWIW. (Both of them.)

 

[Herat]

I suppose it will have to wait to be completely completed? I'm just guessing.


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The autopsy will be an important part of the investigation.

 

[Zuri]

Wow. Whoa. Is the pallor noted from her fingernail to her finger joint from impaired circulation or is it the lighting?

 

[vlpate]

They aren't "claiming" HIPAA, they are respecting Jahi's HIPAA rights. If they were to blast her medical condition and care, do you not think they would be sued by the family?

I know I also read the family forbade the hospital to talk about the case. Maybe in a motion or a quote from a media source. If anyone recalls, please...otherwise...JMO. until I can find it.

 

[Jacie Estes]

If they were the childs meds, she was taking a boatload and that doesnt imply to me a healthy child. I dont see any reason her mother would take anyone else's meds to court.......

BBM

If that was the case, how was she medically cleared to have the surgery?

 

[Herat]

The uncle was on vacation at the time of the surgery and most likely did not attend any appointments related to the surgery. The deceased had uncontrolled urination. Is it really possible that a doctor would tell a patient that a tonsillectomy would cure uncontrolled urination? Does that sound like something a doctor would say? My experience is that doctors do not predict the outcome of surgery.

This article discusses pediatric sleep apnea and betwetting. I didn't research outcomes of improvement of bedwetting with T&A, UPPP, and turbinate resection, but I'm assuming they are out there somewhere.

http://www.entnet.org/HealthInformation/Could-Child-Have-Sleep-Apnea.cfm

 

[Wolfie]

I have a medical question. What about people in medically induced comas? Or people that were on a ventilator and later a trac for assisted breathing for a month? The ones that didn't have a feeding tube inserted because it was only a month or so...and they were expected to recover. What happens to their digestive system and how is it different?

I am not a medical professional, and somebody may have answered this before me. I have two friends who have been on TPN for different reasons. Because their body is still alive, their digestive system somewhat shuts down, but doesn't start to fall apart as Jahi's has. They had to slowly wean off of the TPN, and eat special diets, and in both of the cases, there were setbacks where they had to go back on to TPN for a while.

 

[otto]

Will it be able to be completed with no autopsy?

There was a link a couple of days ago and I believe that when the family is ready to return the body to the coroner, all tubes there were in place have to still be in place, and an autopsy will be completed.
Not sure if that answers your question ...

 

[jjenny]

She had sleep apnea. Surgery was going to help with sleep apnea. Sleep apnea can cause uncontrolled urination. Therefore surgery was going to help uncontrolled urination.

 

[LyndyLoo]

Dr. Fisher wasn't blocked, he's the doctor from Stanford, Chief of Pediatric Neurology.

If you're talking about Dr. Byrne, he isn't a neurologist and wasn't qualified.

I still havent been able to view that report Leilei....???

I have a medical question for KZ, Herat and anyone who might know:

When you have a pediatric patient who suddenly starts hemorrhaging from an ENT surgery like this, how do you stop the bleeding? If a patient can bleed out in 3 minutes (180 seconds), what do you do first, providing the bleed is arterial in the back of the throat? I understand the resuscitate efforts like fresh frozen plasma, o neg blood, I've fluids for volume. How do you stop the bleeding in 180 seconds? TIA

Sudden Bleeds like this..Tonsils or Esophageal Varices Fits what you area describing..massive bleeding from throat (esophagus)....Here's how thats dealt with...have actually experienced that numerous times in ICU and ER's over the years...This link describes intubations to put pressure of lining of throat..

BUt First an foremost..Call for HELP..Dont hand a basin or bucket to family...Be that as it may..Many dont believe that..BUT Fact is..She 9 12 year old) arrested..why? Sudden blood loss..Wasnt she medically cleared prior to surgery..And please Family info doesnt even scratch the surface for Medical clearances....

Below is one scenerio what you asked about Zuri :seeya:



http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000268.htm


Treatments for acute bleeding:

•A small lighted tube called an endoscope may be used. The health care provider may inject the varices directly with a clotting medicine, or place a rubber band around the bleeding veins.
•A medication that tightens blood vessels (vasoconstriction) may be used. Examples include octreotide or vasopressin.
•Rarely a tube may be inserted through the nose into the stomach and inflated with air. This produces pressure against the bleeding veins (balloon tamponade).

 

[Herat]

Wow. Whoa. Is the pallor noted from her fingernail to her finger joint from impaired circulation or is it the lighting?

Hard to say but it's noticeable. I although thought the skin of her fingertips looks shrunken, as if there is not enough peripheral vascular perfusion.

 

[jjenny]

BBM

If that was the case, how was she medically cleared to have the surgery?

Maybe because surgery isn't just done on perfectly healthy people to begin with.
Perfectly healthy people don't usually even need surgery.

 

[Quester]

[JM] has tubes inserted, others use her to raise funds

... [Attorney] Dolan also said doctors say her condition has stabilized
and are optimistic her health is improving.

The Oakland teen was declared brain dead last month. ...

http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/local/mcmath-has-tubes-inserted-others-use-her-raise-fun/ncgp7/

 

[otto]

Wow. Whoa. Is the pallor noted from her fingernail to her finger joint from impaired circulation or is it the lighting?

That's not lighting. I think that is the loss of skin elasticity, amongst other things.

 

[katydid23]

Is a popsicle a liquid?

"Sucking" anything (ie use of straws, what one might do with a popsicle) would be discouraged after oral surgery, would that apply here as well?

I would think anything that encouraged gulping or sucking would be out of bounds but im no expert...

My daughter recently had 4 wisdom teeth removed in outpatient surgery. One was impacted and there was a lot of bleeding. I took care of her the first night, and the nurse said "ABSOLUTELY, NO SUCKING" on anything. She could have popsicles but must lick them or cut into small bites. But NO SUCKING nor using a straw to drink for a few days. Doing so could cause further bleeding.

 

[Linda7NJ]

The uncle was on vacation at the time of the surgery and most likely did not attend any appointments related to the surgery. The deceased had uncontrolled urination. Is it really possible that a doctor would tell a patient that a tonsillectomy would cure uncontrolled urination? Does that sound like something a doctor would say? My experience is that doctors do not predict the outcome of surgery.

I would bet it was predicted it would cure her sleep apnea and as a result improve the urination problem.


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[jjenny]

[JM] has tubes inserted, others use her to raise funds

... [Attorney] Dolan also said doctors say her condition has stabilized
and are optimistic her health is improving.

The Oakland teen was declared brain dead last month. ...

http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/local/mcmath-has-tubes-inserted-others-use-her-raise-fun/ncgp7/

Nice to know that other than being brain dead, she is now in good health.

 

[otto]

BBM

If that was the case, how was she medically cleared to have the surgery?

It was probably necessary. I think that "elective" surgery often gives the wrong idea, suggesting that it is optional or not really necessary. When my son had neurosurgery, I was surprised that "elective" was written on the chart. It's true, I had to make the decision whether he had the surgery or not. Without the surgery, he would be severely brain damaged. With the surgery, he's a great guy. It was impossible to say prior to the surgery whether it was absolutely necessary, but immediately after the surgery the neurosurgeon found me and told that I made the right call ... that it was necessary.

 

[threecrazykids]

The monitors warn of impending crisis minutes before it occurs if only someone is listening, or watching so there was additional time to act. I'm a Nurse too. A Tonsillectomy isn't emergency surgery to a previously unknown patient. This was an elective scheduled procedure on what should have been determined in advance as being a healthy patient with a normal airway, cardio-vascular system and blood clotting ability.

The Uncle reports the family was advised the procedure would 'cure', among many other things, an overactive bladder. Medical negligence IMHO is not at all a premature assumption. :facepalm:

I am willing to bet my next 10 years of paychecks that there is no reportt, pre-op signature, or ANY such form this family will be able to produce where they signed a document stating that these procedures would "CURE" overactive bladder - let alone CURE anything else for that matter.

The uncle can "report" anything he wants!:banghead: That doesn't make it TRUE.

Am I reading this right? You don't believe that anyone in this family is capable of lying or would have motive to do so?

 

[K_Z]

The monitors warn of impending crisis minutes before it occurs if only someone is listening, or watching so there was additional time to act. I'm a Nurse too. A Tonsillectomy isn't emergency surgery to a previously unknown patient. This was an elective scheduled procedure on what should have been determined in advance as being a healthy patient with a normal airway, cardio-vascular system and blood clotting ability.

The Uncle reports the family was advised the procedure would 'cure', among many other things, an overactive bladder. Medical negligence IMHO is not at all a premature assumption. :facepalm:

BBM. This unfortunate teen did not have a "normal airway". If she did have a normal airway, she would not have been scheduled to have extensive remodeling of that airway for what the family describes as "severe" obstructive sleep apnea.

We do not know if she had a "normal" cardiovascular system and blood clotting ability. We OPTIMIZE patients for elective surgery, we cannot "cure" them of every underlying condition that puts them at risk. We don't know how she responded during surgery. She was high risk, period. You don't reserve a valuable PICU bed for "every" tonsillectomy.

There is a pervasive idea in the general public, and perhaps even among some health care providers that just because something is scheduled as "elective", the patient is "healthy" and the surgery can be argued as "not needed". "Elective" simply means it is not an emergency.