FL - 17 killed in Stoneman Douglas H.S. shooting, Parkland, 14 Feb 2018 #3 *Arrest*

[human]

I think LE is extra careful with young people since they don't want to give them a criminal record, if at all possible.
Plus I wonder if, LE realized (from his mom) that he was getting counseling and had diagnosed behavioral problems
and had a counselor, they passed off the hot potato to DCF once, but did not want to charge him for those reasons.
Or maybe they just don't want the extra paperwork of charging, appearing in court, etc. Donuts are waiting.

Every few years we have a case here where it's proven that somebody, either DCF or LE, dropped the ball and
someone (usually a baby or child or domestic violence) dies and then there's a bit stink raised for a while and then it goes away.

I think that so many crimes happen and people get out with a slap on the wrist that unless it is something really bad, it is not worth the hassle. We see on here how even horrendous rape gets someone a six month sentence. Or how a super rich guy , a Dupont heir, sex abused a child but he was too rich to prosecute.

 

[human]

The school he shot up wasn't a school for special needs students. So it would appear he wasn't considered special needs.

He was not in that school, He is entitled for special education until age 22.

The discussion about whether he was special needs student at this point in time is irrelevant. He had quit school but now was taking classes somewhere else.

Special needs students are mainstreamed as soon as possible, That does not change them from being a special needs student at any school.

He is entitled, as are all special needs students, an education until age 22

 

[jjenny]

He was not in that school, He is entitled for special education until age 22.

The discussion about whether he was special needs student at this point in time is irrelevant. He had quit school but now was taking classes somewhere else.

Special needs students are mainstreamed as soon as possible, That does not change them from being a special needs student at any school.

He is entitled, as are all special needs students, an education until age 22

What do you mean he was not at the school. He went there for a time. He wasn't in any school at the time of a shooting, he was enrolled in adult education center to get GED.

 

[jjenny]

I haven't seen any mention of his bio parents....

The new Sun-Sentinel article claims birth mother was drug tested at the adoptive parents request prior to adoption. So that presumably means she wasn't a drug addict. NC was adopted as a new born. His bio father is unknown. ZC was adopted from the same mother, when she had another child later. ZC and NC apparently did have same birth mother but different bio fathers.

 

[Lulu_la_Nantaise]

Regarding the deputies on the scene: Sheriff said Dep. Peterson, school resource officer, DID use his radio to contact
headquarters, then took position and waited 4 min. Was he directed to go in or stay in position?

IME, around here, even in a domestic violence incidence where the perp is holed up inside a house, LE never goes in alone and in many cases even if there's multiple LE on scene, LE on the scene waits for SWAT to show up then SWAT goes in as a group. But SWAT
has the heavy duty fire power, not a revolver like Peterson had. I'm confused at this blame of Peterson.
IMO, if he did go into the school, it would have been like walking into the firing squad- big, fast weapon against puny,
slow, less powerful weapon.

BBM

This explain why Dep. Peterson was supposed to enter the school and go after the shooter:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...re-sounding-he-should-have-stopped/365122002/

Modern active shooter procedures changed after the Columbine High School shooting in 1999 when officers were trained to wait for SWAT officers to respond and take out a threat. The officers in that shooting allowed the suspects to continue their rampage without being challenged. In the end, 13 people were killed.

But I totally agree with you. What was he supposed to do against an AR with some hand-gun? Life is not a Chuck Norris movie.

 

[human]

or even a knife or object. Throwing chairs at teachers for example. Erratic, violent behavior is frightening.

Yes. Teachers in schools with behavior rooms or residentail treatment schools deals with this probably daily. They have to teach academics as well as work on ways to have the child learn to challenge anger. I wonder how many kids there are like Cruz. My bet is several thousand or more.

Because of privacy laws, the public has no clue what kinds of things children experience and then the consequences of that experience. These kids are often in schools except the ones that are locked in closets and basements.

 

[human]

What do you mean he was not at the school. He went there for a time. He wasn't in any school at the time of a shooting, he was enrolled in adult education center to get GED.

He was not a present day student of the school he shot up.

I am really confused. He has an IEP. It does not go away until he turns 22. The IEP is relevant no matter what school in Florida or any state in the US that he attends, An IEP is not school specific.

But that has nothing to do with his behavior outside of school. Only the rules schools have to follow in providing education for him. It does not apply to work or home.

 

[human]

Not sure what you mean by that. His adoptive mother called police on him numerous times. At least some calls were about him being abusive and violent toward her. So she was the "actual victim."

The post was in reference to him holding a gun to someone’s head. Is there an actual victim complaint to LE about that. The vidtim, Did the victim of having a gun held to the head call LE and report that happened?

 

[enelram]

BBM

This explain why Dep. Peterson was supposed to enter the school and go after the shooter:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...re-sounding-he-should-have-stopped/365122002/



But I totally agree with you. What was he supposed to do against an AR with some hand-gun? Life is not a Chuck Norris movie.

In perusing articles about Dep. Peterson's actions, in the comment section, a contributor who had worked in a large
police department for many years made an interesting comment. He said, in every LE office there are officers that
everyone knows would not aggressively pursue an armed perp, they just know. In those cases the officer is assigned
to low risk duty where the likelihood of them ever coming face to face with an armed perp or violent offender is low.
So they are kept on the force but assigned to a less risky assignment.
I thought this was interesting.

 

[Tricia]

If posters do not think we should be discussing mental health issues you are wrong. It is all about mental health, this killer screaming from social media his plans and the FBI ignoring the tip.

You are welcome to leave this thread and check out our gun control debate https://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?366337-Gun-Control-Debate-2

 

[ohreally]

He was not a present day student of the school he shot up.

I am really confused. He has an IEP. It does not go away until he turns 22. The IEP is relevant no matter what school in Florida or any state in the US that he attends, An IEP is not school specific.

But that has nothing to do with his behavior outside of school. Only the rules schools have to follow in providing education for him. It does not apply to work or home.

I have a question. Can someone that has an IEP over the age of 18 sign off that they no longer want to be in the program?
I do wonder if after being suttled from school to school, if he might of decided he was done with the program.
I do understand that the school systems do have the obligation to educated him until he is 22. I have seen this happen with special needs students in main stream school. I have seen students that have recieved a certificate of completion before thier 22nd birthday, and the state is obligated to continue thier education in technical schools and such. I have also seen where special needs students stay in the mainstream school until thier 22nd birthday.
I just wonder what happens with a student that at 18 decides they no longer want to be in the program. Can they opt out?

 

[ohreally]

I have not seen where the victim reported having a gun to thier head. What I have seen is that at least two people reported the possible crime to law enforcement, FBI. At least one of the transcrpts of the calls have been release.
If you see (hear) something report it and it will be investigated. That was not done in this case. It was reported and the ball was dropped.
If it had been investigated, maybe mom would of verified, maybe brother would of verified, maybe NC would of verified it. He had no problem confessing to killing 17 people.
IMO the problem is that it was never investigated, which lead to an arrest not being made, which lead to him legally being allowed to own a gun.

 

[enelram]

I have a question. Can someone that has an IEP over the age of 18 sign off that they no longer want to be in the program?
I do wonder if after being suttled from school to school, if he might of decided he was done with the program.
I do understand that the school systems do have the obligation to educated him until he is 22. I have seen this happen with special needs students in main stream school. I have seen students that have recieved a certificate of completion before thier 22nd birthday, and the state is obligated to continue thier education in technical schools and such. I have also seen where special needs students stay in the mainstream school until thier 22nd birthday.
I just wonder what happens with a student that at 18 decides they no longer want to be in the program. Can they opt out?

I think this article will answer your question.

https://theoptoutfloridanetwork.wor...for-students-with-developmental-disabilities/

 

[ohreally]

I think this article will answer your question.

https://theoptoutfloridanetwork.wor...for-students-with-developmental-disabilities/

Thank you. I did not know these changes were made in 2014. The law change seems to stop the certificate program, but not the right for an education till they are 22. I may be reading it wrong.
My question is if at 18 he decided he didn't like the rules (such as the constant changes of schools) of the IEP program and wanted out what happens? Does he just walk away and if he wants to come back to the program before he is 22 he gets to? If after a certain amount of time (I believe he was out of school for a year) he doesn't attend classes is he dropped from the program?
Reports are that he was attending adult education classes. I wonder if qualified under the IEP program while attending these classes.
I am just curious how it works.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

To clarify. He was expelled. (ETA: Later reports show he wasn't. I apologize.)

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/14/us/nikolas-cruz-florida-shooting.html

He was not in that school, He is entitled for special education until age 22.

The discussion about whether he was special needs student at this point in time is irrelevant. He had quit school but now was taking classes somewhere else.

Special needs students are mainstreamed as soon as possible, That does not change them from being a special needs student at any school.

He is entitled, as are all special needs students, an education until age 22

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

“He put the gun on the head of his brother before, so not the first time, and he did that to his mother… It’s not the first time he’s put a gun on someone’s head," she said.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ead-chilling-nikolas-cruz-911-call/366343002/



Rocxanne Deschamps told the dispatcher that Cruz had "bought tons of ammo" and "has used a gun against ppl before," the notes said. "He has put the gun to others heads in the past."
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/21/us/s...first-host-family-told-police-invs/index.html

 

[kdg411]

The Sheriff’s Office has since opened two internal affairs investigations looking into whether its deputies followed the department’s standards after receiving two phone calls.

After the February 2016 call, a deputy forwarded the information to the Stoneman Douglas School Resource Officer (RSO), Deputy Scot Peterson.

“Third hand information received from neighbor’s son that Nikolas Cruz planned to shoot up the school on Instagram (Picture of juvenile with guns)," according to the notes from a dispatcher taking the call.*

The deputy had "determined Nikolas Cruz possessed knives and a BB gun" before passing it along to Peterson. It's not clear what, if anything, Peterson did with the information.

https://www.naplesnews.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/02/23/florida-school-shooting-sheriff-got-18-calls-cruzs-violence-threats-guns/366165002/

Did the school utilize their own threat assessment policy?

Broward County Threat Assessment Procedure Manual

 

[ohreally]

To clarify. He was expelled; he didn't quit school.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/14/us/nikolas-cruz-florida-shooting.html

The first reports that came out said he was expelled, the newest reports are that he was not expelled. This one even says it would of been illegal to expel him. It's always interesting to me how reporting changes as time goes on.
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/b...l-shooting-school-trouble-20180220-story.html

 

[enelram]

Thank you. I did not know these changes were made in 2014. The law change seems to stop the certificate program, but not the right for an education till they are 22. I may be reading it wrong.
My question is if at 18 he decided he didn't like the rules (such as the constant changes of schools) of the IEP program and wanted out what happens? Does he just walk away and if he wants to come back to the program before he is 22 he gets to? If after a certain amount of time (I believe he was out of school for a year) he doesn't attend classes is he dropped from the program?
Reports are that he was attending adult education classes. I wonder if qualified under the IEP program while attending these classes.
I am just curious how it works.

I think your interpretations are correct. Unless there have been recent changes, I think anyone over 16 can quit school
here in Fl. Regarding getting his GED, admission into Adult Education Programs is pretty lenient. They give an admissions test mainly to evaluate what you already know and at what level to start your program. At least that's how it was many years ago when I was involved with it.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

If he had been arrested and charged as an adult, then probably. He was a minor during most of these incidents. Aren't the records of minors confidential? Do we have access to that info; has it been released publicly?

If he was arrested, charged and convicted for any of the things he reportedly did, then he wouldn't have been able to legally purchase assault weapons.