Fast Food Workers Want $15/hr

[Charlie09]

I said a few times, it should not be the be all/end all. It's fine as a starting document. It's fine as a beginning. But again, it should not be ALL there is to a society.

But it is the end all in our Constitutional Republic.

 

[Gardenlady]

Yes, how dare they get any type of tax break for providing jobs, that enable people to pay taxes, and education, and provide any sort of healthcare to employees...it's all the governments job.

/sarcasm

This sounds remarkably like telling everyone they should shut up and grovel in gratitude before all business owners, for being generous enough to provide us with jobs! :lol:

How about instead, the business owners grovel before the workers in gratitude for making their profits possible?

 

[lil_buddy]

Yes, how dare they get any type of tax break for providing jobs, that enable people to pay taxes, and education, and provide any sort of healthcare to employees...it's all the governments job.

/sarcasm

:clap:
While the corporations make record profits and the country experiences record unemployment.

Where is my gratitude?
uke:

 

[Gardenlady]

But it is the end all in our Constitutional Republic.

Obviously it's not, since it provides for ways to amend it, and provides for a legislature to pass laws for things not covered in that document.

If it WERE the end all, business owners down south would still be making profits off the backs of slaves, and women wouldn't have the right to vote.

 

[lil_buddy]

Thank you BP for dumping your crap in our waters.
You provided jobs for the clean-up crews!
You want a tax break with that?
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/04/22/bp-cut-tax-13b-losses-spill/

 

[Gardenlady]

The worst education decision, IMO, was when the trade schools were phased out. There was a time when we let kids choose either a trade to learn in high school or the college bound courses. Today, think of how many of the kids leaving HS or dropping out early could instead be enticed to learn a trade. There are so many new green technologies that could be put in place with the right people. Alot of the development in these areas is stymied due to the fact that the only folks really qualified are often degreed workers who demand top pay. Computer programmers, mechanics, etc. They still did 1/2 day of academics and then 1/2 of tech. We really need to revisit this concept. Many kids are just not college bound.

I agree that it's a shame we no longer have trade schools. Germany, for example, has an excellent system of trade schools.

The problem is though, manufacturing has been outsourced. Many of those trade jobs are gone forever overseas somewhere, to countries that still make things.

 

[Gardenlady]

You are right that not everyone will move up to upper or middle management. But the standard (based on most places I've worked) is a raise after 90 days, and an annual review/raise after that, just for doing your job.

I'll have to defer to others with specific fast food industry knowledge, but at the theater, anyone could move up if they met a few qualifications. We didn't have to wait for an opening. There could be 12 box office attendants working on a given shift - some of them might be working the snack bar or cleaning trash but they still get the box office pay.

You had to work there 90 days to become a cashier, and prove you could make change. You had to be available to work any shift. You had to have a good attendance record and no disciplinary actions.

30 days later, you could work in the box office if you continued to not have disciplinary actions, had good attendance, and an accurate cash register history. (Less than a $2 variance per shift)

You were being paid more because you were trained to do more things, so they had more choices of where they could use you. By the time you reached the box office, the pay was more than double minimum wage.

There were a couple people I remember that preferred to just clean the trash since they didn't have to deal with the public, and turned down chances to move up. Do you think they should be paid what the box office people were making? They are the ones who should stay at the lowest end, since they are choosing to be there!

I still stand behind what I've said earlier though, that I don't think raising the pay in fast food is the right answer, I think it will push the unskilled worker out of the job market because skilled workers will want their jobs.

I think the answer lies somewhere between changing the public assistance system in favor of those who work but can't make ends meet, and offering training to help people get the skills needed to get out of the minimum wage fast food jobs.

I'm not cold-hearted, I just think the domino effect of this proposition is going to end up hurting these workers more than it helps them.

BBM - Why would skilled workers want to move into unskilled jobs? :waitasec:

 

[Gardenlady]

:clap:
While the corporations make record profits and the country experiences record unemployment.

Where is my gratitude?
uke:

Disgustingly ironic, to hear this kind of thing on Labor Day weekend, isn't it? :floorlaugh:

 

[Sonya610]

Because I don't see either document as the be all/end all of how a society of civilized people should be set up and run. Nor do I think the progress of humanity - or just our nation - should be frozen in the standards of a small subset of privileged men who lived over two centuries ago.

Yeah, obviously. Those men were old school. Now we have new school! And it is working out SO MUCH BETTER!

High crime rates, elderly being killed by "children", those popping out babies KNOWING that they will be supported by Daddy Government, yeah much better indeed! So much better!

And this country was founded by a "small subset of privileged men". Those men were brilliant and bold. But now they are to be mocked? Wow. That says it all, right there.

 

[Odyssey]

BBM - Why would skilled workers want to move into unskilled jobs? :waitasec:

If they're out of work and can earn a good wage doing them, why wouldn't they?

 

[shygrl]

BBM - Why would skilled workers want to move into unskilled jobs? :waitasec:

Because depending on where you live your sills would get you less pay then fast food. Here it is pretty normal to start out at 10$-12$ an hour with an associates or 2 year degree. If you could get 15$ an hour for fast food why go work for a company that pays less and expects more?

 

[lil_buddy]

Disgustingly ironic, to hear this kind of thing on Labor Day weekend, isn't it? :floorlaugh:

What makes me sad is that the media seems to have convinced small business owners that their interests are aligned with the interests of the large corporations.

Meanwhile the Walmarts and the Home Depots and the Applebees are crushing them out of existence.

SMH.

 

[Lucky 1]

So he didn't own the company that paid for your salary and ultimately his porsche?

It was given to him by his uncle, who built the business with his blood, sweat, tears, mortgaging his home (twice!), etc. The nephew *Boss* did none of those things, simply sucked it dry.

So yeah, sure, he "owned" the company, which gave him the right to behave any way he chose - right, wrong or indifferent.

And your point?

Simply because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD. :twocents:

 

[Gardenlady]

Do you not see, though, that a minimum wage hike benefits all, not just those at the bottom?

A living wage, or even just a higher minimum, means more spending. If it is spending that drives this capitalist system, then spending means more transactions, more business. Why would it not translate into more jobs, resulting in less competition over merely a few?

Also I note that you all will acknowledge higher skilled workers competing for lower skilled jobs when it suits your argument. Earlier in thread, many of you made disparaging remarks about unskilled jobs like fast food workers (things like "I question the decisions they made in life", or "why don't they get another job if they don't like it?", etc), and seemed to deny that there was a need to be in them if one was qualified for a better job.

Funny, that.

 

[Odyssey]

Do you not see, though, that a minimum wage hike benefits all, not just those at the bottom?

A living wage, or even just a higher minimum, means more spending. If it is spending that drives this capitalist system, then spending means more transactions, more business. Why would it not translate into more jobs, resulting in less competition over merely a few?

Also I note that you all will acknowledge higher skilled workers competing for lower skilled jobs when it suits your argument. Earlier in thread, many of you made disparaging remarks about unskilled jobs like fast food workers (things like "I question the decisions they made in life", or "why don't they get another job if they don't like it?", etc), and seemed to deny that there was a need to be in them if one was qualified for a better job.

Funny, that.

I don't think anyone is saying that skilled workers would compete for fast food jobs at their current salary, but that it would be the case if fast food jobs end up with salaries on par with skilled jobs.

The latter referred to people at the current salary who can't make ends meet and expect large pay increases.

 

[Gardenlady]

Yeah, obviously. Those men were old school. Now we have new school! And it is working out SO MUCH BETTER!

High crime rates, elderly being killed by "children", those popping out babies KNOWING that they will be supported by Daddy Government, yeah much better indeed! So much better!

And this country was founded by a "small subset of privileged men". Those men were brilliant and bold. But now they are to be mocked? Wow. That says it all, right there.

That's pretty revealing, your opinion of the average low wage worker. I guess your average fast food worker is deserving of mockery, but not some dead guys?

Sorry, the founders aren't my saints, nor do I worship at the altar of Americanism or capitalism. My favorite saints are actually Dorothy Day, Oscar Romero, and Cesar Chavez (none reached full canonization yet, but soon!)

 

[Montjoy]

My favorite saints are actually Dorothy Day, Oscar Romero, and Cesar Chavez (none reached full canonization yet, but soon!)

I agree that Doris Day was a terrific actress, and Cesar Romero was the quintessential Joker (on the Batman TV series), but I'm not sure that either should be considered on the path to sainthood.

(Sorry! Just want to insert a bit of levity here.)

 

[Gardenlady]

I don't think anyone is saying that skilled workers would compete for fast food jobs at their current salary, but that it would be the case if fast food employees end up with salaries on par with skilled jobs.

The latter referred to people at the current salary who can't make ends meet and expect large pay increases.

Regardless of how atrociously low the current wage is, the sad fact is that skilled folks ARE competing for them, right now, because often they are the only jobs out there.

And so when someone takes a job like this, because its better than nothing a all - they are mocked, or met with "just get a better job if you don't like the pay!" :banghead:

 

[Gardenlady]

I agree that Doris Day was a terrific actress, and Cesar Romero was the quintessential Joker (on the Batman TV series), but I'm not sure that either should be considered on the path to sainthood.

(Sorry! Just want to insert a bit of levity here.)

:lol:

Thanks, I needed a good laugh, seriously! :blowkiss:

 

[gitana1]

My first job was at McDonald's. I was 15 and begged them to higher me. I was living on my own, going to school, and just trying to make extra money to support myself.

The manger tried, but couldn't higher me at 15, this was in 1991. When I turn 16 she used my year book photo to prove I was old enough to higher,

I made minimum wage. I worked my *advertiser censored* off.

I am now 38. If my son wanted a job, I would expect nothing less of him.

During my HS years I closed, worked hard hours and paid my dues. I was only paid minimum wage for 45 days upon hiring. Then I got 2 raises because I had proven myself.

Why do so many young people today seem to expect respect, instead of proving they are worthy of respect?

Things have changed. In 1992, people got raises when they worked hard because the economy was better.

People no longer get raises for working their tails off. Now, instead of being rewarded for hard work, people feel like they are being punished. They get benefits reduced, hours reduced, furlough days (unpaid days), and laid off. When hired at new jobs, they are hired at much lower rates of pay and often must do 2.5 times the work for less.

No, they are not. That is entitlement. You are owed what you agree to work for. If you want more money then be worth more to the company. Simple as that. Who decides what a "fair" wage is? The business gets to decide that. They are the ones running the business and figuring the expenses and what an employee's job is worth to the company. If you want someone to mow your lawn don't you pay based on how much the job is worth to you? Or do you pay based on how many kids or pets or whatever, they are trying to support? If no one wants to do it for the price you are willing to pay then you have to decide if you are willing to pay more, do it yourself, or not have it done. Why is a business responsible for making sure you make enough to feed your children? Don't have them until you are not making minimum wage anymore.

Sometimes strikers determine what fair pay is. Sometimes their efforts pay off. I keep hearing this argument that if you don't like the pay, don't work there. But many people have zero choice. See my comment above. They are let go from a former, better paying job and then are reduced to lower paying jobs that go nowhere.

What many people feel is the problem (and why they feel "entitled" to more), is that the corporate big wigs (and I'm not talking about small business owners), pretty much never take a hit.

I remember the large-scale California supermarket strikes in 03'-04'. During that time, the stores fought the unions hard saying they would fold if they gave into the worker's demands not to dramatically cut benefits (health/pension). The year of the strike, my friend's mom, who was in charge of the deli departments of Albertson's in her region, earned a $20,000.00 bonus. She took her two sons and their girlfriends on an all expenses paid trip to Oahu with some of the bonus. Okay? That was the same year the stores were screaming about how they simply didn't have the funds to continue the benefits for the lower scale workers.

That's the thing. The people who allow these companies to succeed, the bread and butter workers, always get the shaft, while corporate sits pretty. I think the blue collar workers are essentially asking, in many of these cases, that everyone across the board takes a hit when the economy sours, but pretty much universally, it is only the "underlings" who have to shoulder the weight of the economic decline.

Let's look at what CEOs, for example, in the fast food industry have been earning:

NEW YORK — McDonald's Corp. more than tripled the pay packages last year for its new CEO Don Thompson and the man he replaced, Jim Skinner.
The pay increases came at a challenging time for the world's biggest hamburger chain. McDonald's is facing intensifying competition, a trend toward healthier eating and weak economic conditions in many countries where it operates.
McDonald's, based in Oak Brook, Ill., gave Thompson a package worth $13.8 million, up from the $4.1 million he received in 2011, according to a regulatory filing made Friday.
Skinner's pay meanwhile rose to $27.7 million from $8.8 million the year before, reflecting a $10.2 million payment as part of his retirement under his contract agreement. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/12/mcdonalds-ceo-pay_n_3070833.html

NEW YORK (AP) — Burger King CEO Bernardo Hees got a big pay hike last year as the world's second-largest hamburger chain revamped its menu and began trading publicly again.
The Miami-based fast-food chain gave Hees a pay package worth $6.5 million, according to a filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission. That's up 61 percent from the $4 million he received in 2011.

The compensation for the 43-year-old Hees included a base salary of $750,000, which was unchanged from the previous year. His option awards rose to $4.2 million, from $1.2 million, in part because he used a "bonus swap" program that allowed him to use some of his bonus pay to buy shares and get matching shares from the company.
Since taking over Burger King, 3G has applied its aggressive cost-cutting strategy that included slashing jobs at its headquarters and shifting to an entirely franchised model. http://bigstory.ap.org/article/burger-king-gives-ceo-pay-hike-amid-revitalization

And it's not just CEO's. It's also all shareholders:

Pay Disparity

The pay gap separating fast-food workers from their chief executive officers is growing at each of those companies. The disparity has doubled at McDonald’s Corp. in the last 10 years, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. At the same time, the company helped pay for lobbying against minimum-wage increases and sought to quash the kind of unionization efforts that erupted recently on the streets of Chicago and New York.
Older workers like Johnson are staffing fast-food grills and fryers more often, according to data from the U.S. Census Bureau’s Current Population Survey. In 2010, 16- to 19-year-olds made up 17 percent of food preparation and serving workers, down from almost a quarter in 2000, as older, underemployed Americans took those jobs.
“The sheer number of adults in the industry has just exploded” because fast-food restaurants “not only survived, but thrived during the economic recession,” said Saru Jayaraman, director of the Food Labor Research Center at the University of California at Berkeley.


The recovery from the last downturn has been the most uneven in recent history. The 1.2 million households whose incomes put them in the top 1 percent of the U.S. saw their earnings increase 5.5 percent last year, according to census estimates. Earnings fell 1.7 percent for the 97 million households in the bottom 80 percent -- those who made less than $101,583.
The widening chasm is most pronounced in the restaurant and retail businesses. The total number of people employed in the U.S. at Wal-Mart Stores Inc. and McDonald’s and Yum Brands restaurants exceeds the entire 2.7 million population of Chicago. Net income at those three companies has jumped by at least 22 percent from four years ago.
Shareholders Benefit

Shareholders, not employees, have reaped the rewards. McDonald’s, for example, spent $6 billion on share repurchases and dividends last year, the equivalent of $14,286 per restaurant worker employed by the company. At the same time, restaurant companies have formed an industrywide effort to freeze the minimum wage, whose purchasing power is 20 percent less than in 1968, according to the Economic Policy Institute, a think tank that advocates for low- and middle-income workers. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-12/mcdonald-s-8-25-man-and-8-75-million-ceo-shows-pay-gap.html

So instead of helping to shoulder some of the weight of the economic downturn, the execs and shareholders have shifted the weight of the recession solely to the backs of the workers and as a result, while the workers struggle to eat and see freezes in minimum wage, etc., the rich have been benefiting, the corporations have been benefiting and actually getting richer and increasing profits, while the country struggles.

It's actually quite insane, really. I get the argument about what choices led a 35 year old to be working fast food but apparently the answer for many is not that they are just lazy, ignorant slobs who made poor choices, but instead lost jobs due to economic downturn and now have really no other choice but to grab what they can get.

But while they scrape and scramble to survive working two and three minimum wage jobs, they are becoming impatient watching the harsh efforts to slash employee benefits and wages, or to freeze wages at a place that doesn't come close to matching the current cost of living, result not in a stabilization of profits for these companies, but in actual increases in profits to these major corporations. It's like the corporations are profiting from the lack of choice and the economic struggles of the working class and middle class turned working poor.

I think that's the issue here. It makes a lot of sense to me.