Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #6

[Herat]

Media just uses brain dead, in a coma, in PVS like it's the same thing.
Jill Finley from the description of it was in a coma, not brain dead. I don't think any doctor would say that a brain dead patient has 1-2% chance of living a normal life. Brain dead patient is dead. Brain dead patient's brain turns into soup like substance. You can't live with a soup in your head.

The diagnosis of brain death is also a diagnosis made with the most conservative and documented criteria. It is not a subject that any physician wants to approach without huge reserve and empathy for the impact this will have on the family. It is a process that weighs heavily on any physician, as it gives no hope at all for recovery.

 

[seattlechiquita]

Jane Velez-Mitchell transcript January 7, 2014

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1401/07/ijvm.01.html

I started reading and decided to stop. This is exhausting.

 

[Donjeta]

Here's another of those can'tfixstupid articles:



Jahi McMath case highlight’s Obamacare’s increasing control over life and death
http://dailycaller.com/2014/01/08/j...res-increasing-control-over-life-and-death/2/'

Doctors saw Jahi as dead. Hospital administrators saw Jahi as a drag on profitability. The hospital’s spin doctors saw Jahi and sought to create their own perceived reality.

One lawyer saw Jahi and fought for her survival. One lawyer saw Jahi as a problem to solve and fought for the hospital to win legal permission to pull the plug on a corpse.
...

Obamacare makes these heart-breaking cases worse in three ways.

First, Obamacare denies our freedom to choose health insurance that fits our lifestyle and moral guideposts. The statute substitutes a patient’s wishes with that of uncaring, unconnected, and unelected administrators in Washington.

Second, Obamacare vastly increases health care costs, which already account for one sixth of our economy. Advocates of Obamacare promised that, in return for upending our health care system and economy, the law would reduce the cost of health care and specifically cited that uninsured patients use the emergency room as a general practice. A recent study demonstrates that Obamacare’s Medicaid expansion will lead to increased ER usage, rather than reduce it.
...
In 1997, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld the New York and Washington state laws criminalizing assisted suicide. New York’s attorney general remarked at the time that “the ruling will protect Americans from a regime that says it’s cheaper to kill patients than to treat them.”

Obamacare takes us closer to that regime.

1) Obamacare is by no means the only insurance that does not pay for the continued care of dead people
2) The author is worried about the growing costs of health care, yet wants hospitals to care for dead people and suggests that CHO was concerned about the costs of maintaining Jahi on a ventilator and were evil for that.

If you want cheaper health care, it makes great sense to pay for treatments that do not benefit the deceased person receiving it. :waitasec:

 

[otto]

Jane Velez-Mitchell transcript January 7, 2014

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1401/07/ijvm.01.html

"ADAMSON: Can`t do anything. I`m 33 and all of a sudden I found myself 18 years ago lying in a hospital bed and listening to people talking about ending my life unable to communicate with the outside world. I had suffered a massive brain stem stroke, and my husband was told I had less than one in a million chance to survive. He said, "She will be that one."

33 - 18 = 15

So, when this woman was 15 years old, her husband was told that she wouldn't survive? There's something fishy about that.

 

[Herat]

Exactly!!! Not too mention she was hypothermic which increases chances of a better outcome

And just to be very very very clear:

This is a medically-induced hypothermia intentionally instituted to decrease brain metabolism and minimize damage

This is NOT the hypothermia that Jahi's body is experiencing because of the death of the hypothalamic regulation of body temperature that has occurred as a consequence of her total brain and brainstem death.

 

[Donjeta]

"ADAMSON: Can`t do anything. I`m 33 and all of a sudden I found myself 18 years ago lying in a hospital bed and listening to people talking about ending my life unable to communicate with the outside world. I had suffered a massive brain stem stroke, and my husband was told I had less than one in a million chance to survive. He said, "She will be that one."

33 - 18 = 15

So, when this woman was 15 years old, her husband was told that she wouldn't survive? There's something fishy about that.

I think she means that she was 33 years old 18 years ago.

A brainstem stroke left Adamson with “locked-in-syndrome” at age 33 in 1995, and because of her age, the doctors thought she had a brain tumor.

http://www.kateadamson.com/articles/new-mobility

 

[otto]

I started reading and decided to stop. This is exhausting.

It's exhausting and fishy. Why was this woman married at the age of 15?

 

[otto]

I think she means that she was 33 years old 18 years ago.

http://www.kateadamson.com/articles/new-mobility

I see. Thanks. She speaks like that and she wrote a book? I don't think I would want to read it.

 

[popsicle]

The New York Law School Law Review has just published a new issue: "Freedom of Choice at the End of Life: Patients’ Rights in a Shifting Legal and Political Landscape" Volume 58, Issue 2 (2013-2014).

The issue is based on the Freedom of Choice at the End of Life: Patients’ Rights in a Shifting Legal and Policy Landscape symposium held at New York Law School in November, 2012. The symposium was co-sponsored by the Justice Action Center at New York Law School. Videorecordings of the symposium panels are available here. Photos from the event are available here. Click here to view video recordings of the event in iTunes.

Introduction by Peter J. Strauss
Right-to-Die Cases: A New York Historical Perspective by Sol Wachtler
From Schiavo to Death Panels: How Media Coverage of End-of-Life Issues Affects Public Opinion by Sherrie Dulworth
Health Justice Denied or Delayed at the End of Life: A Crisis Needing Remedial Action by David C. Leven
Advance Directives, Dementia, and Eligibility for Physician-Assisted Death by Paul T. Menzel
The Limits of Autonomy: Force-Feedings in Catholic Hospitals and in Prisons by Ann Neumann
Context Matters: Disability, the End of Life, and Why the Conversation Is Still So Difficult by Alicia Ouellette
Dispute Resolution Mechanisms for Intractable Medical Futility Disputes by Thaddeus Mason Pope
A New Life for Wrongful Living by Nadia N. Sawicki
Give Me Liberty at My Death: Expanding End-of-Life Choice in Massachusetts by Kathryn L. Tucker

http://medicalfutility.blogspot.com/

 

[liljim]

Jahi isn't decomposing. She is deteriortating. Which happens to brain dead bodies on life support.
The same is happeing with the body of a brain dead pregnant woman. It's deteriorating.
It's hard to keep a brain dead body "alive." The record for a brain dead pregnant woman is 107 days.
Which would be enough for the fetus to reach the viable stage. Assuming the body of a pregnant woman lasts that long, there is a chance fetus might make it.

what definition of decomposing are you using that does not apply here?

thank you.

 

[meme4]

I keep wondering why these journalist keep bringing in these people who were either in a coma, brain damaged, PVS, its not the same thing, what do these people have to do with anything..I think they are helping to muddy the waters by doing that....And can someone who is on staff at CNN, HLN, Fox, please do some research and stop insinuating everything the family says is truth...She did not have a routine tonsilectomy, I am really tired of hearing this......what happened to truth in journalism......its not opinion, its not heresay, get the facts.....

 

[otto]

This whole situation is so far from what should be done that it is almost comical. I apologize if that offends anyone, but I'm sure that I'm not alone in terms of arriving at a point where the absurdity of the situation seems to overshadow all other emotions.

Essentially we have a dead child. We have a mother that is in denial and who is not receiving appropriate counselling. We have an uncle that sought legal options and who has discussed financial gains. We have a lawyer that should know better, but who claims that dead is not actually dead. We have a talking head (Nancy Grace) who states " little Jani pronounced brain dead", "Haven`t they ever heard of miracles?", and "I guess they never heard about Lazarus, did they, coming back from the dead?" The end result seems to be that the brain in the dead body is liquefying while the family sits and watches. It's an unbelievable situation that is simply not normal and it borders on the absurd. If the family didn't need counselling before this untimely death, they will certainly need extensive counselling after observing the slow deterioration of her body.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1401/06/ng.01.html

 

[otto]

I keep wondering why these journalist keep bringing in these people who were either in a coma, brain damaged, PVS, its not the same thing, what do these people have to do with anything..I think they are helping to muddy the waters by doing that....And can someone who is on staff at CNN, HLN, Fox, please do some research and stop insinuating everything the family says is truth...She did not by have a routine tonsilectomy, I am really tired of hearing this......what happened to truth in journalism......its not opinion, its not heresay, get the facts.....

If the media were to deal with the facts: that the child is dead, there would be nothing to discuss. In fact, if media went with the facts, people would be horrified at what is happening. As it is, everyone can pretend that this child is merely sleeping and that what is happening is normal.

By suggesting that dead people are the same as people in a coma, it is possible to create controversy and get everyone all worked up and increase readership/ratings.

 

[nursebeeme]

And just to be very very very clear:

This is a medically-induced hypothermia intentionally instituted to decrease brain metabolism and minimize damage

This is NOT the hypothermia that Jahi's body is experiencing because of the death of the hypothalamic regulation of body temperature that has occurred as a consequence of her total brain and brainstem death.

Yes i am a cvicu nurse. My point was the woman in the coma was hypothermic which can increase chances of a better outcome. I also teach pals and acls

 

[Linda7NJ]

Does California have a peer review required for malpractice cases? We have that in Louisiana and if the doctor's peers don't agree that malpractice is a factor, the law suit cannot be filed.

Isn't that alittle like the fox guarding the hen house?




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[Herat]

Yes i am a cvicu nurse. My point was the woman in the coma was hypothermic which can increase chances of a better outcome. I also teach pals and acls

Thanks. You certainly have the experience to know whereof you speak!

I just wanted to point out the specific use of the term "hypothermia" in the Jill Finley case.

Too many people, including the MSM, are taking specific terms and completely misusing them in application to various kinds of CNS debilitation and brain death.

 

[nursebeeme]

Isn't that alittle like the fox guarding the hen house?




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Peer reveiw???????? No!!!!!! Imhoo

 

[Herat]

Isn't that alittle like the fox guarding the hen house?

No it isn't.

If there is anyone who could be impartial, it would be other unaffiliated physicians who have the same kinds of practices or expertise.

It certainly wouldn't be personal injury attorneys.

 

[Donjeta]

Isn't that alittle like the fox guarding the hen house?




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One could perhaps think about it in terms of other foxes who know about how henhouses should be guarded being the best able to figure out if another fox messed things up at his henhouse. It should be easier to recognize the bad practices if you're knowledgeable about good practices. As we have seen in this case over and over again, it can be hard to understand medical information.

 

[Isabelle]

Isn't that alittle like the fox guarding the hen house?




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Yes, you could say that. And, in Louisiana, EMS/EMT,s are included.