FL- 12 Story Condo Partial Building Collapse, many still unaccounted for, Miami, 24 June 2021

[sds71]

Two and a half years before her building collapsed into a pile of rubble, Champlain Towers South resident Mara Chouela dashed off the latest in a string of angry complaints about the development project next door.

"We are concerned that the construction next to Surfside is too close," Chouela, a board member of the condo association, wrote in a January 2019 email to a building official in her Florida town. Workers were "digging too close to our property and we have concerns regarding the structure of our building," she wrote, attaching photos of construction equipment directly across from her building's property wall.
Just 28 minutes later, the official, Rosendo Prieto, responded that "there is nothing for me to check." The reason why: The offending development, an ultra-luxury tower known as Eighty Seven Park, was directly across the border separating the town of Surfside from the city of Miami Beach, which runs between the two buildings...

There's no evidence that the construction of Eighty Seven Park, which took place between 2016 and 2019, contributed to the collapse.
"We are confident that the construction of 87 Park did not cause or contribute to the collapse that took place in Surfside," the development group behind Eighty Seven Park said in a statement to CNN Tuesday.
But the 18-story tower would not have been allowed to be built across the border in Surfside, where buildings are subject to a 12-story height limit (although Champlain Towers itself received an exemption in the 1980s to add nine extra feet, The Wall Street Journal reported Monday).

Peter Dyga, the president and CEO of Associated Builders and Contractors, said that the likelihood of the Eighty Seven Park construction "being a significant cause" in the Surfside collapse "is slim, but no lead or idea should be excluded."
"There's probably going to be multiple things in the end that have contributed in some way or another," he said. "Still, buildings are built next to buildings all the time, and it doesn't mean that they come down."
He said minor shaking would not be unusual.

Florida condo was 'shaking all the time' during luxury tower construction next door, according to residents - CNN

 

[CrimeAway]

The HOA fee for this building was $851 a month. And that was BEFORE the special assessment! The special assessment to cover the $15 million in necessary repairs was going to add $948 a month FOR 15 YEARS!

Source: a survivor is being interviewed on CNN and just gave Don Lemon those numbers.

Wow!!!

 

[KALI]

Whew and Oh boy, am I ever glad I don't live in a high-rise condo on a beach.
Absolutely no disrespect to those that do, or, the dead and or missing from this tragedy.
I cannot imagine how many tens of thousands of high-rise dwellers are seriously worried and frightened.
So many of these high-rises on or near the beach have been built 40 years ago.
I know that for me, I would re-examine every Crack in my building if it's built near the beach in Florida.
I am expecting these Condo owners to demand answers from their homeowner associations.
The amount of money to retrofit many of these properties will be astounding.
There are a lot of retirees in Florida.
Personally, I would be God smacked at getting a $100,000. Bill to make my home safe.
Our family just could not pay for it.
I have many tears for the dead and the missing and all of their loved ones.
This entire situation is an American tragedy. Moo

 

[bears10]

Two and a half years before her building collapsed into a pile of rubble, Champlain Towers South resident Mara Chouela dashed off the latest in a string of angry complaints about the development project next door.

"We are concerned that the construction next to Surfside is too close," Chouela, a board member of the condo association, wrote in a January 2019 email to a building official in her Florida town. Workers were "digging too close to our property and we have concerns regarding the structure of our building," she wrote, attaching photos of construction equipment directly across from her building's property wall.
Just 28 minutes later, the official, Rosendo Prieto, responded that "there is nothing for me to check." The reason why: The offending development, an ultra-luxury tower known as Eighty Seven Park, was directly across the border separating the town of Surfside from the city of Miami Beach, which runs between the two buildings...

There's no evidence that the construction of Eighty Seven Park, which took place between 2016 and 2019, contributed to the collapse.
"We are confident that the construction of 87 Park did not cause or contribute to the collapse that took place in Surfside," the development group behind Eighty Seven Park said in a statement to CNN Tuesday.
But the 18-story tower would not have been allowed to be built across the border in Surfside, where buildings are subject to a 12-story height limit (although Champlain Towers itself received an exemption in the 1980s to add nine extra feet, The Wall Street Journal reported Monday).

Peter Dyga, the president and CEO of Associated Builders and Contractors, said that the likelihood of the Eighty Seven Park construction "being a significant cause" in the Surfside collapse "is slim, but no lead or idea should be excluded."
"There's probably going to be multiple things in the end that have contributed in some way or another," he said. "Still, buildings are built next to buildings all the time, and it doesn't mean that they come down."
He said minor shaking would not be unusual.

Florida condo was 'shaking all the time' during luxury tower construction next door, according to residents - CNN

I wish the board got as worked up about their building’s structural issues as they did about the building next door getting styrofoam in their pool and sand on the sidewalks.

I also found the emails from MC to the building inspector odd. It was like she was complaining to him the way siblings complain about each other to their mom. I haven’t seen any of his responses to her, so I don’t know if he even did respond, but the dynamic seems weird. Jmo

 

[al66pine]

Who Sold? Why?

....It appears that the condo assn stated just April 9th the fees in the millions that were going to be assessed. Which members of the condo assn saw/knew of what was coming before the April 9th letter... and knew what was coming in the 3 years before to sell?

@dixiegirl1035 sbm bbm Thx for your post.
{{ETA: Just jumping off your post, not directing an argument to or w you.}}
Seems to suggest some condo owners had special knowledge about imminent special assessment announcement for these extensive repairs and sold their individual condo units beforehand. That's possible, even likely that some may have.

However some owners who sold their units in 2018-2021 may have done so for reasons other than upcoming expensive repairs. Sometimes ppl sell because of job transfers or career changes; changes in family size (marriage, divorce, more kids, elder parents moving in, kids launching from the nest, etc. so changes in amt of space needed); can't stand FL heat & humidity another minute, etc.
{{ ETA: Forgot to mention, some condo sales may have been prompted by the owner's death. Not all sales would be for nefarious reasons, maybe none was.}}
my2ct.

 

[MoeInVA]

I'm wondering such too. As was said in one presser, they will get to the bottom and change laws/legislation *cough cough cough*.

It appears that the condo assn stated just April 9th the fees in the millions that were going to be assessed.

Which members of the condo assn saw/knew of what was coming before the April 9th letter.. and knew what was coming in the 3 years before to sell?

msm stated that the 2018 report was posted on the condo association website. It was posted. It may be the case that some owners were more informed than others but none thought the building would collapse. The President and Vice President and ex treasurer of the condo board were all in the building. Maybe more. The President escaped with the clothes on her back. The VP and her extended family (lots of them) are unaccounted for or dead. The long time former treasurer and her husband are unaccounted for.

Ease up on the volunteer condo board. they are victims. JMO.

 

[bears10]

Who Sold? Why?
@dixiegirl1035 sbm bbm Thx for your post. Seems to suggest some condo owners had special knowledge about imminent special assessment announcement for these extensive repairs and sold their individual condo units beforehand. That's possible, even likely that some may have.

However some owners who sold their units in 2018-2021 may have done so for reasons other than upcoming expensive repairs. Sometimes ppl sell because of job transfers or career changes; changes in family size (marriage, divorce, more kids, elder parents moving in, kids launching from the nest, etc. so changes in amt of space needed); can't stand FL heat & humidity another minute, etc.
my2ct.

I think Dixie was referring to the members of the board who sold their units starting in 2018, after they were privy to the info contained in the engineers reports.

 

[bears10]

msm stated that the 2018 report was posted on the condo association website. It was posted. It may be the case that some owners were more informed than others but none thought the building would collapse. The President and Vice President and ex treasurer of the condo board were all in the building. Maybe more. The President escaped with the clothes on her back. The VP and her extended family (lots of them) are unaccounted for or dead. The long time former treasurer and her husband are unaccounted for.

Ease up on the volunteer condo board. they are victims. JMO.

you can look on Sunbiz and see the previous years board members. They are not necessarily the same as the ones today. You can compare names to the real estate transactions on the Miami dade website and see if maybe some previous board members moved since 2018 (quite a few have) Jmo

eta - the current president seemed like she meant business though. I wish she had been in charge much sooner.

 

[CrimeAway]

News article about the condo association.

 

[MoeInVA]

you can look on Sunbiz and see the previous years board members. They are not necessarily the same as the ones today. You can compare names to the real estate transactions on the Miami dade website and see if maybe some previous board members moved since 2018 (quite a few have) Jmo

eta - the current president seemed like she meant business though. I wish she had been in charge much sooner.

First filing I saw was 2015. Lots of people I recognized from the missing and unaccounted for list on there. IMO.

 

[bears10]

First filing I saw was 2015. Lots of people I recognized from the missing and unaccounted for list on there. IMO.

they file every year. There are filings up to 2021. Including 3 filings (two amended reports) in 2019. Quite a few people listed in the 2018-2020 filing documents have sold their units.

eta- the first filing was 1995

eta 2- also compare the recently sold units on Zillow to the property records, the sales are still too new to be in the system so even though the sale is underway, the govt site doesn’t reflect the new owners

 

[al66pine]

I think Dixie was referring to the members of the board who sold their units starting in 2018, after they were privy to the info contained in the engineers reports.

@bears10 Thanks for your post. Good point. I was only speaking about gen. reasons for selling & moving from any kind of home, whether condo, single fam, etc. I had not seen info about sales specifically by any condo bd members after engr report. Do we know if there were any? When? Sorry if I missed this info. TiA.

 

[bears10]

@bears10 Thanks for your post. Good point. I was only speaking about gen. reasons for selling & moving from any kind of home, whether condo, single fam, etc. I had not seen info about sales specifically by any condo bd members after engr report. Do we know if there were any? When? Sorry if I missed this info. TiA.

no, it was research I did myself, I didn’t see anything posted in MSM as far as I recall

 

[PayrollNerd]

It has occurred to me at times that those that want to buy a residence of any type, should be required by their county to take a class on due diligence. People would be educated not only on the buying process at a general level, but aware of county/city specific ordinances. Yes, a realtor is a great asset but even when they offer advice and try to steer buyers in the right direction, do the buyers really grasp the why?

In 2016 I found 5 acres here in SWFL to build a small cottage. I had already read the public records on the land. I walked the property 3-4 times, spoke to the neighbors, got bids on a well, bringing in electric, having a driveway installed over the canal, etc. Then, I found a realtor and she helped me submit a bid. It was accepted and I started my "due diligence" in earnest.

I called the county and asked lots of questions about the right of way. Unbeknownst to the seller who purchased the property in the mid 1990's, the right of way access had changed in 1997. Instead of using the driveway's deeded easement, the county had updated the law to require an actual real county road be put in on the other side of the property. No other property owner would need this road the entire cost fell to whomever bought the 5 acres. The reason was so that a firetruck could drive in, turn around and drive back out.

I explained this to my realtor, copied her on 3 bids for the road and asked her to drop my offer price. The owner flipped out and swore I was lying. So he took the next day off work, trotted down to the county and asked the same questions to everybody he ran into. Then he got to the right guy who explained to him what the truth was and that no, I was not lying, the law had changed. It was his responsibility to know the law for his property.

I pulled my offer because the owner refused to budge. They felt they could sell it at the asking price. But they didn't and it was years later before it sold. I believe a connecting property owner bought it and has no plans to build. They'll likely have it re-plotted as part of their property. It was lovely and fabulous trees and a huge 12' deep pond on it. Old natural Florida.

If I had moved forward without doing my due diligence, I would have never been able to build because all my budget would have gone to property prep. I had to put 30% down on $80,000 for the 5 acres, $25-$30,000 county road, $8,000 well, etc. I got my $5,000 deposit back. Do your due diligence!

 

[margarita25]

“No one has been pulled alive from the rubble since last Thursday, but rescuers are still calling this a rescue mission, not a recovery mission.”

When do they move to a recovery mission? Depends on the “probabilities”, not the “possibilities”.

—

See huge rock at :30 being removed

 

[cujenn81]

The HOA fee for this building was $851 a month. And that was BEFORE the special assessment! The special assessment to cover the $15 million in necessary repairs was going to add $948 a month FOR 15 YEARS!

Source: a survivor is being interviewed on CNN and just gave Don Lemon those numbers.

OUCH!

I thought my HOA fees were steep, but they are nowhere close to that amount. Our fees are “only” $450 per month + a $1500 quarterly assessment. On the other hand, we only have 30 units spread out amongst three, 3-story buildings (my building, specifically, only has two condos on each floor).

Living a block from the unpredictable sea in South Carolina is (admittedly) quite a bit different than living in an oceanfront high rise in the greater Miami metropolitan area. Although, the units in my three-story building don’t fetch anything close to the going rate as the condos at Champlain Towers. Or even a third of that amount, really.

Two of our three buildings share an elevator (mine is the odd man out, unfortunately) and we have an 8-foot pool — which I’ve been told is a rare gem to find out in the wild nowadays due to liabilities and whatnot. The maintenance costs for those two hot commodities (the 8-foot pool and single elevator) eats up a large portion of our HOA expense account. The rest of it pays for insurance, whatever we pay a property management company to collect our HOA fees, and the landscaping of approximately three inches of grass.

We don’t have a gym, spa, pool house, BBQ/grilling area, valet services, security, doormen, lobby employees, a party room, parking garage, or any of that other stuff.

 

[SouthAussie]

A comforting photo of the therapy dogs that were brought in ...




Scenes From the Florida Condo Collapse

 

[indicolite22]

did I read this correctly that the son lives in the twin building to this one, Champlain towers east!? yikes!!

Champlain Towers East was built in 1994, IIRC. The true twin is Champlain Towers North, built in 1981, two buildings to the north of the one that collapsed.

 

[GatorFL]

Someone asked about insurance. The condominium association should have a policy to cover the outside walls, common areas, and liability (typically starts at $1 million in coverage). Each unit owner will have coverage for the inside walls and liability (typically starts at $100,000). Renters should have their own policy to cover their belongings and also have liability coverage (starting at $100,000; this may or may not be required).

The condo policy should pay out, but the insurance company could try to fight it based on the lack of maintenance upkeep. If they only have $1M, that won’t go far between all the families. I’ve seen $5M being thrown around so that’s probably the policy limit. They pretty much have to sue to try to touch the insurance money, so I don’t think it’s premature for them to be filing lawsuits already.

Since the HOA members are also being named in the lawsuit, there could be more money to be had from their policies, especially if they have an umbrella policy, which usually starts at $1m.


This is an insurance company’s worst nightmare. I’m not sure which ones will pay and which ones won’t.

Every insurance company who has a current policy on this building is paying policy limits. The building policy should be replacement value of the building, it has to be a lot more than $5 million.

 

[GatorFL]

The HOA fee for this building was $851 a month. And that was BEFORE the special assessment! The special assessment to cover the $15 million in necessary repairs was going to add $948 a month FOR 15 YEARS!

Source: a survivor is being interviewed on CNN and just gave Don Lemon those numbers.

Those numbers are not unusual for a beachfront condo in South Florida.