FL 17 y/o Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #12

[flourish]

Exactly, and under those conditions a patient cannot just sign a waiver of liability For the same reason that you cannot except a waiver of liability from someone who is on drugs, either legal or illegal, or someone that the medical professional has every reason to believe may have impaired thought processes, it won't hold up in Court and you will be sued if something happens. There is a reason we can't let a patient have pain medication until they have signed the consent to surgery, if they sign under the influence of pain killers then it is not legal.

ITA. It's my understanding that someone has to be in a condition where they can make informed consent in order to sign something saying they don't need assistance. If someone is barely conscious, I doubt that meets the criteria for being able to make informed consent?

 

[LolaMoon08]

I think we have hints Zimmerman's lawyer it really looking at this no treatment thing too. He said Zimmerman asked for medical attention and did not get it.

I have a feeling he is going to go the route: his injury was so bad nothing in his statement can be used against him.

Zimmerman's lawyer said that Zimmerman asked for medical attention and he did not get it? I thought that he was "cleaned up" on the scene?

 

[HiHater]

Imo, the black on black crime rate is relevant. Rev Jackson said " Black males are being HUNTED." and he was implying that white racists were to blame. And that is not the case at all. Look at the statistics. They are not unfounded. Black males are eight times as likely to die in a violent manner and are responsible for the violence 90% of the time. My son is half black. He is well aware of this fact himself.

Didn't realize those activists are not to be discussed...sorry!

 

[Horace Finklestein]

So I can chase you, and get in your face, but if you SAY anything to me, you're the aggressor?

Example...

No, only if you ATTACK the person, as TM did imo.

 

[Sensei]

I think we have hints Zimmerman's lawyer it really looking at this no treatment thing too. He said Zimmerman asked for medical attention and did not get it.

I have a feeling he is going to go the route: his injury was so bad nothing in his statement can be used against him.

I have been a bit worried about that as well...and the only thing that will cover the EMT's keister is if they did in fact document that they saw no evidence of injury, no gash, abrasion or contusion to substantiate the claim that his head was hit against the concrete, or the ground.

Otherwise, he can claim that he had a concussion and was not able to think and remember, and that his statment is inherently unreliable.

I think that may be where they are headed IMO JMHO and stuff.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

From this point on, we will no longer allow discussion of Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, or the Black Panther protest(s). There are way too many <modsnips> and timeouts to continue this discussion. We will allow MSM links to such protests, but no discussion.

We need to stick to the facts of this case and that's our discussion here. Please, we ask that you do what you do best - SLEUTH THE CASE.

Blogs and Twitter links and discussion of them are allowed only if it's an approved WS link or a link from main stream media (MSM).

Please post media links here: Trayvon Martin Shooting Media Thread - NO DISCUSSION - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


Tricia will be discussing the Trayvon Martin case on Websleuths Radio tomorrow evening and you're invited to call in and join her on the show, which will include the discussion of the protests you cannot discuss here.

Bumping

 

[HiHater]

Exactly, and under those conditions a patient cannot just sign a waiver of liability For the same reason that you cannot except a waiver of liability from someone who is on drugs, either legal or illegal, or someone that the medical professional has every reason to believe may have impaired thought processes, it won't hold up in Court and you will be sued if something happens. There is a reason we can't let a patient have pain medication until they have signed the consent to surgery, if they sign under the influence of pain killers then it is not legal.

Is that the same thing as "against medical advice" or AMA?

 

[HiHater]

Bumping

Thanks, I had missed that!

 

[LolaMoon08]

I have been a bit worried about that as well...and the only thing that will cover the EMT's keister is if they did in fact document that they saw no evidence of injury, no gash, abrasion or contusion to substantiate the claim that his head was hit against the concrete, or the ground.

Otherwise, he can claim that he had a concussion and was not able to think and remember, and that his statment is inherently unreliable.

I think that may be where they are headed IMO JMHO and stuff.

Yeah, we already know they are going to say he had Post Traumatic Stress Disorder?

So will the story change when he "remembers?"

 

[flourish]

Imo, the black on black crime rate is relevant. Rev Jackson said " Black males are being HUNTED." and he was implying that white racists were to blame. And that is not the case at all. Look at the statistics. They are not unfounded. Black males are eight times as likely to die in a violent manner and are responsible for the violence 90% of the time. My son is half black. He is well aware of this fact himself.

Please see the following post:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7736761&postcount=1764"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #9[/ame]

HTH.

 

[katydid23]

Here's the last several posts so any confusion on any part might be cleared?

EXACTLY. Someone said it was only 7pm so there would be no reason to be suspicious. And I answered that many burglaries take place at that time,as do casings.

At NO TIME did I imply that TM was burglarizing or casing, only that some people do that at 7 pm or so.

Just to clear up any confusion, like you said.

 

[LolaMoon08]

I still think they should have done a drug/alcohol test on Zimmerman that night.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Bumping

Thanks! I thought I read that somewhere, but I'm treading lightly because I still feel bad about hurting someone's feelings yesterday.

 

[Sensei]

ITA. It's my understanding that someone has to be in a condition where they can make informed consent in order to sign something saying they don't need assistance. If someone is barely conscious, I doubt that meets the criteria for being able to make informed consent?

I am not a first responder in that I don't do Ambulance duty, where I am people come to me, but, IF I were in that capacity, and someone told me a story about having their head hit concrete, and I saw any evidence of it at all a gash, an abrasion, a contusion any evidence whatsoever to substantiate that claim, then they would have to go to the hospital, simply because a person who has a concussion does not have the ability to give informed consent, because it interferes with your thought processes.

There is NO WAY that anyone is going to convince me that GZ was barely conscious a mere 35 minutes before that video tape was shot....IMO JMHO and stuff.

 

[rotterdam]

Me too, I would have stayed i my car with doors locked.
But we do NOT know that GZ used any deadly force.
We do know that something did happen and a boy is dead.
That is all we really know.

Just as you can imagine that maybe GZ used deadly force.
I can also imagine that maybe TM got smart and testy and caused this.
But do I know for sure? ... No I don’t know anything and neither do you.
:moo:

BBM. What happened to that good old proverb "stick or stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me".
Guess we have to add to that now. Unless you are GZ , live in FL and claim SYG.:floorlaugh:
And we do know that GZ used deadly force. There was a funeral of a young teenager with a single bullet hole to prove that . I call that deadly force.

 

[csziggy]

Trayvon Martin shooting: It's not George Zimmerman crying for help on 911 recording, 2 experts say
5:38 p.m. EST, March 31, 2012|

By Jeff Weiner, Orlando Sentinel

As the Trayvon Martin controversy splinters into a debate about self-defense, a central question remains: Who was heard crying for help on a 911 call in the moments before the teen was shot?

A leading expert in the field of forensic voice identification sought to answer that question by analyzing the recordings for the Orlando Sentinel.

His result: It was not George Zimmerman who called for help.

Tom Owen, forensic consultant for Owen Forensic Services LLC and chair emeritus for the American Board of Recorded Evidence, used voice identification software to rule out Zimmerman. Another expert contacted by the Sentinel, utilizing different techniques, came to the same conclusion.

More: http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...cation-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty

BBM

The experts did not have Trayvon's voice to compare but the results were so low on a match with GZ's they rule him out.

 

[m00c0w]

BBM

No it isn't, and no one has ever said that, even the family has always said arrest him and let a jury decide.

JMHO

BBM

The lack of due process is what's troubling most people, I believe.

 

[Sensei]

Is that the same thing as "against medical advice" or AMA?

Pretty much, it is a paper that basically in legalese says that I as your attending physician, or EMT, (basically any medical professional) have advised you that you have whatever condition or injury that you have, and I have advised you that these are the risks associated with this condition or injury and I have advised you that you need further medical attention, and if you choose not to get such medical attention that you cannot later sue me, you are releasing me of having any further liability in this matter.

And as long as they are of sound mind, with no reason to believe that they have impaired thought processes then it is binding and releases you although there have been malpractice suits brought even when there was a release, but that all goes out the window if there is any reason to think that the person had any form of impaired mental processes such as drugs or a head injury,

 

[Bee Happy]

BEM: Sing it Katy girl! Cops in Chicago are afraid to make arrests in a lot of the neighborhoods that are predominantly AA because if the cop is white, they get the race card thrown half the time. There are many, many cases where LE is accused of racial profiling when it is not the case at all, the perp really did it. But it's a hard one to fight when hundreds and thousands are yelling "racist".

Sometimes one really has no one to blame but themselves.

BBM

And you should have seen the way *I* was treated at my predominantly caucasian school. Or in the mostly white town I live in.

And profiling happens A LOT. I'm an educated mother and wife, and it has happened to me. It's happened to my uncles, my father, my cousins, my husband. Let's not pretend it doesn't happen. And nothing will ever make it okay, IMO.

 

[LolaMoon08]

This is the new rule for my 17-year-old niece... we are getting her mace and if it looks like someone is watching/following you... you run and you run as fast as you can. Don't even try calling 911 because I know you too much and if you drop the phone, you will stop and go back for it (she's just a kid and doesn't think like an adult). Just run! If that person happens to catch up to you, mace them! I don't care who they are! Mace them and run until you get to an area that has a lot of people or you are home.

Personally, I would not want her knocking on random people's doors. A young girl had been beaten and raped, and when she finally got away, she went to the first man she seen, and he too raped and beat her. :banghead: I believe there is a thread here somewhere for that case.

Anyways, we'll deal with who the person is and why he was following you later.