Brefie
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Mine is like.....WTF is a gweedo??
Fencesitters & Not Guilty Post Here
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Australia Australia - Marion Barter - Missing After Trip to UK - June 1997 #23
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Haha that took me a minute to get but I got it thanks to CaliKid
Thats what she says Cali but gweedo is how her hubby says it.
hahaha thanks for the laughs Guys!~
Haha that took me a minute to get but I got it thanks to CaliKid
Thats what she says Cali but gweedo is how her hubby says it.
hahaha thanks for the laughs Guys!~
I've wracked my brain to figure out why I'm not convinced the McCann's are guilty while I am convinced that other suspects are guilty in other cases such as J2K in Natalee Holloway's disappearance and the Ramseys in JonBenet's death. In all three cases I think the suspects have acted hinkey and suspicious. In all three cases, the suspects were the last people known to be with the victim. But in this case, there are just not enough additional incriminating facts that I am now aware of to push me over that line. There's no fakey ransom note with information only known to the suspects. There's no murder weapon that belonged to the suspects. The McCanns didn't say they left Madeleine with a baby sitter and then change the story to they left her in the apartment and then to somewhere else. They aren't saying "We'll tell you the whole truth when we're ready." The forensic evidence could change my mind, but the news stories I've read have been contradictory and, in some cases, unbelievable, so far. And as far as them acting guilty, well they are for sure guilty of serious child neglect, and I think they realize that everyone can see that. But murder? I just need a little more.
That is an interesting thought Julessleuther.I don't think so.But it is some food for thought.Another angle to at least look at.
Steadfast,
I agree with everything you said. I felt the Ramsey's were guilty of their child's murder from day one. Same with S. Peterson and like you, I felt the KB2 were the cause of Natalie Holloway's disappearance. This is a case that honestly has me baffled.
Straitfan
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I for one agree with you, everyone is entitled to their own opinon on any particular case. I used to post way back in 2002 but now seems if one does not agree with the more "heavy" posters they are attacked for their opinion or ignored. (Seems similiar to a gang mentality) I am all for guilty when guilty, have my own long list of "guilty" thoughts but this case (as well as Holloway) there is nothing solid, all hearsay, media jargon.. Most of the news shows aren't buying it as they normally do when they feel it is going to be a "guilty" situation.
Also, speaking of one's composure or lack there of, some individuals do not display their grieve publicly for other's to talk about.. Jennifer Keese's parents are a good example, they aren't guilty but they obivously grieve in their own private, loving environment.. So, maybe if the McCann's are not guilty, that may be their choice of the grieving process.
Now for the prior comments regarding Mr Walsh and Mr Smart, yes, their opinion but if someone can point to me a case where they just "randomly threw their thoughts" out there and did not stick by their opnions, please feel free to direct me there. I respect them (as they don't just "buy" anything much more than a foreign country that I myself have no clue as to their laws, rules, etc.
So, I guess it's obivous, until there is more than "hearsay" I'm sitting on the fence.
Also, speaking of one's composure or lack there of, some individuals do not display their grieve publicly for other's to talk about.. Jennifer Keese's parents are a good example, they aren't guilty but they obivously grieve in their own private, loving environment.. So, maybe if the McCann's are not guilty, that may be their choice of the grieving process.
Now for the prior comments regarding Mr Walsh and Mr Smart, yes, their opinion but if someone can point to me a case where they just "randomly threw their thoughts" out there and did not stick by their opnions, please feel free to direct me there. I respect them (as they don't just "buy" anything much more than a foreign country that I myself have no clue as to their laws, rules, etc.
So, I guess it's obivous, until there is more than "hearsay" I'm sitting on the fence.
AfterMidnight
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gweedo lives in Philadelphia - no joke!
Julessleuther
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Ok--doesn't anyone think one hour would not be enough time to kill her, dispose of her body, get dressed and ready for the Tapas bar, and make the trek to the Tapas bar? Also, don't you think at least one of both of the parents would have arrived late and disheveled and/or extremely emotional? Don't you think someone in their group would have noticed something? I am sorry, I do not buy the Tapas 9 conspiracy theory. These people were Dr's. I do not care how close they were, someone in this group would have spilled their guts by now and told what happened, or at the very least, conveyed to LE that the parents mental condition at dinner was bizarre. There is no way they did this...
My intentions are not to shove my opinion down anyone's throat. But I would like to list what bugs me about the parents.
1. Leaving the children alone is an obvious first.
Why did the McCanns take their children to Portugal in the first place if all they were going to do was stick them in childcare all day and go out drinking by themselves at night? Why not use a nanny or a relative to care for the kids back in the UK so they could have some time for themselves if that's what they wanted? Or was going to Portugal as a family like the rest of their buddies (and not looking selfish) more important?
They went out with friends every night. But "the parents say that they were justified in doing so because they felt that they ‘also needed a holiday’".
http://functionpix.com/index.php/ar...acker_detectives_in_too_late_say_police/1543/
Mrs. Fenn said one of the children cried for 75 minutes two nights before Madeleine disappeared, and the staff warned the McCanns about leaving the children alone. They did it again anyway, and we all have heard the results- Maddie is gone.
2. Why were the McCanns so positive she'd been kidnapped to the point of insisting it was the only reality? Madeleine had already wandered away from the apartment and hid on one occasion. How could the McCanns be so sure she hadn't wandered away again, especially since it appears the friends weren't doing such a great job of checking the kids. And there are discrepancies about the Cuddle Cat issue from Kate's own mouth.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1673666&postcount=78
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1673727&postcount=79
3. I will agree that the distance between the Tapas bar and who checked the children when could as easily be a butt-saving excuse for their leaving-the-kids-alone neglect, so I won't use it here. Let's just say they made excuses for their behavior and kept changing the story over and over.
But we've heard how Jane Tanner claims she saw someone walking away from the apartment that night carrying something in a blanket. Weeks later (after Murat was named an arguido) she modified her statement into "Murat was carrying Madeleine". And we have another eyewitness- Jeremy Wilkins who was chatting up Gerry McCann at the same time JT claims she saw the man- who not only didn't see the stranger, but didn't see JT either. Why did the parents' friends make stuff up and change their stories to fit the subject? Why were the McCanns so desperate to indict someone who appears to have had no part in her disappearance?
4. For two people who were positive that their daughter had been kidnapped, why has the information about Madeleine been so vague? The McCanns insist that she was taken out of the country to various places- Morocco, the Netherlands, etc. So why were the missing Maddie posters only in two languages- English and Portuguese? Why not Dutch or Arabic? Why did the website not contain any physical description of her- hair color, height, weight? Why were logical suggestions by random strangers who wanted to help find Madeleine (and posted to the website e-mail) denigrated by the McCanns and their family? Why did the McCanns ignore help that was offered for free to help look for her?
http://ionglobaltrends.blogspot.com/2007/08/once-twice-three-times-team-mccann.html
5. People have said stuff like, the police told the McCanns not to cry because it's what the kidnapper wants to see, and that's why they appear so cold and detached. IMO, true emotions aren't something you can turn off and on. If you're desperately worried that your tiny toddler daughter might be in the hands of a pedophile who is raping her or may have killed her, you are not going to be able to hide that fear. You will not be relaxed, smiling and waving at photo ops two weeks later. You will not be going on shopping sprees and worrying about jogging, haircuts and suntans. You will either completely fall apart or look as if you're going to.
And as far as having to keep a stiff upper lip for your remaining two children, it's BS. With the exception of a very rare day, the McCanns had a steady flow of family members coming and going into Portugal. Sean and Amelie spent almost every day at the resort creche.
And why does Gerry's blog talk so little about Madeleine herself? Why in almost every interview the McCanns have done, when given an opportunity to say something directly to their daughter, does Kate say, "Madeleine knows we love her"? And not in a warm, caring voice either.
She isn't talking to her directly. She isn't saying, "Honey, we love you and are looking for you. We will find and save you." For all they know, if Madeleine was really kidnapped she was probably told her parents don't want her. So couldn't the McCanns try to counteract that claim through a direct appeal of their own in hopes she'd see it? I'll tell you, if I was an abducted child and saw my parents respond like Kate did, I wouldn't feel loved or wanted.
6. I'm no expert on body language, but the video interviews of the parents are sickening to watch. They say that people who lie can't look directly into your face- they gaze around, etc. That's exactly what the McCanns do in their interviews. When asked difficult questions, they ignore them or change the subject. It's all about them and trying to convince the world they did nothing wrong, not finding their daughter.
1. Leaving the children alone is an obvious first.
Why did the McCanns take their children to Portugal in the first place if all they were going to do was stick them in childcare all day and go out drinking by themselves at night? Why not use a nanny or a relative to care for the kids back in the UK so they could have some time for themselves if that's what they wanted? Or was going to Portugal as a family like the rest of their buddies (and not looking selfish) more important?
They went out with friends every night. But "the parents say that they were justified in doing so because they felt that they ‘also needed a holiday’".
http://functionpix.com/index.php/ar...acker_detectives_in_too_late_say_police/1543/
Mrs. Fenn said one of the children cried for 75 minutes two nights before Madeleine disappeared, and the staff warned the McCanns about leaving the children alone. They did it again anyway, and we all have heard the results- Maddie is gone.
2. Why were the McCanns so positive she'd been kidnapped to the point of insisting it was the only reality? Madeleine had already wandered away from the apartment and hid on one occasion. How could the McCanns be so sure she hadn't wandered away again, especially since it appears the friends weren't doing such a great job of checking the kids. And there are discrepancies about the Cuddle Cat issue from Kate's own mouth.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1673666&postcount=78
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1673727&postcount=79
3. I will agree that the distance between the Tapas bar and who checked the children when could as easily be a butt-saving excuse for their leaving-the-kids-alone neglect, so I won't use it here. Let's just say they made excuses for their behavior and kept changing the story over and over.
But we've heard how Jane Tanner claims she saw someone walking away from the apartment that night carrying something in a blanket. Weeks later (after Murat was named an arguido) she modified her statement into "Murat was carrying Madeleine". And we have another eyewitness- Jeremy Wilkins who was chatting up Gerry McCann at the same time JT claims she saw the man- who not only didn't see the stranger, but didn't see JT either. Why did the parents' friends make stuff up and change their stories to fit the subject? Why were the McCanns so desperate to indict someone who appears to have had no part in her disappearance?
4. For two people who were positive that their daughter had been kidnapped, why has the information about Madeleine been so vague? The McCanns insist that she was taken out of the country to various places- Morocco, the Netherlands, etc. So why were the missing Maddie posters only in two languages- English and Portuguese? Why not Dutch or Arabic? Why did the website not contain any physical description of her- hair color, height, weight? Why were logical suggestions by random strangers who wanted to help find Madeleine (and posted to the website e-mail) denigrated by the McCanns and their family? Why did the McCanns ignore help that was offered for free to help look for her?
http://ionglobaltrends.blogspot.com/2007/08/once-twice-three-times-team-mccann.html
5. People have said stuff like, the police told the McCanns not to cry because it's what the kidnapper wants to see, and that's why they appear so cold and detached. IMO, true emotions aren't something you can turn off and on. If you're desperately worried that your tiny toddler daughter might be in the hands of a pedophile who is raping her or may have killed her, you are not going to be able to hide that fear. You will not be relaxed, smiling and waving at photo ops two weeks later. You will not be going on shopping sprees and worrying about jogging, haircuts and suntans. You will either completely fall apart or look as if you're going to.
And as far as having to keep a stiff upper lip for your remaining two children, it's BS. With the exception of a very rare day, the McCanns had a steady flow of family members coming and going into Portugal. Sean and Amelie spent almost every day at the resort creche.
And why does Gerry's blog talk so little about Madeleine herself? Why in almost every interview the McCanns have done, when given an opportunity to say something directly to their daughter, does Kate say, "Madeleine knows we love her"? And not in a warm, caring voice either.
She isn't talking to her directly. She isn't saying, "Honey, we love you and are looking for you. We will find and save you." For all they know, if Madeleine was really kidnapped she was probably told her parents don't want her. So couldn't the McCanns try to counteract that claim through a direct appeal of their own in hopes she'd see it? I'll tell you, if I was an abducted child and saw my parents respond like Kate did, I wouldn't feel loved or wanted.
6. I'm no expert on body language, but the video interviews of the parents are sickening to watch. They say that people who lie can't look directly into your face- they gaze around, etc. That's exactly what the McCanns do in their interviews. When asked difficult questions, they ignore them or change the subject. It's all about them and trying to convince the world they did nothing wrong, not finding their daughter.
Your point #6 is what is swaying me towards them being guilty Calikid....I saw them last night doing an interview and they couldnt look at the camera and dad also had to read from a piece of paper to tell the world how much he loved his daughter .
Regardless of what I think here is a piece from Lindy Chamberlain....the dingoes got my baby lady......she is talking about how she was wrongly convicted of killing her baby and comparing her own case to the McCanns.
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=295420
.Regardless of what I think here is a piece from Lindy Chamberlain....the dingoes got my baby lady......she is talking about how she was wrongly convicted of killing her baby and comparing her own case to the McCanns.
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=295420
Your point #6 is what is swaying me towards them being guilty Calikid....I saw them last night doing an interview and they couldnt look at the camera and dad also had to read from a piece of paper to tell the world how much he loved his daughter
Regardless of what I think here is a piece from Lindy Chamberlain....the dingoes got my baby lady......she is talking about how she was wrongly convicted of killing her baby and comparing her own case to the McCanns.
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=295420
Well, there are a few comparisons to be made- both couples had three children and both were on holidays when their child disappeared and both are getting persecuted by the press.
What Lindy is saying is that if the public and the police dont get any answers, they start making them up- sounds a bit like this forum doesn't it?
No end of rumours around here, with no solid facts.
lizziedripping
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Cali - What I don't understand is, if one of the children cried for 75 minutes two nights before Madeleine disappeared, then Kate & Gerry must not have been checking on the kids that night - well at least not in that 75 minutes anyway.
I am beginning to believe that the kids were in fact sedated for the two nights after this and that's why the twins didn't wake, with all the commotion of Madeleine missing you would think they wouldn't sleep through it all.
Makes me wonder if the kids were checked on at ANY time, including the night Madeleine disappeared.
Texana
Overreaching
Calikid, great summary. You got all the points and then some!
Of course we will hear from people who were suspected of but did not actually kill or harm their children.
We can't hear from the ones who actually did, because they don't have access to the Internet and the media, but there are hundreds if not thousands of them out there as well.
Kate and Gerry will have access to the best defense lawyers money can buy, and I wish them well in their defense.
Of course we will hear from people who were suspected of but did not actually kill or harm their children.
We can't hear from the ones who actually did, because they don't have access to the Internet and the media, but there are hundreds if not thousands of them out there as well.
Kate and Gerry will have access to the best defense lawyers money can buy, and I wish them well in their defense.
I think a lot of posters here have gone out of their way to supply us with the latest updates and news headlines which have produced solid facts.
Theories and rumours are also being discussed here,after all it is a forum for sleuthing and hashing out clues...thought you realised that:waitasec:
Im sorry that you dont appreciate the effort some posters are putting in for the benefit of Maddie.
poco
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This is a tough case, we aren't getting too many facts and we are getting a lot of rumors (or maybe they aren't rumors). Who knows what the PJ just throws out there as bait. I love the sleuthing part though - everyone getting together and brainstorming.
I wish we knew more of the concrete evidence thus far. I would love to read that 4000 page document. I'm sure the judge isn't looking forward to it though - teez!
Yes would love to read that 4000 page document also.I am having trouble visualizing that.Also to have that much stuff to be able to make it 4000 pages is mind blowing.I am wondering if it has been exaggerated?
This document is suppose to have e-mail and phone transcripts in it right?
poco
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I sure hope so
I am just having a hard time visualizing a 4000 page document Phone transcripts and e-mails in there also help me with that.poco,do you think the PJ have been gathering stuff on the McCanns since the start and that is why its 4000 pages or did the PJ start gathering a month ago when the British police came more involved and refocused the case?
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