FL- 12 Story Condo Partial Building Collapse, many still unaccounted for, Miami, 24 June 2021

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
I've seen a few people ask, why does the video we've seen only begin at the big collapse? I'd like to see the minutes before it, as there were obviously warning signs for a few minutes - the knocking sounds, cracks, the deck going.

Prob because it was 1AM and whoever didn't sleep through it was probably freaking out/confused. People may have provided LE with footage that hasn't been shared with the public.

They have to get documented to MSM for Websleuths to allow ( unless in private messages) MOO. There are quite a few that are online and real MOO but do not have MSM link.

There have been a few which have hit MSM, such as the debris coming down from a unit that was seen remotely and shared with MSM.
 
I would love to see that too. I would like to know if those lights on the front of the top floors of the center section of the building were constant prior to the collapse or if they flashed just before the collapse. That video came from a security camera from another building that the news stations got copies of. Maybe the camera only recorded when there was movement, or maybe the news stations edited it down.

I've seen a few people ask, why does the video we've seen only begin at the big collapse? I'd like to see the minutes before it, as there were obviously warning signs for a few minutes - the knocking sounds, cracks, the deck going.
 
I'm waiting for those reports, too. I want to hear from more people from the building to the north on 88th st. That place was light up like a baseball stadium. I want to know why and when the lights started - before or after the collapse.

Whoa. Good catch on that first photo as I had not noticed as to those pilings still standing and punched through. (reposting your photo below)

At this time, there are some on scene personal videos/testimonials/interviews that night that were done.. waiting to discuss on the main thread/public thread here.... waiting here at WS for them to hit MSM. Sitting on hands................ sitting on hands... as will take time to hit MSM.

1a269f36-4d6c-4f77-8eb9-144c8a49b153-jpeg.302932
 
I would love to see that too. I would like to know if those lights on the front of the top floors of the center section of the building were constant prior to the collapse or if they flashed just before the collapse. That video came from a security camera from another building that the news stations got copies of. Maybe the camera only recorded when there was movement, or maybe the news stations edited it down.

Yes, it is very disturbing indeed. The viral video shows 4 balconies/inside areas lit up at the beginning of the video. Unfortunately for us who want to view... we don't have the prior 30-120 seconds of this viral video, which perhaps is from another angle that this building next door?. (Perhaps will hit MSM soon so we can discuss?) This video also shows 2 unit on the right with lights coming on...

We shall see later. Those who have loved ones in that middle unit, and the ones to the right... they know by now that the lights are from their loved ones units are easy to count the floors down, and from left to right.
 
I'm waiting for those reports, too. I want to hear from more people from the building to the north on 88th st. That place was light up like a baseball stadium. I want to know why and when the lights started - before or after the collapse.

@moonlessnight Are you talking about the big flashes to the left as the buildings came down?..., upper left area as the buildings came down? That appeared rooftop/ other side of rooftop on the building still standing?
 
Last edited:
msm stated that the 2018 report was posted on the condo association website. It was posted. It may be the case that some owners were more informed than others but none thought the building would collapse. The President and Vice President and ex treasurer of the condo board were all in the building. Maybe more. The President escaped with the clothes on her back. The VP and her extended family (lots of them) are unaccounted for or dead. The long time former treasurer and her husband are unaccounted for.

Ease up on the volunteer condo board. they are victims. JMO.

I think the problem is the concept of a condo association, not the individual board members here. In order to make the best decisions, every owner (or at least 2/3+ of them) needs to take a long term view of their condo as an investment. With how frequently people buy and sell homes, many condo owners may rather sell than agree to costly repairs if they only have a 2-5 year ownership horizon. So you are depending on people who may want to move in a year to take on significant costs for the benefit of the building as a whole.

It is crazy to think about that if I am a condo owner, with significant money invested in my unit, the soundness of the building (and protection of my investment) depends on 100 other people also always doing the right thing!

I never thought about it before and now I would never buy a condo or co-op. The idea that other people have such control over your home, investment, and even physical safety is wild to me to think about.
 
Clearly there was not a bomb or traditional explosives. But, if part of the building or deck started to collapse and caused destabilization to the electrical room and transformer room, especially with those pictures of loose wiring and standing water in the parking garage, those explosions could have caused the rest of the building to fall. The longer they continued to explode, the more sections of building came down. I don't believe a building can pancake collapse and disintegrate into dust the way this one did without serious, active assault such as sinkhole, earthquake, or controlled demo (not saying it was a controlled demo, but the transformer explosions may have acted like a semi-controlled demo). The pool/parking deck may have collapsed and caused water to breach the electrical room and/or transformer vault. Those white lights looked just like telephone pole transformer explosions that occur during rainstorms. They were just going off violently, like an entire row or block of transformers were blowing, and it appeared many went off in succession and/or at the same time.

What other explanations are for those flashing white lights?

Not sure why that possibility would be controversial, or a "conspiracy theory", unless those responsible are trying to silence people who saw the evidence by accusing them of being conspiracy nuts.

I think most all of us have seen those bright lights.

Myself, I'm focused on how the building fell.

MOO 100% is not falling from top loaded falling down to pancake (a la 9/11 did which we all have seared in our minds)

MOO 100% this was like an implosion from below that knocked it all from underneath. To me, thank goodness for the video we have as MOO most all experts are saying was from the bottom that was the issue..... no matter what was seen as to "lights" on the /behind the building that is STILL STANDING.

MOO

Thank GOODNESS that there have been (almost) 0% conspiracy theories of bombs etc. and thank GOODNESS there is the surveillance photo video. MOO
 
Just going from memory (because I don't know how to attach the "deck page"). The"liability" policy only had limits of $1,000,000 per building, and only per occurence. So, if this was "one occurence" at "one location" the policy will only pay out a maximum of $1,000,000 for this catastrophe...Yikes...that is really really low. $1 mil divided by 136 units is only $7353 of liability pay out per condo. A pittance....
edited to add the "aggregate amount" (total possible claim) still can't exceed $2 mil. Also noticed the cost of the insurance is redacted. Why? It shouldn't be a secret how much the insurance premium was for the year, should it? I bet every condo association would probably be comparing the premiums on their coverage. For some reason, I'm thinking it wasn't a very expensive policy premium.
 
Last edited:
Video appears to show rubble in garage, water gushing just before Surfside condo collapse

A TikTok video posted Tuesday appears to show the north side of Champlain Towers South Condo just moments before the building collapsed. The video, taken from across 88th street, focuses on the entrance to the garage, where water appears to pour from the ceiling and huge chunks of concrete can be seen covering the floor.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article252475248.html
 
It says Miami-Dade County Code Sec. 8-5. Surfside is within Miami Dade County.
@bears10 Yes, "Town of Surfside" is within Miami-Dade County. Seems construction within Surfside would be(?) subject to Miami-Dade Co. building code.

But is it possible ---
1. M-D Co. building code does not apply to incorporated towns or municipalities within M-D Co. (such as Surfside) which have adopted their own building codes, i.e., M-D Co ordinance explicitly exempts those municipalities from M-D Co. building code?
2. Surfside's building code is stricter than M-D Co. building code and builders must comply w both M-D's and Surfside's code?

I'm aware of similar (seeming) anomalies in building codes between some municipalities within a certain county, but in a state other than FL. my2ct
Just considering possibilities, not saying either of the two possibilities are true.
 
Last edited:
I never thought about the pool mechanical room. I wonder where that was located? I know where the transformer vault and electrical room are, but I didn't see the pool mechanical room on the blueprints. The pool room would have a large amount of flammable chemicals (chlorine, bromine etc) and cleaning supplies. Combining the standing water in the pool room, electrical, and flammable chemicals, any disruptions to the stability of the building, such as a partial pool/parking deck collapse, could have triggered some kind of electrical explosion that triggered successive explosions moving into the electrical room and transformer vault. I don't think the building would have gone down like that without serious and continuous insult beyond one level of partial concrete collapse.


@NorahODonnell

Allyn Kilsheimer, the structural engineer hired by the town of Surfside, said a lobby attendant told him he heard three loud "booms" before the tower collapsed. "I think I understand the second one, I think I understand the third one. I don't understand the first one."

Video:
https://twitter.com/CBSEveningNews/status/1410005616911867905?s=20
 
ohhhhh kay.

So, water pouring onto the floor of the parking garage which also housed the electrical room and transformer vault. Clearly the pool/parking deck partially collapsed at least minutes before the building collapsed. The water can degrade the insulation in the transformers, causing coils to contact each other and explode.

Another scenario is the conduction of electricity through water. If the water contacted any open or loose electrical connections, it could send electricity through the water to other flammable elements (such as cars filled with gasoline) and create explosions and fires -- sort of like the orange smoke from fires that were seen in the video immediately after the main building collapsed.

ETA: the building was sheared off along the N-S hallway and elevator shafts. I wonder if the elevators conducted electrical explosions up towards the roof. That could explain the white flashes seen on the elevator control room on the roof.

Why Transformers Explode During Storms | StateImpact Pennsylvania

https://www.researchgate.net/public...f_Explosions_in_Underground_Electrical_Vaults

Video appears to show rubble in garage, water gushing just before Surfside condo collapse

A TikTok video posted Tuesday appears to show the north side of Champlain Towers South Condo just moments before the building collapsed. The video, taken from across 88th street, focuses on the entrance to the garage, where water appears to pour from the ceiling and huge chunks of concrete can be seen covering the floor.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article252475248.html
 
Last edited:
Timeline according to witnesses/survivors who lived on the ground floor:

Mother's account
12:30 am: arrives home
12:45 am: hearing “knocking sounds.”, they get louder
1:10 am: sound of a crashing wall; she goes to complain to the lobby next door
after a short exchange with security, they hear a boom (deck collapse)
she goes outside to check, tells her children to run
they stop in the lobby, telling security to call police and give him the address to the building
when they get across the street, the building collapses
Mother and daughter said they saw garage collapse before running from Surfside condo

Son's account
hearing noises in the ceiling get more and more intense
a rumble shakes the building
1:15 am: first collapse sounds (deck?)
1:19 am: entire building comes down
Mother’s instinct sent family scrambling to safety, says Miami collapse survivor

The witnesses first thought there was construction going on in the building but after seeing the deck collapse they attributed it to an earthquake.
 
Last edited:
FWIW, from Town of Surfside's website.
"The Town of Surfside's Building and Zoning Department is responsible for ensuring that all work done in the Town meets the Town's code as well as the Florida Building Code and that appropriate permits ....
"The state, county and local laws that apply to established minimum building regulations are designed to ultimately protect the public against substandard work that could potentially be a source of serious financial and/or safety issues...."
bbm
Frequently Asked Questions
 
Clearly there was not a bomb or traditional explosives. But, if part of the building or deck started to collapse and caused destabilization to the electrical room and transformer room, especially with those pictures of loose wiring and standing water in the parking garage, those explosions could have caused the rest of the building to fall. The longer they continued to explode, the more sections of building came down. I don't believe a building can pancake collapse and disintegrate into dust the way this one did without serious, active assault such as sinkhole, earthquake, or controlled demo (not saying it was a controlled demo, but the transformer explosions may have acted like a semi-controlled demo). The pool/parking deck may have collapsed and caused water to breach the electrical room and/or transformer vault. Those white lights looked just like telephone pole transformer explosions that occur during rainstorms. They were just going off violently, like an entire row or block of transformers were blowing, and it appeared many went off in succession and/or at the same time.

What other explanations are for those flashing white lights?

Not sure why that possibility would be controversial, or a "conspiracy theory", unless those responsible are trying to silence people who saw the evidence by accusing them of being conspiracy nuts.




Agree with you, in what we have seen appears "at this moment in time" a failure of supports, vs. anything immediately intentional to cause the catastrophic failure. And agree with you that something at the bottom was a chain reaction as to loading, vs. any conspiracy theory. MOO. Even for us laypersons, it was a failure from the bottom, not the top. MOO

I think most now are leaning towards what you and many are leaning to... as to the pool / parking deck supports gave way, something collapsed... then more collapsed, and then more collapsed.. and the lights at the top are a reaction of such with the flashing lights.
 
Video appears to show rubble in garage, water gushing just before Surfside condo collapse

A TikTok video posted Tuesday appears to show the north side of Champlain Towers South Condo just moments before the building collapsed. The video, taken from across 88th street, focuses on the entrance to the garage, where water appears to pour from the ceiling and huge chunks of concrete can be seen covering the floor.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article252475248.html

Finally on mainstream media so we can discuss, my hands have turned blue from sitting on this .

More to comment on and sync with other videos.. but due to TOS... still having to wait to comment more. But finally, MSM is getting out the personal postings for us to be allowed to comment on.

As is shown in this video... it looks as if the lower garage ceiling fell in... the this coincides with an earlier WS approved video of the potential columns and SPECIFIC car parking area.
 
Sharing this article at a friend's request. It's a local Sarasota waterfront condo that shared a similar experience, but had a different outcome. Explains really well the responsibilities of all the parties involved in Florida when it comes to crumbling waterfront condos.

The Story Behind a Downtown Sarasota Condo's Near-Collapse
 
The building was in Surfside, a different municipality.

In my opinion, there were many fire hazards mentioned in the 40 Year Remediation Repair List that were severe enough to warrant an order to evacuate -- regardless of municipality.

These include:
  • firewall missing above the exterior glass walls and doors below second floor exterior slabs
  • circuit identification labels missing on several panels
  • insufficient corridor illumination
  • absence of fire alarms in both the garage and pool deck areas
  • absence of smoke detectors in tenant storage rooms, meter rooms, and the first floor corridor
  • blocked exit signs in corridors leading to stairwells
  • rusted generator and day tank
  • missing safety disconnects on A/C compressors in garage rooms
  • improper fire penetration for meter from FPL vault to the main electrical room
  • low voltage wiring attached to busway (insufficient wiring)
  • rusted disconnect switch in generator room
  • rusted wireway and damaged disconnect switches on roof
  • fire pump base frame severely rusted (an added notation says this will affect the alignment of the pump shaft and result in bearing failure)
  • rusted 6" sprinkler main by fire pump
  • absence of backflow prevention
  • storage areas completely rotted from water damage and complete replacement is required due to fire hazard

https://s.wsj.net/public/resources/documents/miamiletter0628.pdf
 
I think the problem is the concept of a condo association, not the individual board members here. In order to make the best decisions, every owner (or at least 2/3+ of them) needs to take a long term view of their condo as an investment. With how frequently people buy and sell homes, many condo owners may rather sell than agree to costly repairs if they only have a 2-5 year ownership horizon. So you are depending on people who may want to move in a year to take on significant costs for the benefit of the building as a whole.

It is crazy to think about that if I am a condo owner, with significant money invested in my unit, the soundness of the building (and protection of my investment) depends on 100 other people also always doing the right thing!

I never thought about it before and now I would never buy a condo or co-op. The idea that other people have such control over your home, investment, and even physical safety is wild to me to think about.

Same here, way too many variables to balance for individual investment security. This is going to affect this type of real estate transaction going forward.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
100
Guests online
3,271
Total visitors
3,371

Forum statistics

Threads
604,192
Messages
18,168,836
Members
232,128
Latest member
valafares
Back
Top