FL - 17 killed in Stoneman Douglas H.S. shooting, Parkland, 14 Feb 2018 #3 *Arrest*

[EuTuCroquet?]

For anyone interested in the town hall meeting from last night, a reminder we have a gun control discussion thread here on WS, too. (For some reason Tapatalk won’t let me copy the link, but it’s easy enough to find if anyone want to pop over.)

Video and transcript at link:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/22/politics/cnn-town-hall-full-video-transcript/index.html

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

I so admire these young people! I hope they stay focused on their issue and don’t let politics/the ones who say these kids are crisis actors distract them. I wish they would not even acknowledge them. These kids know the truth; I hope they will not be side tracked. I believe “mental illness” and “gun control” are such huge political issues it will take a miracle for these issues to change any time soon.

Yes! All of this. Thank you.

 

[Yellow Rose]

I use to be all for people having guns of their choice but not anymore. I mean the only civilians using assault rifles are the one's going bat crap crazy on innocent people and mostly children. I've never read an incident where a mother woke in the middle of night and took out five intruders with her AAC Honey Badger and laid down some law. Something had to change. It's going to happen again

BBM And you know this how? Because you've interviewed everyone with an assault rifle? Sorry, but I'm trying to understand both sides of this issue and these kind of statements can often be taken as fact when they are indeed not so.

 

[Tawny]

You'd be surprised at just who has an assault rifle in their home. More than you realize. Can't unring that bell.

Yes, actually, you can. Responsible, law-abiding citizens will surrender them (non-profits will likely buy them back and destroy them). Then, the only people who own them will be outlaws who can then be arrested for possession of them. Some, we will likely never know about. FINE. As long as they keep them locked the **** up and nobody is hurt by them. Others, someone will turn them in. Still might be a tiny number who use them to do harm. Either way, we will either not hear about them or people will be arrested for possessing them.

Where's the downside to outlawing a machine designed to kill as many humans as possible in as little time as possible?

 

[cujenn81]

Articles speaks about the time after Lynda Cruz passed.:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/21/us/s...first-host-family-told-police-invs/index.html

She warned the police dispatcher that Cruz said "he was going to get his gun and come back," records show.
...
Rocxanne Deschamps told the dispatcher that Cruz had "bought tons of ammo" and "has used a gun against ppl before," the notes said. "He has put the gun to others heads in the past."
...
"The boy was stoic. Not a tear. Not an emotion. I asked him if he was upset. He said: 'I'm upset because nobody came, and nobody cares about my mother,'" Gold recalled.

I hate that this neighbor is using NC's stoic behavior at his mother's funeral to convey how emotionally disturbed he was as a person. I don't say that to defend this guy - because he's a ruthless and vile shell of a human being and there are plenty of other examples that clearly show he's beyond disturbing. I just hate to judge people based on the way they handle the death of a loved one, especially when that death is sudden. I wouldn't be surprised if both of her sons were still in shock about it at that time. Plus, they probably had questions weighing on their minds about where they were going to live and what was going to happen to them (due to their mother's lack of a will). And on top of that... no one even bothered to show up for the funeral except for the neighbors who gave them a ride there.

Everyone grieves differently and I just think she should have used another example to convey how messed up in the head he is --- the tortured frogs, the racist drawings, the fact that she called the cops because he may have buried a firearm in her backyard, his obsession with violent video games and talking about war, etc. There are plenty of well-adjusted people who don't cry at funerals because they haven't truly processed and/or accepted the death of their loved one yet. I'd hate for those people to get the wrong impression and question if their reaction was "wrong" somehow. YKWIM?

 

[MzOpinion8d]

A mind is an incredible thing. My kids are not my race. I can not tell you how many times people met us and said the kids looked like me,,,,,,,, there is no way---2 different races, no similar features like eye color or facial structure. I have learned not to assume racial make-up of people I meet because i have met people who look African American to me but are from Italy--do I think that if we go back a 100 years there is mixing? Yes.

Kids don't necessarily see things the way an adult might. The dad (I have not seen a picture of the dad) might have had darker coloring, we don't know. Kids usually won't ask once we tell them something, especially if it is about the life story that they have been told. Racism is often about the others, not the ones we love and are close to us--family is often the good ones versus the bad ones (whatever those ones are).

Are you saying NC might not have noticed his brother is black?

 

[Trino]

You'd be surprised at just who has an assault rifle in their home. More than you realize. Can't unring that bell.

We can't right now, but we can start. It will take time. Pass a law. Fifty years from now, there will be no assault weapons.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

We can't right now, but we can start. It will take time. Pass a law. Fifty years from now, there will be no assault weapons.

This is not at all unrealistic. After the end of WWII many British soldiers brought back German firearms, especially Lugers, as souvenirs, and over the following years these bled out into the wider community to the extent that by the early 1950s gun crime was probably at its highest level since WWI. However legislation, amnesties and other measures gradually took almost all of them out of circulation. Very occasionally a rusty handgun still turns up in the personal effects of an elderly man who has died and are handed over to the police for destruction.

I have said before and still think that the key to removing assault weapons from circulation in the US to attach such massive risk to their ownership that over time the risk becomes not worth it. Make the owner absolutely liable for any crimes committed with assault weapons owned by them, so that the outcome is catastrophic for those who allow them to be misused, eg death or life without parole for the owners of assault rifles used in crimes of any sort, and confiscation of all assets down to the last cent.

Turn assault rifles into a liability rather than an asset.

 

[PrairieWind]

I wonder why the shooters inheritance was not used to get him professional help, if in deed he is mentally ill. The mentally ill label seems to depend on who is telling his story. It is astonishing how one person can cause so much destruction in such a short amount of time. Seventeen innocent lives were ended, and many more victims left because of his horrible deed. Could his inheritance be used to help the victims who are still alive, the ones who have to go on living with this horror he has caused. Maybe it can be used to help Zachary so he does not copy what his brother has done. I don’t know the answers to all these killings that keep happening. God bless those lives that have ended. God bless the ones left behind, families and friends.

I wouldn't be surprised to see some civil law suits filed in the next week or so against Cruz and requests to the court to seize those funds. But my understanding was that the money was in some sort of a trust that would not disperse those funds until Cruz was 22 or so. IF that is the case, that money may not be available for a while.

 

[CARIIS]

This is not at all unrealistic. After the end of WWII many British soldiers brought back German firearms, especially Lugers, as souvenirs, and over the following years these bled out into the wider community to the extent that by the early 1950s gun crime was probably at its highest level since WWI. However legislation, amnesties and other measures gradually took almost all of them out of circulation. Very occasionally a rusty handgun still turns up in the personal effects of an elderly man who has died and are handed over to the police for destruction.

I have said before and still think that the key to removing assault weapons from circulation in the US to attach such massive risk to their ownership that over time the risk becomes not worth it. Make the owner absolutely liable for any crimes committed with assault weapons owned by them, so that the outcome is catastrophic for those who allow them to be misused, eg death or life without parole for the owners of assault rifles used in crimes of any sort, and confiscation of all assets down to the last cent.

Turn assault rifles into a liability rather than an asset.

50 years sounds about right. This congress can do nothing

until there are term limits for congress pretty hopeless

all of em are a bunch of corrupt lazy people that do nothing but fund raise and lie to get elected

 

[CARIIS]

Just saying Tricia started a gun control thread easier if all one but there is one now

just reminding

 

[sorrell skye]

I'm not yet convinced that he was truly hearing "demonic voices" telling him to slaughter his former classmates. This "devil-made-me-do-it" claim may be a cunning ploy on his part in an attempt to mitigate responsibility and garner sympathy - and it seems that his claim has been somewhat successful in terms of creating doubt here on this board regarding his culpability. *Buyer beware* of the possible snake-oil salesman!

According to reports, it appears that he was planning his massacre as long ago as two years. IMO, if "the devil", aka psychosis, is the culprit, he would have committed his atrocious act two years ago, shortly after he declared to whomever at the Dollar Tree that he was going to shoot up the school.

Question: Was his declaration two years ago accompanied by any other symptoms or observable behaviors such as: self-reported delusions or hallucinations, observable incoherent or incomprehensible speech? If not, it's more than likely that he was completely lucid when he made his declaration and was not under the influence of a psychotic episode, IMO.

IME, psychosis-induced actions tend to occur imminently, while under the influence of an acute or transient psychotic episode - not two years later.

The accounts reported by his former classmates (following the break-up with his girlfriend) of his violent death-threats toward his ex-girlfriend & others tell me that his murderous actions were meticulously preplanned. IMO, he was seeking revenge for a collection of perceived wrongs that he had been cataloguing.

Until & unless more convincing evidence is provided regarding his mental state, I'm not currently persuaded that his heinous rampage was due to any alleged or bona fide mental illness.

 

[Betty P]

50 years sounds about right. This congress can do nothing

until there are term limits for congress pretty hopeless

all of em are a bunch of corrupt lazy people that do nothing but fund raise and lie to get elected

Term limits aren't an answer, believe me. We have them in our state and it just made the politicians more corrupt. They take big bribes in the form of campaign contributions to run for office. While in office, they only serve the wealthy people who gave them money. When their term is up, they leave for some cushy job provided by all the powerful people and companies they helped. Corporate boards, lobbying, commercial development, investment firms. Lucrative insurance franchises are also popular. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Even worse, it drastically increases the amount of money a candidate needs to raise in order to run for state office. So an average person who wants to really serve the public can no longer afford to leave a career and raise and spend several hundred thousand dollars to run for a seat that pays $60,000 a yr. Good citizens get priced out of the market of running for office. Gerrymandering makes it very difficult, too.

Take it from a state that allowed term limits to happen. It's a massive disaster. Worse than ever. Just a bunch of corrupt hired hacks doing their time, serving the big donors.

 

[CARIIS]

ahhhhhh

if it takes longer than 72 hours for background check to come back its come and get it !!

msnbc

 

[PrairieWind]

I'm not yet convinced that he was truly hearing "demonic voices" telling him to slaughter his former classmates. This "devil-made-me-do-it" claim may be a cunning ploy on his part in an attempt to mitigate responsibility and garner sympathy - and it seems that his claim has been somewhat successful in terms of creating doubt here on this board regarding his culpability. *Buyer beware* of the possible snake-oil salesman!

According to reports, it appears that he was planning his massacre as long ago as two years. IMO, if "the devil", aka psychosis, is the culprit, he would have committed his atrocious act two years ago, shortly after he declared to whomever at the Dollar Tree that he was going to shoot up the school.

Question: Was his declaration two years ago accompanied by any other symptoms or observable behaviors such as: self-reported delusions or hallucinations, observable incoherent or incomprehensible speech? If not, it's more than likely that he was completely lucid when he made his declaration and was not under the influence of a psychotic episode, IMO.

IME, psychosis-induced actions tend to occur imminently, while under the influence of an acute or transient psychotic episode - not two years later.

The accounts reported by his former classmates (following the break-up with his girlfriend) of his violent death-threats toward his ex-girlfriend & others tell me that his murderous actions were meticulously preplanned. IMO, he was seeking revenge for a collection of perceived wrongs that he had been cataloguing.

Until & unless more convincing evidence is provided regarding his mental state, I'm not currently persuaded that his heinous rampage was due to any alleged or bona fide mental illness.

I would tend to agree. I am sure he had some alarming personality disorders, but not true mental illness.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

Just saying Tricia started a gun control thread easier if all one but there is one now

just reminding

Yep. Unfortunately sometimes it's difficult to see exactly where the boundary lies.

 

[Tawny]

Just saying Tricia started a gun control thread easier if all one but there is one now

just reminding

Thanks. I hadn't seen it.

 

[ukrberserker23]

Just go to YouTube, and you will find several videos about him.

 

[CARIIS]

beep beep breaking

apparently the school officer was in position to go after him and chickened out

suspended.



msnbc

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local...r-Who-Was-at-Parkland-Shooting-474889753.html

he just resigned

 

[CARIIS]

[h=2]Two other officers who previously interacted in one of the calls related to Cruz have been placed on restrictive duty[/h]
same link