Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #7

[BeginnersLuck]

I actually never thought about those that are helping with the care, being paid or expecting to get paid. I guess I just assumed that it was all charity.

 

[Shecky]

You'd hope that at least the court or coroner has to know where she is. This family is so out of touch with reality that I wouldn't trust them to part with her body even after the hearts stops. There's gotta be someone with common sense keeping some tabs on this situation!

 

[NevadaMom]

<modsnip>


And I stumbled on this...

http://postnewsgroup.com/blog/2014/01/09/faith-confronts-economic-reality-fate-jahi-mcmath/

Some of these questions were raised by Oakland, Civil Rights Attorney John Burris, speaking Tuesday at a forum called &#8220;Race Matters&#8221; sponsored by the Oakland Unified School District.

<snip>

He said the family was not properly advised and that the hospital was probably &#8220;quick&#8221; to end Jahi&#8217;s life without working closely with the family.

According to Burris, at least part of the driving force behind ending Jahi&#8217;s life support so quickly is &#8220;economics.&#8221;

<snip>

The hospital&#8217;s position in essence, he said, is that, &#8220;You can have your religious belief, but you can&#8217;t make us pay for it.&#8221;

Further, the hospital&#8217;s perceived insensitivity to Jahi&#8217;s family has become a major issue among many in the community.

Chas Jackson is a former after school instructor teacher at the school Jahi attended and said he noticed the hospital&#8217;s defensiveness when the family did not accept the hospital&#8217;s decision.

It was as if the hospital administrators &#8220;threw up their hands&#8221; and tried to remove themselves from the situation, Jackson said.

&#8220;It came off as tacky and tasteless on Children&#8217;s Hospital&#8217;s part, and only damaged my shining image of their establishment,&#8221; he said.

Children&#8217;s Hospital seemed to be more worried about a pending lawsuit than the fate of Jahi and the grief of her family, he added.

:facepalm: :banghead: :facepalm: :banghead: :facepalm: :banghead:

Do they really not get that she's deceased?? The only fate is a burial. How much more should the hospital done above and beyond what they did to accommodate the family?! I see they have the people in their community who back them stepping up to the plate to make ridiculous remarks. :sigh:

 

[Peliman]

Doubt it. You can't get blood from a stone and medical liens would be dealt with in the context of a med mal settlement. Assuming CHO doesn't defend the suit. I hope they will. jmo

I know it can be a Chap 7 for the family and I think suppliers of goods and services know it also. It won't surprise me if some aren't asking for payment up front.

 

[Nore]

You'd hope that at least the court or coroner has to know where she is. This family is so out of touch with reality that I wouldn't trust them to part with her body even after the hearts stops. There's gotta be someone with common sense keeping some tabs on this situation!

---------
I wrote previously I believe the coroner would have to know exactly where she is. the coroner has to know where she will be buried. I posted this before.
we found out one cannot just move a body, it is handled through the coroners office. We were surprised at all that must be done.:loveyou:

 

[joypath]

Is that the same John Burris who was a "talking head" on some cable new shows???.....Maybe that's CD's plan for the future??, after he wins off of Jahi's legacy

 

[Quester]

Random quotes/articles, BBM:

* * *

Douglas Straus, a lawyer for the hospital, said in a letter made public Friday that before the hospital would comply with the family's request to move Jahi, it would need to speak directly with officials at any nursing home to make sure they understand her condition, "including the fact that Jahi is brain dead" — and to discuss needed preparations, including transportation.
12/28/13: http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Latest-News-Wires/2013/1228/Jahi-McMath-Family-finds-facility-to-care-for-girl-declared-brain-dead-video
​

* * *

"The medical team and I believe that additional and more dramatic signs of the body's deterioration will continue to manifest over time, regardless of any procedures and regardless of any heroic measures that any facility in the country might attempt," Flori said in the declaration filed in U.S. District Court.

"Mechanical support and other measures taken to maintain an illusion of life where none exists cannot maintain that illusion indefinitely," she added.
1/9/14: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Govern...yer-Claims-Health-Is-Improving-with-Treatment

<modsnip>

* * *

Palliative medicine and the power of letting go: Guest opinion
1/11/14: http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2014/01/palliative_medicine_and_the_po.html
​

<modsnip>
​

* * *

In Jahi's case, keeping her on a ventilator amounts to desecration of a body.
1/9/14: http://www.newsday.com/opinion/oped...t-care-for-those-who-are-brain-dead-1.6767446​

 

[Karmady]

Could you post a link backing up the statement that many people think it is religious?

Imo, I agree it's not a religion. I think it offends the constitution on a different basis and, for that reason, shouldn't be condoned/funded by federal funds or permitted to be taught in a public school. jmo and that's probably getting far afield from the main point of the discussion. Which is, imo, this school is federally funded by taxpayers and, therefore, cannot legally take a faith-based position regarding a student...period...regardless of whether it's based on Christianity or Kwanzaa. jmo

 

[Karmady]

Is that the same John Burris who was a "talking head" on some cable new shows???.....Maybe that's CD's plan for the future??, after he wins off of Jahi's legacy

here's his imdb. I haven't watched the links, but considering it's Sharpton's show, I'm pretty confident it's him. I'll verify with another photo link if I can. jmo

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3176918/?ref_=nm_flmg_slf_1

eta: here's a link re Burris/Sharpton and Oakland civil rights

Between his many misconduct cases, his regular appearances as a commentator on CNN's Nancy Grace show, his work as a TV analyst during the O. J. Simpson murder trial, and a list of celebrity clients that has included Gary Payton, Jason Kidd, Latrell Sprewell, Barry Bonds, Tupac Shakur, Dwayne Wiggins, and former San Francisco Police Chief Earl Sanders, Burris is nearly as well known as his late friend Johnnie Cochran&#8212;and just as controversial.

Among rank-and-file police officers, he is often caricatured as a race-baiting advocate for the bad guys: One baldly racist joke posted on several police humor websites has him traveling with Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson to protest the death in a house fire of "Nigerian con artists," Kenyan "welfare cheats," and "Hispanic gangbangers." In urban black communities, on the other hand, he is just one cape shy of superhero status.


http://www.dashkaslater.com/index.php/journalist/16-journalism/articles/28-burris-s-beat

 

[Cubby]

Cough, cough, thud!

Something stinks more than it did before reading the above.

And that's an understatement.

 

[CHERIE.T]

And that's an understatement.

Cubby, I feel sick after reading the above post by Karmady. Idk, maybe money does fuel this family.... or maybe I should say maybe :banghead: money fuels others besides Uncle.

 

[K_Z]

<modsnip>.

So, "if" (when) the family files lawsuit/s, such as negligence (malpractice), the patient records of the PICU nurses will be evidence. Whatever happened, or not, will be supported in the records. And IF there are witnesses, such as nurses, or other families of patients, they will be investigated and potentially deposed as witnesses.

I have every confidence that the nurse's notes will reflect what happened.

The situation, at present, calls for patience of curiosity. It will all unfold in due time, IMO.

 

[Karmady]

Cubby, I feel sick after reading the above post by Karmady. Idk, maybe money does fuel this family.... or maybe I should say maybe :banghead: money fuels others besides Uncle.

I believe (hope) that the mother is grief-stricken. As I've said a couple of times before, though, grief and greed can sometimes (lots of times) co-exist. Especially when fueled by a fire based on deeply entrenched feelings of victimization. I am cynical, it's true. But only because I've seen it up close and personal so so many times. I think/hope if people start to see the undercurrents of these types of cases that garner enormous amounts of media attention, they'll start to look hard at the various underlying agendas before throwing their hat in for one side or the other. jmo

 

[MissJ]

JMO, as far as Jahi's family knowing not to feed her.....I can tell you that no amount of pre-op instruction works with some people who think they know more than the physician's do. A woman I know was going in for a GI surgery and told not to eat or drink after midnight. She was told why. However on the day of surgery she got up at 5:00 AM and ate a huge breakfast, more than normal because she wouldn't be able to eat all day. Yes she had complications as a result. No one could convince her it was her own fault. She even told them as they were getting her ready to go into surgery that she HAD NOT eaten anything since midnight.

 

[NevadaMom]

JMO, as far as Jahi's family knowing not to feed her.....I can tell you that no amount of pre-op instruction works with some people who think they know more than the physician's do. A woman I know was going in for a GI surgery and told not to eat or drink after midnight. She was told why. However on the day of surgery she got up at 5:00 AM and ate a huge breakfast, more than normal because she wouldn't be able to eat all day. Yes she had complications as a result. No one could convince her it was her own fault. She even told them as they were getting her ready to go into surgery that she HAD NOT eaten anything since midnight.

:facepalm:

I've had many procedures where I too had the whole midnight (food or water) restrictions, and it sucks but I do it. I will never understand why people can't just listen to what they are told. No food means, don't eat. No talking means use the stinking whiteboard to communicate.

Oh the problems that could be solved, and this very thread might not exist if people would just listen to what they are told needs to be done. :maddening:

 

[K_Z]

If anyone is ever tempted to eat a huge breakfast an hour or so before general anesthesia, think twice about withholding that information from your anesthesia provider. Your life may depend on honesty. Really.

Aspiration pneumonitis is, in essence, a chemical burn of the lung tissue from the stomach acid and stomach contents regurgitated into the airway (passively, under anesthesia, often during intubation, and again during extubation). It can kill you. Really.

This is a nice explanation:

Mendelson's syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://medicalmalpracticeexplained.com/aspirations_pnumonitis.html

Edited to add-- ANY anesthesia, not just general anesthesia. The most risky anesthetic is a sedation case, because the patient is spontaneously breathing. Just a few seconds of inattention on the part of the anesthesia provider, or failure to comply with preop instructions by the patient, can mean the difference between life and death.

 

[shana]

<modsnip>

So, "if" (when) the family files lawsuit/s, such as negligence (malpractice), the patient records of the PICU nurses will be evidence. Whatever happened, or not, will be supported in the records. And IF there are witnesses, such as nurses, or other families of patients, they will be investigated and potentially deposed as witnesses.

I have every confidence that the nurse's notes will reflect what happened.

The situation, at present, calls for patience of curiosity. It will all unfold in due time, IMO.

K_Z, thanks for stating so clearly how it will most likely happen, EVIDENCE in records to affirm or deny rumors.

I'm not going to worry my head about nutcases who intervene, nor do I give much mind to distractions such as charter schools and all the rest who have latched-on to this case with personal agendas.

I have confidence that the court observing the law will sort it out...one step, one truth, at a time.

I practice patience, and dismiss from my personal consideration the fluff or stuff which this tragic case has attracted. It will all be done, in due time. I expect no less.

~jmo~

 

[MissJ]

If anyone is ever tempted to eat a huge breakfast an hour or so before general anesthesia, think twice about withholding that information from your anesthesia provider. Your life may depend on honesty. Really.

Aspiration pneumonitis is, in essence, a chemical burn of the lung tissue from the stomach acid and stomach contents regurgitated into the airway (passively, under anesthesia, often during intubation, and again during extubation). It can kill you. Really.

This is a nice explanation:

Mendelson's syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://medicalmalpracticeexplained.com/aspirations_pnumonitis.html

True and all this was explained to that person. She did have aspiration pneumonia but survived. Some people just think they know more than the Doc's do.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

JMO, as far as Jahi's family knowing not to feed her.....I can tell you that no amount of pre-op instruction works with some people who think they know more than the physician's do. A woman I know was going in for a GI surgery and told not to eat or drink after midnight. She was told why. However on the day of surgery she got up at 5:00 AM and ate a huge breakfast, more than normal because she wouldn't be able to eat all day. Yes she had complications as a result. No one could convince her it was her own fault. She even told them as they were getting her ready to go into surgery that she HAD NOT eaten anything since midnight.

I honestly am ignorant as to what complications can arise if pre-op instructions aren't followed. I always just obeyed the orders.

I was thinking about this surgery and how horrible it would be if one were to experience vomiting post-op. If some adults don't obey orders, I can imagine a lot of hungry children and teens sneaking food to eat and lying about it.

Thank goodness anesthesia has come a long way since my first couple surgeries were I didn't fair well in recovery. The last two I had more recently, were a breeze.

eta: thanks KZ for posting the links to the complications!

 

[Karmady]

If anyone is ever tempted to eat a huge breakfast an hour or so before general anesthesia, think twice about withholding that information from your anesthesia provider. Your life may depend on honesty. Really.

Aspiration pneumonitis is, in essence, a chemical burn of the lung tissue from the stomach acid and stomach contents regurgitated into the airway (passively, under anesthesia, often during intubation, and again during extubation). It can kill you. Really.

This is a nice explanation:

Mendelson's syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://medicalmalpracticeexplained.com/aspirations_pnumonitis.html

It blows my mind that eating for ONE day is more important to some people than whether they may die. I'm not a big rule follower, but deliberately eating a big breakfast because you might be hungry for a bit (waahh...really?) is crazy, imo.