maybe this will help. http://www.operationcybertip.org/images/PraiaDaLuzSLX_468x626.jpg
Fencesitters & Not Guilty Post Here
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The way they phrased it at first made it sound like the restaurant was just a stone's throw away. For instance, I know a family who lives in a condo complex with a bbq in the inner courtyard. You can literally see into their house from where they are grilling when the shades are open, and yes, sometimes the mama leaves the kids for 10 minutes to throw burgers on the grill but she can still SEE them playing in the living room while she's making burgers.
I thought it was a similar situation at the beginning, until a map showed me how far away they actually were. Sherri79 provided a great link with that info.
So that led me to thinking, okay, dumb/stupid decision and yes, negligent, but I know parents who make dumb decisions everyday for their children and I'm sure my time will come too! I felt that throwing them in jail would detract from the case as I'd always believed their innocence. Now that they are talking about forensics pointing to the parents I just don't know what to think. By the way CaliKid posted a really thought provoking message on the Theories thread you should check out.
I know that was long winded, but I totally know where you are coming from.
concernedperson
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Calikid's theory is thought provoking and reasoned. The only thing I might add is maybe Maddie was not given a sedative because she was already injured or dead but the twins were given one while the clean up occurred. The blood on the wall, and we heard from MoonGoddess, that blood was on a ceramic tile as well, indicates a more serious altercation than an overdose of a sedative.
Olivia and Columbo,
The Tapas bar was about 100 yards away as the crow flies, almost double that to walk (because of sidewalks, shrubbery, a wall, a gated swimming pool, etc.) The parents repeatedly negated the distance, even at one point saying they were only 20 yards away. They also likened it repeatedly to dining in your garden (back yard) and leaving the children alone in the house. But of course if we were to leave our children alone inside, we would lock the door first. The McCanns didn't even do that.
The Tapas bar was about 100 yards away as the crow flies, almost double that to walk (because of sidewalks, shrubbery, a wall, a gated swimming pool, etc.) The parents repeatedly negated the distance, even at one point saying they were only 20 yards away. They also likened it repeatedly to dining in your garden (back yard) and leaving the children alone in the house. But of course if we were to leave our children alone inside, we would lock the door first. The McCanns didn't even do that.
:blushing:
I know this is the place for parents not guilty or on the fencers, and I don't want to argue. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, so please take this with the :blowkiss: with which it is written. I suppose I am responding because this "doctor" angle has become a "pet peeve" with me.
Yes the McCanns have been trained as doctors. One is a general practioner we are told. As such, it could be assumed:
1. The McCanns are educated
2. The McCanns have experience with childhood accidents
3. The McCanns have seen evidence of child abuse at some point in their careers
4. The McCanns have seen evidence of child neglect at some point in their careers
5. The McCanns have seen unexpected, senseless muggings, stabbings, shootings, etc.
Given that the McCanns must have seen more than one childhood tragedy or senseless act of violence in their experiences as DOCTORS, why the (lots of bad words here) did they leave their children alone, in an unlocked apartment, in a foreign county no less, where the children wouldn't have even been able to understand the words of others? Not just once, but apparently every night they were on holiday? What if the McCanns were mugged on their way back from where ever they went? What if staff had to go in and take the children? What if one of the children disappeared?
Their irresponsible behavior gives no credance to their training as medical professionals NOR does it provide them with any kind of excuse for their behavior. In my opinion, it only make what they did 100 times worse and that is even before we get to the question of what happened to Maddie.
If Maddie would have accidently gotten sick or hurt, the McCanns would NOT have even known at least for 1 hour and 45 minutes (according to the upstairs neighbor) so they wouldn't have been in a position to help Maddie, now would they.
Okay guys - I'll stay out of your thread now.:blushing:
Salem
I know this is the place for parents not guilty or on the fencers, and I don't want to argue. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, so please take this with the :blowkiss: with which it is written. I suppose I am responding because this "doctor" angle has become a "pet peeve" with me.
Yes the McCanns have been trained as doctors. One is a general practioner we are told. As such, it could be assumed:
1. The McCanns are educated
2. The McCanns have experience with childhood accidents
3. The McCanns have seen evidence of child abuse at some point in their careers
4. The McCanns have seen evidence of child neglect at some point in their careers
5. The McCanns have seen unexpected, senseless muggings, stabbings, shootings, etc.
Given that the McCanns must have seen more than one childhood tragedy or senseless act of violence in their experiences as DOCTORS, why the (lots of bad words here) did they leave their children alone, in an unlocked apartment, in a foreign county no less, where the children wouldn't have even been able to understand the words of others? Not just once, but apparently every night they were on holiday? What if the McCanns were mugged on their way back from where ever they went? What if staff had to go in and take the children? What if one of the children disappeared?
Their irresponsible behavior gives no credance to their training as medical professionals NOR does it provide them with any kind of excuse for their behavior. In my opinion, it only make what they did 100 times worse and that is even before we get to the question of what happened to Maddie.
If Maddie would have accidently gotten sick or hurt, the McCanns would NOT have even known at least for 1 hour and 45 minutes (according to the upstairs neighbor) so they wouldn't have been in a position to help Maddie, now would they.
Okay guys - I'll stay out of your thread now.:blushing:
Salem
Thank you so much for posting that picture. oh my goodness. Weren't the McCann's saying it was 100 yards from their room? Sure doesn't look like 100 yards to me.
They almost had me believing it was across the hall from their room!
The way they phrased it at first made it sound like the restaurant was just a stone's throw away. For instance, I know a family who lives in a condo complex with a bbq in the inner courtyard. You can literally see into their house from where they are grilling when the shades are open, and yes, sometimes the mama leaves the kids for 10 minutes to throw burgers on the grill but she can still SEE them playing in the living room while she's making burgers.
I thought it was a similar situation at the beginning, until a map showed me how far away they actually were. Sherri79 provided a great link with that info.
So that led me to thinking, okay, dumb/stupid decision and yes, negligent, but I know parents who make dumb decisions everyday for their children and I'm sure my time will come too! I felt that throwing them in jail would detract from the case as I'd always believed their innocence. Now that they are talking about forensics pointing to the parents I just don't know what to think. By the way CaliKid posted a really thought provoking message on the Theories thread you should check out.
I know that was long winded, but I totally know where you are coming from.
Olivia, thank you again so much!! I'll check out CaliKid's message.
Love_Mama
Rest In Peace
Sherri....... you sweetheart, thank's for putting the photo up again showing the very LONG distance between where "mommie and daddy dearest" were wining and dining and have a wonderful times at this 'tony' jet set resort while their children had been have convientely been stashed away in the Hotel room.....by themselves, door open!
Why did the neighbor in the Hotel suite, room, who heard little Maddie screaming crying NOT call the police?
It absolutely sicken's me to think that these type of human beings exist in a world like ours, so full of honest needy people, human being's just trying to find work to get enough food for their children! Rant over!
I happen to live in a town where there are too many people like this. Their whole lives are all about them! The kids run wild. Drugs are rife, because "mommy and sweet daddy" have the money to give to them for the children to decide how they want to use it!
Here's my thoughts on guilty of accidentally killing the little girl, or outright murdering her. Overdose or WHAT!
-------------------------------
Firstly, I have lost a child. I know exactly what it feels like. I have never once, never ever seen such cold people in my entire life and do not tell me that people grieve differently. Of COURSE they do......but never like this!
'Daddy's Blog is overkill! It sound's like a teenagers 'My Space"
IF they accidentally overdosed the child.......then they should both spend a few years in prison on THAT count plus leaving the children alone should give them a few more years in Prison. I consider "non humans"
Here's what I never heard anyone on the thread's mention!
IF.............they indeed did kill their daughter, then why?????????? WHAT would their MOTIVE be?
Parent's kill their children for a reason. Everyone who murders' someone, almost everyone, has a reason or what LE call's a motive. What would the MOTIVE possibly BE? Please comment!
My thinking here is........Does anyone here KNOW if there was anything medically wrong with Maddie! I ask this because I post occasionally on the "Autistic Children thread. Maddie appear's to me to be a normal child. However, none of us know or have heard anything contrary to this. If anyone find's something, PLEASE POST. This could be a HUGE clue! I'm thinking that perhaps this lovely couple could not accept a child who was "different"!
Guess that's about it. I swear...................I do not KNOW for sure what happened and I don't think anyone here does either. You're sure ALL a bunch of great sleuthers.......and I'm so happy to see so many new people here..............God Bless you ALL! Right now this case is a mess....can't belive anything you hear......and very hard to decipher what LE really is doing.
The photo that dear Sherri is really 'telling'...........
Excuse for all the typo's . I've got 12 teenagers in my living room right now. I LOVE them all............but the noise is a little excessive!
xxxxxxxxxoooooooo
mama
:blowkiss: :blowkiss: :blowkiss:
concernedperson
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First of all, you know. You know what it feels like to lose a child. You know that it isn't about jogging and blogging. It is the pain and hole in your heart that never goes away. The McCanns aren't there and I dare say anyone post that everyone grieves differently. No, we grieve for children not even our own because that is what the human race does.These people are about themselves.
Frankly, themselves are very ugly.
Oh Love Mama,
Thank you SO MUCH for posting that. I have tried very hard to get people to understand how strange the McCanns' "grieving process" looked to me, but having never lost a child, what did I know? They seemed cold and aloof, smirking and smiling on camera and apparently uninterested in Madeleine, but as I've been told time and again people grieve differently. And I thought, not THAT much, but getting people to listen was like :banghead: I am thankful to have your input and appreciate your point of view.
Thank you SO MUCH for posting that. I have tried very hard to get people to understand how strange the McCanns' "grieving process" looked to me, but having never lost a child, what did I know? They seemed cold and aloof, smirking and smiling on camera and apparently uninterested in Madeleine, but as I've been told time and again people grieve differently. And I thought, not THAT much, but getting people to listen was like :banghead: I am thankful to have your input and appreciate your point of view.
There are rumors that Madeleine was autistic or maybe had Asperger's. Also that she might have been afflicted with a mild version of CHARGE syndrome.
BethInAK
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I agree that we don't have enough information to convict anyone in this forum.
However, Madeleines dna would be half her mothers - distinctly different. they should easily be able to tell kate from madeleines dna.
Being an NG is a new experience for me! In this case, I'd say I'm more of a fence sitter, since I have no reason to believe either of the McCanns DIDN'T kill Madeleine. But I also don't see any compelling reason to think that they did.
The Portugese press stories about the wild drunkeness and/or swinging lifestyle of the group at the tapas bar is no more convincing to me than the smear job that Aruban sources do on Natalee Holloway.
It seems like everybody and their brother in the vicinity knew that Madeleine was without any adult supervision in that apartment on that and most nights.
Calpol, the drug Maddie's parents admit to sometimes giving her and her siblings is NOT a sedative. (from link)
Flying around the world to talk about missing children and visiting the Pope don't really fall under the catagory of "jetsetting."
The DNA evidence is degraded and not a conclusive match for Madeleine; the forensic collection methods were outrageously flawed.
Disposing of Madeleine's body in a strage country and under such intense scrutiny would be nigh on impossible.
The Portugese police are desperate. There's a huge need for a quick convenient, and non-Portugese suspect.
I'm just not ready to convict these parents yet.
http://http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2414830.ece
The Portugese press stories about the wild drunkeness and/or swinging lifestyle of the group at the tapas bar is no more convincing to me than the smear job that Aruban sources do on Natalee Holloway.
It seems like everybody and their brother in the vicinity knew that Madeleine was without any adult supervision in that apartment on that and most nights.
Calpol, the drug Maddie's parents admit to sometimes giving her and her siblings is NOT a sedative. (from link)
Flying around the world to talk about missing children and visiting the Pope don't really fall under the catagory of "jetsetting."
The DNA evidence is degraded and not a conclusive match for Madeleine; the forensic collection methods were outrageously flawed.
Disposing of Madeleine's body in a strage country and under such intense scrutiny would be nigh on impossible.
The Portugese police are desperate. There's a huge need for a quick convenient, and non-Portugese suspect.
I'm just not ready to convict these parents yet.
http://http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2414830.ece
packerdog
Well-Known Member
I agree with ya.
Brefie
New Member
I really think that if Madeleine was autistic it would be old news by now. I really believe that the family would be screaming about it. Aren't medications involved? Certain special needs? I really believe that fact would have been included in the pleas for her return. Wouldn't an autistic child be extremely panicked - more so than a non-autistic child?
Brefie
New Member
I am back on the fence today, leaning towards not guilty. I am admittedly swayed by various talk shows pointing out that nothing has been revealed that truly points the finger.
I was swayed initially just by the arguido status, but Robert Murat? The full on media campaign that started immediately makes it almost impossible to hide a body and I am starting to believe that if she died in the apartment as it is rumored the police believe, then I cannot imagine it would be too hard to build a case against the parents because it would have been that obvious. The fact that they are doctors does not make me believe they would have covered it up this well to the point they have not been arrested.
I was swayed initially just by the arguido status, but Robert Murat? The full on media campaign that started immediately makes it almost impossible to hide a body and I am starting to believe that if she died in the apartment as it is rumored the police believe, then I cannot imagine it would be too hard to build a case against the parents because it would have been that obvious. The fact that they are doctors does not make me believe they would have covered it up this well to the point they have not been arrested.
I don't think they did it. Too hard to disappear the body in a foreign country. Too hard to act normal at dinner. Afterward, they would want to let the attention die, and go back to their old lives--not stay in Portugal, start a reward / search fund, and draw international attention.
april4sky
It is not who is right, but what is right, that is
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Bless you for your loss. Of course you have an insight many do not.
However, most people who have lost a child do not have to grieve in such a public fashion, followed by cameras and crews of newspersons day after day, week after week. We have no way of knowing their private grieving process...only their public.
I will not judge them for that.
Gerry's voice broke in his last statement about Madeleine today (at the airport returning to the UK) and I felt his frustration and pain. My heart goes out to them.
Brefie
New Member
They have made lots of comments about how they are devastated. To me they look like broken people. That's not to say they were not extremely negligent.
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