Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #6

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Harmony 2

Harmony 2

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thread #1 thread #2 thread #3 thread #4 thread #5


Court documents:

12/20/13
http://www.scribd.com/doc/195182229...-20-2013-Opposition-to-Temp-Restraining-Order

http://www.scribd.com/doc/195183111/Children-s-Hospital-Okland-Physician-s-Declaration-Dec-20-2013

12/23/13- Dr. Fisher's report
http://media.nbcbayarea.com/documents/Fisher+-+Redacted+Rpt_1.pdf

12/24/13
http://www.scribd.com/doc/195183615/Children-s-Hospital-Okland-Dec-24-2013-Opposition-to-Petition-to-Appoint-Dr-Paul-Byrne-as-an-
Independent-Expert

12/27/13
http://www.scribd.com/doc/195184121...13-Attorney-response-to-Esq-Dolan-family-atty

12/30/13
http://www.scribd.com/doc/195184920...rt-of-Appeal-Filing-by-Family-online-Document

http://www.scribd.com/doc/195185964...ec-30-2013-McMath-Civil-Rights-Lawsuit-filing

1/2/14
http://www.thaddeuspope.com/images/Mcmath_ND_Cal_Settlement_01-02-14.pdf

1/6/14- Dr. Flori's report
http://media.nbcbayarea.com/documents/HeidiFlori.pdf


list of verified professionals at websleuths:
Professional Posters & Verified Locals/Insiders - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


Mod notes:
*If a statement of fact or a claim is being posted then be prepared to substantiate with a link. Post in a respectful and civil manner. Personalized posts attacking others will be removed...Moreover, please steer clear of bringing race into the discussion...

*Please stop making negative insinuations about the family... Websleuths advocates for victims and Jahi's family are victims in this tragic situation. Please try to be a little more understanding about their devastating loss and struggles in dealing with it... thanks
 
Kimster said:
The namecalling ends. Now. It's clear in our rules that namecalling of players in cases, or each other, is a rules violation. If I see any more namecalling in this thread, the poster gets to be on the outside looking in.

Zero tolerance from this point forward. :saber:
Click to expand...

Everyone is safe.

However............

I'm adding two issues that need to be addressed.

No more personalizing. Time outs for this from now on. If someone is bugging you for some reason, use the alert feature and/or put the member on your ignore list. The modsnips are many and our mods are not editors. They are moderators.

Use links to back up your facts! If you are not a verified professional in the field of the topic you are discussing, you must link!

None of this is new. If you don't understand what is going on, please contact me privately so I can help you.

 
I feel that those who had a deep emotional connection to Jahi absolutely deserve compassion and the benefit of the doubt that they truly believe she has a chance. I watched my mom and my mom in law die and I know how shattering it is, I can understand people breaking from reality in the midst of grief.

But this lawyer isn't a part of that, and he's not arguing for their religious freedoms to do as they wish, he's feeding the delusions that this is a sick little girl that needs to be saved. The same goes for whatever professionals are involved at this unnamed facility.
 
I am all about the Court

Brain dead = dead
 
Dragging this over from the last thread... Sorry if ya read it already:/


Its not just a grief reaction IMO. There are a whole host of other issues IMO.

These are the very same doctors she handed her living breathing daughter to. They said she would be better after this surgery.

She no longer trusts them.
<modsnip>

I'm not saying that's the case here...

I understand her reluctance to trust.

I think just about everyone on this thread, myself included would let our brain dead loved one go.
However, I would be a fool not to have an independent neurologist of my choosing to confirm the hospitals findings.

Anyone that thinks doctors are perfect, never make mistakes, can't be criminals, don't lie, incapable of committing crimes for profit, not looking after their own best interests is very naive. All IMO.

Again...I'm not saying that's the case here. But it does happen. All too often.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I do have sympathy for Jahi's mother & her entire family, I think all the statements & posturing are trying to delay or avert the inevitable, I don't think that the thought of future settlements is overriding how they feel about Jahi.

I wish them peace & the ability to step back, & the sincere hope that they can celebrate her life & come to terms with her death- it won't be easy, but IMO it would be best.
 
I propose that anyone here who can't get along and starts fussing with each other be sent to the corner together and be made to hold hands. That's what my mom used to do to me and my sister, and she had clammy hands and would lick them and then hold mine just to gross me out.

But seriously, I appreciate everyone's point of view here even when it is directly opposed to mine because they can express it intelligently and courteously and it makes me think about things in ways that I might not have considered before.

I figure that all of us have the most important factor in common and that is that we do care - a lot - about people, tragic circumstances, victims and justice. So while we may be on opposite ends of some subjects, in the greater scheme of things, we all stand together.

This has been one of the most intelligent, thoughtful and educational conversations on this topic anywhere on the web. I know because I have read a lot of them elsewhere and the ignorance is rampant. Here, we seek to learn, to know more about things, to provide facts and to share our experiences. I truly cherish each and everyone of you who had contributed to this incredible thread.
 
SBM

Med folks - help, please?

Does four units of blood necessarily equal four transfusions?

Is it possible to give a patient 4 ____ (liters? pints?) of blood in a single transfusion?
Or 2 __ in 2 transfusions?
Or 2__ in one transfusion and 1 ___ in another transfusion?
Is it likelly there were 4 separate transfusions, as Uncle O said?

Does his stmt re pumping blood from lungs, stomach make sense?

My first point:
Is possible/likely Uncle O accurately describing what happened?

My second point:
AFAIK Uncle O was not even present in PICU room to witness this himself, so at best, it is hearsay.

JM2cts and I may be wrong.
Click to expand...

When we talk about blood transfusions we are usually referring to a packed red cell transfusion (or PRBCs). It is rare to transfuse whole blood. Because we only transfuse the red cell component the volume of each unit of blood can vary in total volume . They are usually somewhere between 250-350mL though.

With infants and young/small children transfusion volume is calculated based on weight and a specific volume (in mL) is ordered. This is usually divided up into two equal aliquots and each is usually given over 2-3 hours. The timeframe of the transfusion can be adjusted based on the clinical situation. If you have active bleeding or significantly compromised perfusion you may need to increase the speed of the transfusion. If you are concerned about volume shifts and the potential for fluid building up in the lungs (pulmonary edema) then you will want to give the transfusion more slowly.

With adults, and adult sized kids, transfusions are usually ordered in terms of units. Two units is a common and standard starting point. Each unit will again be given individually over a few hours. Of course you can, and may need to, give more than 2 units in some clinical situations. Active bleeding would be one clinical situation that this might be needed.
 
I'm still having trouble seeing brain death as total complete body and cell death. The brain is not functioning, but the body still lives... with help. I can't see it as decomposing, but deteriorating due to lack of hormones, pituitary gland, movement, capillary function, etc. Of course the situation is hopeless, but it's hard to really accept death until everything stops or the ventilator and meds are removed. I would trust 6 six doctor's prognosis and would not want to continue to be hooked up if it were me or my family though.
 
Linda7NJ said:
Dragging this over from the last thread... Sorry if ya read it already:/


Its not just a grief reaction IMO. There are a whole host of other issues IMO.

These are the very same doctors she handed her living breathing daughter to. They said she would be better after this surgery.

She no longer trusts them.
<modsnip>

I'm not saying that's the case here...

I understand her reluctance to trust.

I think just about everyone on this thread, myself included would let our brain dead loved one go.
However, I would be a fool not to have an independent neurologist of my choosing to confirm the hospitals findings.

Anyone that thinks doctors are perfect, never make mistakes, can't be criminals, don't lie, incapable of committing crimes for profit, not looking after their own best interests is very naive. All IMO.

Again...I'm not saying that's the case here. But it does happen. All too often.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

But what if you had 6 or 7 independent doctors giving you their findings? Are you going to dismiss all of them? The only thing that I see that could have been handled differently, was for the hospital to give them her body right after she was declared brain dead, & let them deal w/ her 'after care'- basically trying to maintain a brain dead corpse, & make it look pretty, & deny the reality of death.

It is tragic that she did not survive the surgery, but it hasn't been established that the hospital, the doctors & staff were at fault.
 
Linda7NJ said:
Dragging this over from the last thread... Sorry if ya read it already:/


Its not just a grief reaction IMO. There are a whole host of other issues IMO.

These are the very same doctors she handed her living breathing daughter to. They said she would be better after this surgery.

She no longer trusts them.
<modsnip>

I'm not saying that's the case here...

I understand her reluctance to trust.

I think just about everyone on this thread, myself included would let our brain dead loved one go.
However, I would be a fool not to have an independent neurologist of my choosing to confirm the hospitals findings.

Anyone that thinks doctors are perfect, never make mistakes, can't be criminals, don't lie, incapable of committing crimes for profit, not looking after their own best interests is very naive. All IMO.

Again...I'm not saying that's the case here. But it does happen. All too often.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I would most likely want confirmation from an outside doctor if I was in the mothers position. I would never find fault in anyone that would want a second or third opinion....

Two of CHO's doctor confirmed that Jahi was deceased. It was then noted that the family and/or CHO had three other doctors evaluate her. Finally, the court also ordered another independent evaluation agreed upon by the mother and CHO.

I remember the mother in the beginning crying and saying that it was her fault. She was blaming herself and she said she just couldn't let them remove the ventilator.

All these strange people started coming out of the woodwork and told her Jahi wasn't dead and there was hope she could recover. I am trying to imagine this mother being in a state of shock. She witnessed something absolutely horrible for a mother to have to see. She wants her baby back. She doesn't want to let go. I get this. These people are feeding her with lies though. She is listening to them because understandably that is what she wants more than anything in the world. There will come a day when this all settles down and she is able to comprehend the reality of everything. She will be angry with those that lied and mislead her, just as she is angry now with the hospital because they are telling her the truth that no mother wants to ever hear.
 
I haven't heard a peep out of anyone today. Has anyone heard anything 'new'. tia
 
txsvicki said:
I'm still having trouble seeing brain death as total complete body and cell death. The brain is not functioning, but the body still lives... with help. I can't see it as decomposing, but deteriorating due to lack of hormones, pituitary gland, movement, capillary function, etc. Of course the situation is hopeless, but it's hard to really accept death until everything stops or the ventilator and meds are removed. I would trust 6 six doctor's prognosis and would not want to continue to be hooked up if it were me or my family though.
Click to expand...


Especially considering the poor brain dead pregnant woman kept alive against her wishes and that of her husbands.

The dead can't carry a pregnancy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
thistle said:
But what if you had 6 or 7 independent doctors giving you their findings? Are you going to dismiss all of them? The only thing that I see that could have been handled differently, was for the hospital to give them her body right after she was declared brain dead, & let them deal w/ her 'after care'- basically trying to maintain a brain dead corpse, & make it look pretty, & deny the reality of death.



It is tragic that she did not survive the surgery, but it hasn't been established that the hospital, the doctors & staff were at fault.
Click to expand...


If it were me... I'm out.
I love my loved ones too much to not let them go if the time ever came.
I signed to have my dad removed.

I don't want to be kept around in a vegetative state, coma, severe head injury, quadriplegic... I'm about quality of life. But that's just me.

I respect other people's opinions on the subject.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
There were, I believe, six different pediatric neurologists who confirmed Jahi was indeed brain dead. Three were independent.

It is sad that her mother has had such a break from reality and is treading so lightly upon this earth. Jahi is decomposing and no amount of love is going to stop that.
 
Linda7NJ said:
Especially considering the poor brain dead pregnant woman kept alive against her wishes and that of her husbands.

The dead can't carry a pregnancy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Do you have a link for this as i have professionally seen it happen eta patient in same situation on ls
 
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