FBI says Caylee never left local Orlando area

[sweetwater]

Woah! I don't remember this. What the heck?

Yeah. What the heck?
It was Cindy's way of saying they were alive, in Casey's room that morning.

 

[sweetwater]

I would have to look it up, but I believe that if the body was moved to the car quickly (which is what I believe) then the dogs wouldn't pick up on it.

Or moved out to the yard/sandbox, around that hibiscus next to the pool, or out to that indentation in the yard that George told the crime scene investigator he didn't remember being there before.
That's another biggie for me.
Remember, the Anthonys did NOT tell the first investigators that they had re-done the yard and brought in pavers. One of the neighbors told a reporter, who notified LE, who then came back out.
:croc::liar:

 

[SeekingJana]

IMO, in the time period of 13 years since the Internet has provided a forum for true crime discussion, there have been three familial murder cases which captured America's and the world's hearts and which provoked an extremely high level of discussion.
They are: JonBenet Ramsey murder; Laci and Connor Peterson murders; Caylee Anthony murder.

The first two famous cases, JonBenet's and Laci's, have taught us some things about trace crime scene evidence. Probably more than we wanted to know.

The first principle we shouldn't ignore is that in the other two cases, there were information leaks. Significant leaks from the Petersons, and some probably from both sides. There were undeniable serious leaks in the JBR case, enormous and significant leaks which compromised an already poorly processed crime scene to the point of probable unprovability. But, dead is dead. Our sweet JonBenet has been gone over a decade and through her case discussion, discussion of the autopsy report and also details of the basement crime scene, we learned much about what happens when a child dies at the hands of another family member in her own home.

In Caylee's case, not so much information has been leaked as rumors, IMO. I believe we have the barest of facts about Caylee's last days of life and her death, which is a good thing going into trial. I think we should recognize that we don't have any major player in the Caylee case running their mouth like we had in both Laci's case and JonBenet's- both probably done in an attempt to contaminate a jury pool and obfuscate the case details.

Next, and I think this is very important, we learned that when people die, whether a 30 pound child or a 100+ pound heavily pregnant woman, bodily fluids are released at the time of death. Bowel and bladder muscles involuntarily release their contents. If the victim was strangled, there may be traces of vomit and blood-tinged saliva.

If Caylee was killed in the Anthony's house, as she well might have been, the house has had a thorough crime scene processing for large dried residue of urine and perhaps saliva and vomit, depending upon the method of killing and whether or not she was still in diapers. I would think she was out of diapers, but I can't say as she seemed to be behind the curve verbally, probably due to lack of consistent parenting (understatement).

I have read that the Anthony house has had both permanent carpeting and area rugs removed. No household cleaner will completely eliminate residue, because in the removing attempts, the same fluids are smeared and spread out wards.

We have heard evidence of this smearing transfer happening in both JonBenet's murder ( urine transferred on her clothing, evidence that the body was wiped down, urine found in the hallway outside the wine cellar room) and Laci's ( mop with traces of bodily fluids and also dining room/ kitchen floor with biological residue).
IMO, there is no reason to think that the same doesn't/ didn't exist in the Anthony house.

It was confusing for a while when we were informed of a " dark stain" in the trunk along with the decomp. smell. I believe the stain is related to bowel contents being pushed out of Caylee's remains by decomp. gases in the trunk. This is one of the first steps of overt human decomposition due to the large amount of normal bacteria in the lower GI tract.

I used to think that maybe Caylee was thrown in the trunk alive, and allowed to die. But, with that theory comes the possibility that :
1) She would be heard thrashing about, kicking, or tape coming off and screaming, thus living, with Casey in deep undeniable trouble immediately. No time for Fusian partying... a one way ticket to jail, which I don't think she ever believed would happen.
2) Casey probably has very little knowledge of human biology and pathology. Casey could not be assured that if she left her child in a car overnight, with drugs and even Chloroform, that the child would be dead in the AM. She could have been brain- damaged but alive, which would then necessitate more effort on the part of a very disorganized mind to finish the killing and hide all evidence as best as possible.
3) Casey never wanted Caylee, not even to be born. I think this is painfully and horribly obvious to all now. When she decided to kill her, she didn't do it in a moment of white hot impulsive anger. She researched children's deaths and disappearances for a while, according to what we do know already from her home computer files.
I believe the FBI and other LE has a clear cut theory on where and how Caylee was killed. We simply don't have all the puzzle pieces yet. Unless Casey takes a plea deal, which I don't see her doing now, we will learn how experts believe Caylee was killed and where during the trial. George may be instrumental in his observations as retired LE.
The most important thing we know at this point, IMO, is that Caylee's dead body was in the trunk of Casey's car for 2-3 days in the hot Florida sun before it was dumped in the wooded area. Nothing can undo or adequately explain away the death bands on the hair and the biological material stain on the carpeting in the trunk. Nothing can undo or explain away the maggots and flies which fed on the human remains, some insects which probably had human biologic material in their digestive tracts on dissection.

I believe there has been much discovered within the Anthony house in recent weeks. Perhaps from the start, but maybe search efforts were limited by law until the remains were found so close to the house.
The house became a solid crime scene when Caylee's body was found so close to it, and when her book, also from the house, was found with her skeletal remains. IMO.

Maria

 

[Imajica]

IMO, in the time period of 13 years since the Internet has provided a forum for true crime discussion, there have been three familial murder cases which captured America's and the world's hearts and which provoked an extremely high level of discussion.
They are: JonBenet Ramsey murder; Laci and Connor Peterson murders; Caylee Anthony murder.

The first two famous cases, JonBenet's and Laci's, have taught us some things about trace crime scene evidence. Probably more than we wanted to know.

The first principle we shouldn't ignore is that in the other two cases, there were information leaks. Significant leaks from the Petersons, and some probably from both sides. There were undeniable serious leaks in the JBR case, enormous and significant leaks which compromised an already poorly processed crime scene to the point of probable unprovability. But, dead is dead. Our sweet JonBenet has been gone over a decade and through her case discussion, discussion of the autopsy report and also details of the basement crime scene, we learned much about what happens when a child dies at the hands of another family member in her own home.

In Caylee's case, not so much information has been leaked as rumors, IMO. I believe we have the barest of facts about Caylee's last days of life and her death, which is a good thing going into trial. I think we should recognize that we don't have any major player in the Caylee case running their mouth like we had in both Laci's case and JonBenet's- both probably done in an attempt to contaminate a jury pool and obfuscate the case details.

Next, and I think this is very important, we learned that when people die, whether a 30 pound child or a 100+ pound heavily pregnant woman, bodily fluids are released at the time of death. Bowel and bladder muscles involuntarily release their contents. If the victim was strangled, there may be traces of vomit and blood-tinged saliva.

If Caylee was killed in the Anthony's house, as she well might have been, the house has had a thorough crime scene processing for large dried residue of urine and perhaps saliva and vomit, depending upon the method of killing and whether or not she was still in diapers. I would think she was out of diapers, but I can't say as she seemed to be behind the curve verbally, probably due to lack of consistent parenting (understatement).

I have read that the Anthony house has had both permanent carpeting and area rugs removed. No household cleaner will completely eliminate residue, because in the removing attempts, the same fluids are smeared and spread out wards.

We have heard evidence of this smearing transfer happening in both JonBenet's murder ( urine transferred on her clothing, evidence that the body was wiped down, urine found in the hallway outside the wine cellar room) and Laci's ( mop with traces of bodily fluids and also dining room/ kitchen floor with biological residue).
IMO, there is no reason to think that the same doesn't/ didn't exist in the Anthony house.

It was confusing for a while when we were informed of a " dark stain" in the trunk along with the decomp. smell. I believe the stain is related to bowel contents being pushed out of Caylee's remains by decomp. gases in the trunk. This is one of the first steps of overt human decomposition due to the large amount of normal bacteria in the lower GI tract.

I used to think that maybe Caylee was thrown in the trunk alive, and allowed to die. But, with that theory comes the possibility that :
1) She would be heard thrashing about, kicking, or tape coming off and screaming, thus living, with Casey in deep undeniable trouble immediately. No time for Fusian partying... a one way ticket to jail, which I don't think she ever believed would happen.
2) Casey probably has very little knowledge of human biology and pathology. Casey could not be assured that if she left her child in a car overnight, with drugs and even Chloroform, that the child would be dead in the AM. She could have been brain- damaged but alive, which would then necessitate more effort on the part of a very disorganized mind to finish the killing and hide all evidence as best as possible.
3) Casey never wanted Caylee, not even to be born. I think this is painfully and horribly obvious to all now. When she decided to kill her, she didn't do it in a moment of white hot impulsive anger. She researched children's deaths and disappearances for a while, according to what we do know already from her home computer files.
I believe the FBI and other LE has a clear cut theory on where and how Caylee was killed. We simply don't have all the puzzle pieces yet. Unless Casey takes a plea deal, which I don't see her doing now, we will learn how experts believe Caylee was killed and where during the trial. George may be instrumental in his observations as retired LE.
The most important thing we know at this point, IMO, is that Caylee's dead body was in the trunk of Casey's car for 2-3 days in the hot Florida sun before it was dumped in the wooded area. Nothing can undo or adequately explain away the death bands on the hair and the biological material stain on the carpeting in the trunk. Nothing can undo or explain away the maggots and flies which fed on the human remains, some insects which probably had human biologic material in their digestive tracts on dissection.

I believe there has been much discovered within the Anthony house in recent weeks. Perhaps from the start, but maybe search efforts were limited by law until the remains were found so close to the house.
The house became a solid crime scene when Caylee's body was found so close to it, and when her book, also from the house, was found with her skeletal remains. IMO.

Maria

Wow, that was an amazing post!! Very thorough!! You make some very powerful points. Especially regarding the trunk evidence. It's going to be impossible to explain away the biological materials related to decomp in Casey's trunk! Especially since at no time in Casey's lies did she ever say that the Invisible Nanny drove her car!

I agree that these high profile cases have taught Law Enforcement a great deal about forensic discovery. I am glad that the loss of these precious lives has had some sort of positive consequence.

I like to think that Jon Benet is playing Dollies with Caylee in Heaven..

 

[pirate]

Great post, Maria. We all have to remember that the evidence of decomp in the trunk, including Caylee's hairs is going to prove to be THE SMOKING GUN in this case. Even if the defense wants to claim that Casey didn't dispose of the body, she sure drove around with it in her trunk.

 

[shelbar53]

IMO, in the time period of 13 years since the Internet has provided a forum for true crime discussion, there have been three familial murder cases which captured America's and the world's hearts and which provoked an extremely high level of discussion.
They are: JonBenet Ramsey murder; Laci and Connor Peterson murders; Caylee Anthony murder.

The first two famous cases, JonBenet's and Laci's, have taught us some things about trace crime scene evidence. Probably more than we wanted to know.

The first principle we shouldn't ignore is that in the other two cases, there were information leaks. Significant leaks from the Petersons, and some probably from both sides. There were undeniable serious leaks in the JBR case, enormous and significant leaks which compromised an already poorly processed crime scene to the point of probable unprovability. But, dead is dead. Our sweet JonBenet has been gone over a decade and through her case discussion, discussion of the autopsy report and also details of the basement crime scene, we learned much about what happens when a child dies at the hands of another family member in her own home.

In Caylee's case, not so much information has been leaked as rumors, IMO. I believe we have the barest of facts about Caylee's last days of life and her death, which is a good thing going into trial. I think we should recognize that we don't have any major player in the Caylee case running their mouth like we had in both Laci's case and JonBenet's- both probably done in an attempt to contaminate a jury pool and obfuscate the case details.

Next, and I think this is very important, we learned that when people die, whether a 30 pound child or a 100+ pound heavily pregnant woman, bodily fluids are released at the time of death. Bowel and bladder muscles involuntarily release their contents. If the victim was strangled, there may be traces of vomit and blood-tinged saliva.

If Caylee was killed in the Anthony's house, as she well might have been, the house has had a thorough crime scene processing for large dried residue of urine and perhaps saliva and vomit, depending upon the method of killing and whether or not she was still in diapers. I would think she was out of diapers, but I can't say as she seemed to be behind the curve verbally, probably due to lack of consistent parenting (understatement).

I have read that the Anthony house has had both permanent carpeting and area rugs removed. No household cleaner will completely eliminate residue, because in the removing attempts, the same fluids are smeared and spread out wards.

We have heard evidence of this smearing transfer happening in both JonBenet's murder ( urine transferred on her clothing, evidence that the body was wiped down, urine found in the hallway outside the wine cellar room) and Laci's ( mop with traces of bodily fluids and also dining room/ kitchen floor with biological residue).
IMO, there is no reason to think that the same doesn't/ didn't exist in the Anthony house.

It was confusing for a while when we were informed of a " dark stain" in the trunk along with the decomp. smell. I believe the stain is related to bowel contents being pushed out of Caylee's remains by decomp. gases in the trunk. This is one of the first steps of overt human decomposition due to the large amount of normal bacteria in the lower GI tract.

I used to think that maybe Caylee was thrown in the trunk alive, and allowed to die. But, with that theory comes the possibility that :
1) She would be heard thrashing about, kicking, or tape coming off and screaming, thus living, with Casey in deep undeniable trouble immediately. No time for Fusian partying... a one way ticket to jail, which I don't think she ever believed would happen.
2) Casey probably has very little knowledge of human biology and pathology. Casey could not be assured that if she left her child in a car overnight, with drugs and even Chloroform, that the child would be dead in the AM. She could have been brain- damaged but alive, which would then necessitate more effort on the part of a very disorganized mind to finish the killing and hide all evidence as best as possible.
3) Casey never wanted Caylee, not even to be born. I think this is painfully and horribly obvious to all now. When she decided to kill her, she didn't do it in a moment of white hot impulsive anger. She researched children's deaths and disappearances for a while, according to what we do know already from her home computer files.
I believe the FBI and other LE has a clear cut theory on where and how Caylee was killed. We simply don't have all the puzzle pieces yet. Unless Casey takes a plea deal, which I don't see her doing now, we will learn how experts believe Caylee was killed and where during the trial. George may be instrumental in his observations as retired LE.
The most important thing we know at this point, IMO, is that Caylee's dead body was in the trunk of Casey's car for 2-3 days in the hot Florida sun before it was dumped in the wooded area. Nothing can undo or adequately explain away the death bands on the hair and the biological material stain on the carpeting in the trunk. Nothing can undo or explain away the maggots and flies which fed on the human remains, some insects which probably had human biologic material in their digestive tracts on dissection.

I believe there has been much discovered within the Anthony house in recent weeks. Perhaps from the start, but maybe search efforts were limited by law until the remains were found so close to the house.
The house became a solid crime scene when Caylee's body was found so close to it, and when her book, also from the house, was found with her skeletal remains. IMO.

Maria

Interesting post, however I have not read about "permanent carpeting and area rugs removed."

Any idea on where I can read that info?

IIRC the A's put the pavers in around the July 4th holiday. Is that what you remember?

 

[scandi]

it was also at least 31 days since Caylees body had been in the trunk of the car at the house (when she was backing into the garage) if you go by LE saying she died the night of the 15th or early 16th of June

Hi Okiedokietoo, In the Madeleine McCann case I have done a lot of study on sniffer dogs. One of the first things I learned is that a human recovery dog can sniff a death scent for up to 7 years.

I qualify that to say it also depends on the quality of the dog, and the scent can linger up to 7 years ;}



ETA: Hi Txsvicki, Shades if yesterday. I remember learning about that special tracker dog sniffing little flakes of skin down the hwy to the marina and ending up like you say at the end of the pier looking out over the water. To this day my heart still skipps a beat when I contemplate anything to do with losing Laci and Connor. xox

 

[Intermezzo]

I havent read the whole thread yet, so forgive me if this has been said, but if they know she wasnt taken out of the neighborhood, then I wonder how she was killed and where, because it obviously wasnt a bloody death (God, I hate writing that) because no signs of obvious blood trauma have been found so far (that we know of).......so what are your thoughts on this finding?

How is ?????
My own thoughts Where could be:
Anthony Home(somewhere on the property, pool..)
In Casey's car
The playground at the Elementary School or somewhere in that vicinty, only because school was out for the summer and few to no people would be driving on that part of Suburban Dr since it came to a dead end at the school and wooded on both sides of the road for a good portion.
Probably one of the reasons why Caylee's body was dumped there.

 

[DotsEyes]

Never left Orlando? She never left the house alive!

Caylee died at home, at the hands of her mother. The only time she left the house was in a gabage bag to be thrown in the trunk until mommy had time to dump the bag into the swampy woods.

Everyone can understand a terrible accident. It is sort of those "but for the Grace of God" kind of things. But, this was no accident. If it were, KC would be blaming everyone and everything around her forthe accident, i.e., blaming someone else for not putting the pool ladder away, blaming someone else for leaving poison where Caylee could reach it, etc.

 

[Imajica]

Interesting post, however I have not read about "permanent carpeting and area rugs removed."

Any idea on where I can read that info?

IIRC the A's put the pavers in around the July 4th holiday. Is that what you remember?

Ahh yes, I wanted to ask about the carpeting info as well. Thanks for the memory jog. I hadn't heard that tidbit previously. Anyone know where that is referenced?

 

[Laneymae]

~ snip ~

They can second guess Dr. G all they want..and LE too...but when the FBI, backed by Quantico, presents their evidence...NO DOUBT the jurors will be starining their ears to hear their every word.

I love this part because Casey asked the FBI to get involved. :behindbar:slap:

 

[capoly]

Actually that's the fourth version:

- Casey handed off Caylee to ZFG on the steps of the Sawgrass apartments and Casey then drove off to go to work (Casey)

- ZFG and her sister Samantha, in Blanchard Park, knocked Casey down, snatched Caylee from Casey's arms, then got in a car with Samantha's 2 children and drove off (Baez, Lee, LP)

- Casey handed off Caylee to ZFG in Blanchard Park (Todd Black)

- Casey dropped Caylee off with ZFG and another woman in an apartment complex parking lot and saw them drive away together (Baez)

We need to start making a dartboard with all these different versions.

In looking for info on another child in Florida I came across the article below. At first I thought the paper had Casey's story mixed in with someone elses. Rather strange.

Missing Boy Found But Case Remains A Mystery

http://cbs4.com/local/Missing.Baby.Tyvon.2.481019.html?detectflash=false

 

[KR2tonenow]

I saw a media report that mentioned a book. I have not seen any official report on the book.

However, wouldn't a book that was out in the elements for six months not look much like a book anymore? Wouldnt it 'dissolve'?

I did see the photo and the blowup. Even before the first discussion about the book, that's what I thought I saw, too. But after looking at it a bit more, I was thinking it had to be the golden and brown leaves with sunlight on them.

Do we have any actual authentication on the book?

Maybe a fellow sleuther can tract it, but I think this item if found will play a huge part for the Prosecution. A kidnapper would throw items away and then dispose the body. Why? This identifies this baby quickly. KC in a panic (in trying to make this look like a kidnapping) would assume that items she had last with her, would go into the woods (wrong). No jury in the world will buy the theory that someone else did it.

 

[Coley]

According to Fox News, The FBI has finally responded to the many "claims" that Caylee was taken out of her local Orlando area.

"As to the question of whether someone might have taken Caylee out of the Orlando area where she lived, the FBI said there wasn't any indication that was the case.

"At no time did we find any evidence that this young child left this location," said Tampa FBI Special Agent Steven Ibison."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,469785,00.html

Personally I find it significant that the FBI released that large detail, coming on the heel's of the immediate spin by the defense regarding the "Kidnappers" and the the statement by one of the Attorney's that Casey would "never" dump a body that close to her home.

I believe that LE is attempting to subtly let the public know the truth, even though they are very limited in which details they can release right now.

In my opinion, that statement from Special Agent Ibison basically says "Caylee was killed not far from where she was found, and all of the evidence we have in our possession supports this fact!"

Thoughts? Feedback?

All I have to say is DUH. KC never left the area either.

ETA: The pings told us this months ago so I'm confused why the FBI would even say this or is it just the media looking for a story?

 

[Coley]

Maybe a fellow sleuther can tract it, but I think this item if found will play a huge part for the Prosecution. A kidnapper would throw items away and then dispose the body. Why? This identifies this baby quickly. KC in a panic (in trying to make this look like a kidnapping) would assume that items she had last with her, would go into the woods (wrong). No jury in the world will buy the theory that someone else did it.

It's in the crime scene photos. It's the same book she was reading in the video.

 

[CPP]

If CA had bothered to give TM something of Caylee's for his dogs to sniff, they would have found her the first time.

ITA, That fact, and giving LE KC's hairbrush instead of Caylee's lead me to believe that, while she may not have participated, CA knew by then what had happened and was deliberately trying to obstruct evidence building. The question for me is, was it a gut feeling or did she have actual knowledge?

 

[Coley]

ITA, That fact, and giving LE KC's hairbrush instead of Kaylees lead me to believe that she, while she may not have participated, CA knew by then what had happened.

That spells out participating to me, regardless if it was after the fact.

MOO

 

[Imajica]

All I have to say is DUH. KC never left the area either.

ETA: The pings told us this months ago so I'm confused why the FBI would even say this or is it just the media looking for a story?

In my opinion, I believe the FBI made the statement to subtly refute the instantaneous spin by the defense that the "Invisible Nanny" who supposedly whisked Caylee out of Orlando and took her to some remote location, was a complete bunch of crap the entire time.

A "reasonable person" would assume that if Caylee never left her local neighborhood at all, then there is only one person who could have killed her. Since they are limited in what they can and cannot say, I believe this was their quiet way of a rebuttal to this ludicrous story.

But yes, "DUH!!" was my first reaction to the story too.

 

[Coley]

In my opinion, I believe the FBI made the statement to subtly refute the instantaneous spin by the defense that the "Invisible Nanny" who supposedly whisked Caylee out of Orlando and took her to some remote location, was a complete bunch of crap the entire time.

A "reasonable person" would assume that if Caylee never left her local neighborhood at all, then there is only one person who could have killed her. Since they are limited in what they can and cannot say, I believe this was their quiet way of a rebuttal to this ludicrous story.

But yes, "DUH!!" was my first reaction to the story too.

You know it's funny that JB stated they were a step ahead of LE (about the remains being identified and him being at the jail) but it seems that we are a step ahead of JB.

Gosh, some people do attend spin class regularly at the local gym in Orlando.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

It's in the crime scene photos. It's the same book she was reading in the video.

And if this is true...then Cindy knew from Day 1 not Day 31. Simple.