FL - 17 killed in Stoneman Douglas H.S. shooting, Parkland, 14 Feb 2018 #3 *Arrest*

[kdg411]

Kia was listed in court documents. I am not sure how the judge could just decide about an estate without a hearing. Potentially money could be coming as not part of the estate but something else. Trust? Life insurance policy?

A conservatorship change would not require NC to be present if he signed over his rights, correct? These types of legal hearings are not open to the public either. So if NC signed away his rights the new conservator(s) would be the only persons to know what, if any, assets exist.

In laymens terms, it`s not our business to know if any assets exist because it would no longer involve NC.

Please don`t take my words as harsh or offensive. The thread is about NC and the multifacets of this event.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

It's kind of hard to raise babies, adorable or not, when one is nearing 50. These two people adopted these two young children at pretty advanced ages. Which in retrospect wasn't the best idea. It would be hard to raise normally developing children at her age, let alone ones with special needs and numerous issues.

Do you have links to support your notion that 50 yr olds aren’t the wisest group to adopt? Why would young parents be better suited? Just curious.....

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I know why I am concerned. She was a woman living under tremendous stress with children who had lots of needs. Add to it now she is losing her home.

Who knows how her mental state affected her homelife. Not good, I am sure.

She started out with the dream of two adorable babies. It turned into a nightmare for her. She did not ask for her husband to die. She took babies that were born to a mother with issues. Noble.

Life beat her down. And it seems she was failed . The police write her off. The mental health did not see his potential. She tried to save money when she got sick. Her life was probably out of control. No friends. No one to confide in .

Dealing with her difficulties all alone.

To this, I totally agree with, human.

 

[bears10]

I have no idea what NCs financial situation is. But I think it’s naive to strictly look at Lynda’s finances and assume that since she had very little, that NC was set to inherit very little. The dad was previously married and had kids from his first marriage. My husband is also divorced with kids. We are in the process of doing our wills, trusts, etc. Since dad had other children, regardless if they were adults at the time or not, it wouldn’t be surprising to me if he had a trust set up for his children, which neither mother had access to. When you have wealth combined with an unconventional family situation, things are way different than a married couple that has no previous marriages or children from outside of their marriage. JMO. I’m also really tired and probably not articulating this on paper the way I am in my head.

 

[kdg411]

I’m curious about what the general consensus is from the thread on Rogers business? Any thoughts on the value of his share(s) left behind? Did he have a Will?

Roger had a retirement plan with the company he worked with listed earlier in the thread. The Federal case found via Pacer only showed that after he died the Federal government requested the dissolve of that specific retirement plan citing ERISA compliance. So he did have a retirement plan. Also, the short sale home required the signatures of the owners for the sale to be granted and LC, NC as well as ZC were part owners of that property. Documentation is listed on the Broward County Assessor`s site. So I believe he was preparing to secure the boys had an investment that could have been valuable to them. MOO

Hope that made sense.

 

[PrairieWind]

Do you have links to support your notion that 50 yr olds aren’t the wisest group to adopt? Why would young parents be better suited? Just curious.....

Most adoption agencies will have age cut-offs, above which will disqualify you for adoption. Often the adoptive parents must take physicals to show they are fit and provide financial proof that they can support the child. Private adoptions can get around these things but they still must be approved by a court. There are statutory requirements that must be proven for the state court to issue a Writ of Adoption.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Most adoption agencies will have age cut-offs, above which will disqualify you for adoption. Often the adoptive parents must take physicals to show they are fit and provide financial proof that they can support the child. Private adoptions can get around these things but they still must be approved by a court. There are statutory requirements that must be proven for the state court to issue a Writ of Adoption.

I personally believe that it takes more than physical fitness to be a qualified and appropriate adoptive parent. Or any type of parent for that matter.

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

I’m curious about what the general consensus is from the thread on Rogers business? Any thoughts on the value of his share(s) left behind? Did he have a Will?

His estate was valued at "over one million" during probate. Link up thread somewhere.

He had several children from his first marriage; I would presume they all got a piece. The more it's split, the less anyone gets.

The business? The New York Times article talking it up is from the late 80s. The printing business in general took a severe hit as computers became ubiquitous and programs like printshop made it easy for people to put together their own newsletters, presentations, etc. My hubs did some graphic design work in the early 90s. By the mid 90s he had quit, everyone was putting together their own stuff on their own computers. Couldn't make any money at it anymore.

The family was certainly well off, and the business might have been raking in money still, but there's a pretty good chance that it was dying down. They paid a lot of money to adopt, he also had obligations to his other children... Child support, college, maybe alimony for his ex-wife. For that matter, a lot of his wealth could have gone to his ex-wife when they divorced.

I don't think we really have enough info to know for sure how much he had left, too many variables, but based on the 'over one million' estate I would expect they were well off, but not rolling in dough. (technical financial terms[emoji6])

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[MsFacetious]

I SWEAR I saw that Nick signed over the right to be in charge of the estate to RD. However I can find NO article stating that. Did I dream it?! If I'm dreaming stuff now I gotta take a break.

Locking up food in a home breeds a hostile home environment. It shows a lack of trust and a lack of empathy, it demonstrates a desire to control other people who live in the home. IMO, it's a horrible thing to do to children.

Of course there are exceptions and I see later on in the thread that it was explained. However with typical children who understand limits I would never lock up food. Not all of us have typical kids though.

I can attest to this as well. The custodian who works in my office is on the spectrum, and he is also diabetic. He is notorious for taking food that doesn't belong to him out of the fridge and consuming it as fast as he can so that no one will know it was him. However, he will leave the food alone if I attach a note with my name and explicitly state "do not touch" on it. But, everyone in the office has to keep a close eye on him during holiday work luncheons and things like that because he won't stop eating unless someone tells him to stop. We once caught him eating an entire container of cake icing with a spoon.

Thank you for being patient with this guy and being kind and understanding with him. Parents of kids with disabilities all over hope their children only encounter people like you in the future. :loveyou:

I agree!!! I was a professional and had 24 hour staff to deal with these things. They changed shifts, were trained on burn out and encouraged to let us know if they were seeing signs in themselves or another staff..... and it was still truly extremely hard work. It makes me cringe when I see people saying she was abusing them because of certain things that I know to be huge hurdles in dealing with many kids (or in my case, adults) with disabilities. We had all the professionals you could hire in my team and the behaviors still were not able to be fixed, usually. The behavior plans generally read "behavior x will be reduced to no more than x amount of times per (month/ week/ day or even hour)". Behavior reduction. And when behavioral interventions were not working, you went to things such as locking the refrigerator and food cabinets. It was already stated by the new Guardians that he had odd eating habits (put a cookie in his sandwich). I can bet he had some serious behaviors surrounding food.

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:loveyou: THANK YOU so much for helping people to understand this! I was trying to think of how to do it without being defensive. I was thrilled to see that you managed it so well.

I've seen kids who will literally eat what's there. Empty out the fridge of everything except condiments? They will drink Italian dressing, eat marina sauce and pickles. Seriously! Even when a healthy breakfast/lunch they LIKE is made especially for them. I can't exactly understand why but it happens.

Did you also have experience with those who were at higher risk for health issues? Those with heart defects or prone to diabetes? That adds in another layer of concern.

If you have a child with Down syndrome who also has a family history of diabetes that starts binge eating in their teens.... that's a huge issue.

They are at risk of diabetes, becoming overweight, have a heart defect.... if routine discipline doesn't work locking up the food may be the only choice.

I know, and I am sickened over it. This is an unusual set of circumstances. His brother deserves a fresh start regardless of Niks imprisonment. I would love to see him turn things around in a big way.

I totally agree. I'm really rooting for Zachary to succeed and maybe help teach others what he's learned.

Nikolas Cruz's brother regrets bullying school shooter, police report says

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/02/us/florida-school-shooting-brother/index.html

In this picture, Devaney's son, Gavin, is seen behind Nikolas who is wearing a mickey mouse costume.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/radaro...-cruz-childhood-neighbor-florida-shooter/amp/

Nickolas was one an adorable, happy baby. All of the people who commit these awful crimes were once small babies. How does this happen? How do we recognize it before it gets to this point? It's awful. That Mickey Mouse costume picture breaks my heart. :tantrum:

 

[kdg411]

I SWEAR I saw that Nick signed over the right to be in charge of the estate to RD. However I can find NO article stating that. Did I dream it?! If I'm dreaming stuff now I gotta take a break.

You weren`t dreaming, NC did sign over his 50% interest to both ZC & RD. It hasn`t hit MSM, yet.



Per Broward County court records

 

[K_Z]

I'm leaving a link to another post I made in the "gun control" thread, because I couldn't decide which thread I should post it in. It's lengthy, and has many links, related to the proliferation of official school policies in Broward County (and elsewhere) that discourage schools from involving police in school crimes such as assault-- and tie the school cooperation with these appallingly misguided "no discipline, no police, no record" policies to FUNDING.

These appalling policies are making our schools, and Nikolas Cruz's district in particular, far LESS SAFE for ALL the students. That is no longer an opinion-- it is now a fact. A factual and appropriate paper trail and history of official intervention OUTSIDE of the school administrator's decisions (police and juvenile justice) would have prevented NC from buying the weapon he used to kill 17 people.

So with our collective anger and grief, we should channel part of that toward repealing these policies. That is AT LEAST as important as gun control measures we are debating all over the country.

We must be intellectually honest, and ADMIT that these misguided policies enabled NC to become a mass killer.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?366960-Gun-Control-Debate-3&p=13966726#post13966726

 

[x_files]

I SWEAR I saw that Nick signed over the right to be in charge of the estate to RD. However I can find NO article stating that. Did I dream it?! If I'm dreaming stuff now I gotta take a break.




Of course there are exceptions and I see later on in the thread that it was explained. However with typical children who understand limits I would never lock up food. Not all of us have typical kids though.




Thank you for being patient with this guy and being kind and understanding with him. Parents of kids with disabilities all over hope their children only encounter people like you in the future. :loveyou:




:loveyou: THANK YOU so much for helping people to understand this! I was trying to think of how to do it without being defensive. I was thrilled to see that you managed it so well.

I've seen kids who will literally eat what's there. Empty out the fridge of everything except condiments? They will drink Italian dressing, eat marina sauce and pickles. Seriously! Even when a healthy breakfast/lunch they LIKE is made especially for them. I can't exactly understand why but it happens.

Did you also have experience with those who were at higher risk for health issues? Those with heart defects or prone to diabetes? That adds in another layer of concern.

If you have a child with Down syndrome who also has a family history of diabetes that starts binge eating in their teens.... that's a huge issue.

They are at risk of diabetes, becoming overweight, have a heart defect.... if routine discipline doesn't work locking up the food may be the only choice.




I totally agree. I'm really rooting for Zachary to succeed and maybe help teach others what he's learned.

Nikolas Cruz's brother regrets bullying school shooter, police report says

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/02/us/florida-school-shooting-brother/index.html



Nickolas was one an adorable, happy baby. All of the people who commit these awful crimes were once small babies. How does this happen? How do we recognize it before it gets to this point? It's awful. That Mickey Mouse costume picture breaks my heart. :tantrum:

Sounds like Zachary was part of the problem. I wonder why he bullied his older brother.

 

[jjenny]

Sounds like Zachary was part of the problem. I wonder why he bullied his older brother.

Sure doesn't sound like NC was all that nice to his brother either.

 

[jjenny]

I'm leaving a link to another post I made in the "gun control" thread, because I couldn't decide which thread I should post it in. It's lengthy, and has many links, related to the proliferation of official school policies in Broward County (and elsewhere) that discourage schools from involving police in school crimes such as assault-- and tie the school cooperation with these appallingly misguided "no discipline, no police, no record" policies to FUNDING.

These appalling policies are making our schools, and Nikolas Cruz's district in particular, far LESS SAFE for ALL the students. That is no longer an opinion-- it is now a fact. A factual and appropriate paper trail and history of official intervention OUTSIDE of the school administrator's decisions (police and juvenile justice) would have prevented NC from buying the weapon he used to kill 17 people.

So with our collective anger and grief, we should channel part of that toward repealing these policies. That is AT LEAST as important as gun control measures we are debating all over the country.

We must be intellectually honest, and ADMIT that these misguided policies enabled NC to become a mass killer.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?366960-Gun-Control-Debate-3&p=13966726#post13966726

ITA. If they are trying to keep those teenagers from getting a record, what about the teenagers that do need to have a record? Having a history of criminal behavior but a clean record isn't going to do society any good.

 

[jjenny]

You weren`t dreaming, NC did sign over his 50% interest to both ZC & RD. It hasn`t hit MSM, yet.

View attachment 130899

Per Broward County court records

It's not like he would have been able to keep that money for himself. Either the victims families would get it in lawsuits, or defense lawyers for defending him.

 

[jjenny]

I personally believe that it takes more than physical fitness to be a qualified and appropriate adoptive parent. Or any type of parent for that matter.

Doesn't look like this woman had any of these qualifications. She couldn't control her adopted children. Constant calls to police department, most for silly reasons most people wouldn't have called police.

 

[MsFacetious]

You weren`t dreaming, NC did sign over his 50% interest to both ZC & RD. It hasn`t hit MSM, yet.

View attachment 130899

Per Broward County court records

If it hasn't hit MSM yet then how the heck did I know it happened? :thinking:
Kinda freaked out now. :scared:

Sounds like Zachary was part of the problem. I wonder why he bullied his older brother.

Because Zachary felt like Nick was the favorite. Z was forced to bring Nick along when he went somewhere. That is not a wise parenting choice. It will obviously breed resentment, likely both ways with the siblings.

 

[x_files]

Sure doesn't sound like NC was all that nice to his brother either.

agreed. Sounds like they both needed therapy/counseling, etc...dsyfunctional family.

 

[grammieto5]

No child left behind, no discipline, no police, no record. That definitely explains a lot about so many students.

 

[ohreally]

It is sad, that’s why I was wondering when they were taken. Even the shot of the garbage receptacles outside with stuff piled up on top.

They could have gathered the stuff up quickly to take a photo of the cubby near the refrigerators. That’s just an odd shot all together. Why leave any clutter and random stuff on the refrigerators?

Maybe because it was a short sale it wasn’t staged accordingly?

You weren`t dreaming, NC did sign over his 50% interest to both ZC & RD. It hasn`t hit MSM, yet.

Per Broward County court records

interesting.
I thought the lady that was trying to take over the finances last name was Deschamps, not Cruz. If the name is incorrect then I don't see how this is a binding contract. I can see NC willingly signing such a paper so that it goes to his brother and Deschamps rather than the money going to legal fees or the victims.