FL 17 y/o Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #12

[katydid23]

Please see the following post:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #9

HTH.

The leading causes of death for all young men ages 15 to 29, according to a 2006 Kaiser Family Foundation study, regardless of race or ethnicity, are unintentional injury (e.g., car accident, firearm or drowning), suicide and homicide. Not for young black men. The No. 1 cause of death in this demographic is murder. The homicide death rate for young (ages 15 to 24) African American men (85 per 100,000 persons) is three times the rate for young Hispanic men (30 per 100,000 population), the population group with the next highest homicide mortality rate. The rates for young Asian and young white males are 9.8 and 5 per 100,000, respectively.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...on_proves_blacks_are_under_attack_113659.html

In 2009, completed law-enforcement investigations showed that 352 African-Americans were killed by known whites — a category that includes Latinos — and 4,094 African-Americans were killed by African-Americans, according to FBI data.
http://news.yahoo.com/black-black-crime-widely-ignored-african-american-activists-190404331.html

Almost one half of the nation's murder victims that year [2005]were black and a majority of them were between the ages of 17 and 29. Black people accounted for 13% of the total U.S. population in 2005. Yet they were the victims of 49% of all the nation's murders. And 93% of black murder victims were killed by other black people, according to the same report.
Less than half of black students graduate from high school. The education system's failure is often a jail sentence or even a death sentence.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...7613183789698.html?mod=WSJ_hps_RIGHTTopCarous

"Blacks are under attack," said the Rev. Jesse Jackson, irresponsibly turning the Florida shooting death of an unarmed black teenager, Trayvon Martin, at the hands of Hispanic neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman into a barometer of black-white "race-relations."

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...on_proves_blacks_are_under_attack_113659.html

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Somewhat off topic but relevant to the recent discussion, in a way:

http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2012/mar/20/port-st-lucie-police-recover-gun-thought-to-park/?partner=RSS

Black on black shooting 3-14-12 resulting in death and no charges, as yet.

There are more recent updates but most do not go into the facts of the case.
2 Witnesses to Sportsman Park Shooting sought by police.
http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/region...-to-sportsmans-park-shooting-sought-by-police

And 2 guys in hoodies killed a person in Bobby Rush's district recently. Wonder if he'll issue an apology.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Govern...nmen-Kill-1-Wound-5-in-Rushs-Chicago-District

 

[rossva]

Not to mention Sanford is a suburb of the city with the THIRD highest crime rate in the US, Orlando. THIRD highest iin the US.

Well, there were multiple burglaries in his neighborhood. One home invasion. He may not have known what exactly he was going to walk in on the next time he walked into his house.

If you have a concealed carry permit, it's generally a better idea to keep your weapon on you instead of left in an unattended car. That's how a lot of criminals come into weapons.

There's also the notion that a gun is fairly ineffective when it's at home in your nightstand or gun safe.

 

[RANCH]

I don't know? I just keep going back to the stories of him drinking and becoming violent? People said he was a cool dude when he wasn't drinking and then turned into a completely different person when he was? It's just something to think about? Would he have ever even gotten out of the car if he was sober? Would he have confronted Trayvon? We still don't know who initiated contact?

It's just something I think should have been ruled out? He should have been tested, but it's too late now?

Ok, so being under the influence would make it easier for him to lose control, become angry and then initiate an attack on Trayvon. Thanks.

 

[Elley Mae]

The leading causes of death for all young men ages 15 to 29, according to a 2006 Kaiser Family Foundation study, regardless of race or ethnicity, are unintentional injury (e.g., car accident, firearm or drowning), suicide and homicide. Not for young black men. The No. 1 cause of death in this demographic is murder. The homicide death rate for young (ages 15 to 24) African American men (85 per 100,000 persons) is three times the rate for young Hispanic men (30 per 100,000 population), the population group with the next highest homicide mortality rate. The rates for young Asian and young white males are 9.8 and 5 per 100,000, respectively.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...on_proves_blacks_are_under_attack_113659.html

In 2009, completed law-enforcement investigations showed that 352 African-Americans were killed by known whites — a category that includes Latinos — and 4,094 African-Americans were killed by African-Americans, according to FBI data.
http://news.yahoo.com/black-black-crime-widely-ignored-african-american-activists-190404331.html

Almost one half of the nation's murder victims that year [2005]were black and a majority of them were between the ages of 17 and 29. Black people accounted for 13% of the total U.S. population in 2005. Yet they were the victims of 49% of all the nation's murders. And 93% of black murder victims were killed by other black people, according to the same report.
Less than half of black students graduate from high school. The education system's failure is often a jail sentence or even a death sentence.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...7613183789698.html?mod=WSJ_hps_RIGHTTopCarous

"Blacks are under attack," said the Rev. Jesse Jackson, irresponsibly turning the Florida shooting death of an unarmed black teenager, Trayvon Martin, at the hands of Hispanic neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman into a barometer of black-white "race-relations."

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...on_proves_blacks_are_under_attack_113659.html

I love facts

 

[OneLove]

If you listen to the 911 call you will hear that GZ only said he was black after TM turned to face hime, how could he know he was black before. When GZ was asked the first time GZ said he couldn't/didn't know at that time. jmo

No, he 'thought' he was black from the git go. He CONFIRMED it after Trayvon faced him.

 

[m00c0w]

This is the new rule for my 17-year-old niece... we are getting her mace and if it looks like someone is watching/following you... you run and you run as fast as you can. Don't even try calling 911 because I know you too much and if you drop the phone, you will stop and go back for it (she's just a kid and doesn't think like an adult). Just run! If that person happens to catch up to you, mace them! I don't care who they are! Mace them and run until you get to an area that has a lot of people or you are home.

Personally, I would not want her knocking on random people's doors. A young girl had been beaten and raped, and when she finally got away, she went to the first man she seen, and he too raped and beat her. :banghead: I believe there is a thread here somewhere for that case.

Anyways, we'll deal with who the person is and why he was following you later.

While pepper spray/mace is a very good deterrent if someone sees it on a keychain, you should emphasize that her primary goal is to get away. Pepper spray and mace are effective tools if used properly and in the right settings, but they also have potentially disastrous side effects. One of the biggest ones is cross-contamination. If the person she sprays is on drugs or intoxicated, there is a very real chance that she'll just piss that person off and get some blowback from the spray herself.

I've been through Level 1 OC contamination due to my job, which is having it sprayed in the eyes/along the eyebrow line. I then had to run through an obstacle course with a nifty little baton and beat on various people and demonstrate various takedown moves. Keep in mind, this is while I've been sprayed in the face with OC spray. It seriously opened my eyes (pun not intended) as to how both effective and ineffective it can be. While I was in pain (for about an hour after, actually), I was not really inhibited from doing anything. If pain receptors are dulled due to intoxication of some description, I can see that being a bad problem.

I'm really not sure how such a thing would take place for civilians, but I'd see about some sort of self defense course (maybe the local PD has one) where they go into pepper spraying techniques and how to use it effectively, when to use it, etc. To me, it's also very important to realize what you have in case you do accidentally get some backspray in your face. Once you've been there, you know what to expect and can think more clearly if/when it actually happens.

I can say, however, that I've also been tased and I'd rather be tased than sprayed. JMO

 

[csziggy]

You know what is funny to me? Everyone, on both sides, wanted this test done. No one cared that Trayvon wasn't ever going to be able to give a sample before? Now that it has come back that these experts say it was not Zimmerman, people are going to want to dispute it? If it had come back as Zimmerman's voice, according to these experts, we'd have people saying... "SEE!! It WAS him!!" Not one word about how Trayvon was unable to give a sample. It would have been taken as gospel.

I'm not saying I believe these "experts?" I'd need to do a lot more research on who they are and what other cases they have done this for, but I'm just pointing out the obvious.

I'd consider this a preliminary finding. We don't know if the recording is so bad that once they do get a recording of Trayvon's voice, it may not match, either. If that happens, they get to start from zero.

One thing is significant IMO - both recordings, the one of Zimmerman's voice and the one of the screaming, are from the SPD recordings. Any defects in quality might be similar. A sample of Trayvon's voice from another source could have different defects that might affect the comparison.

But I am not an expert and this is JMO.

 

[LambChop]

EXACTLY. Someone said it was only 7pm so there would be no reason to be suspicious. And I answered that many burglaries take place at that time,as do casings.

At NO TIME did I imply that TM was burglarizing or casing, only that some people do that at 7 pm or so.

Just to clear up any confusion, like you said.

Most breakins happen during the day when people are at work. At 7pm people are home finshing up dinner or the dishes. Or running to the store which both TM and GZ were doing. Had TM been on his way out, he'd still be alive. jmo

 

[Donjeta]

If you listen to the 911 call you will hear that GZ only said he was black after TM turned to face hime, how could he know he was black before. When GZ was asked the first time GZ said he couldn't/didn't know at that time. jmo

If he didn't even know that TM was black at the time, I take it that he hadn't seen TM's face. Why was he even calling 911 then?


How could GZ have known that TM was a suspicious black kid who didn't belong there if GZ hadn't even had a good look? It could have been the 15-year old boy from Swedish-German grandparents who lives at number 1670.

 

[flourish]

The leading causes of death for all young men ages 15 to 29, according to a 2006 Kaiser Family Foundation study, regardless of race or ethnicity, are unintentional injury (e.g., car accident, firearm or drowning), suicide and homicide. Not for young black men. The No. 1 cause of death in this demographic is murder. The homicide death rate for young (ages 15 to 24) African American men (85 per 100,000 persons) is three times the rate for young Hispanic men (30 per 100,000 population), the population group with the next highest homicide mortality rate. The rates for young Asian and young white males are 9.8 and 5 per 100,000, respectively.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...on_proves_blacks_are_under_attack_113659.html

In 2009, completed law-enforcement investigations showed that 352 African-Americans were killed by known whites — a category that includes Latinos — and 4,094 African-Americans were killed by African-Americans, according to FBI data.
http://news.yahoo.com/black-black-crime-widely-ignored-african-american-activists-190404331.html

Almost one half of the nation's murder victims that year [2005]were black and a majority of them were between the ages of 17 and 29. Black people accounted for 13% of the total U.S. population in 2005. Yet they were the victims of 49% of all the nation's murders. And 93% of black murder victims were killed by other black people, according to the same report.
Less than half of black students graduate from high school. The education system's failure is often a jail sentence or even a death sentence.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...7613183789698.html?mod=WSJ_hps_RIGHTTopCarous

"Blacks are under attack," said the Rev. Jesse Jackson, irresponsibly turning the Florida shooting death of an unarmed black teenager, Trayvon Martin, at the hands of Hispanic neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman into a barometer of black-white "race-relations."

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...on_proves_blacks_are_under_attack_113659.html

<modsnip>

I'm still failing to see what this has to do with TM.

 

[Elley Mae]

No, he 'thought' he was black from the git go. He CONFIRMED it after Trayvon faced him.

That is your opinion and not fact

 

[OneLove]

The leading causes of death for all young men ages 15 to 29, according to a 2006 Kaiser Family Foundation study, regardless of race or ethnicity, are unintentional injury (e.g., car accident, firearm or drowning), suicide and homicide. Not for young black men. The No. 1 cause of death in this demographic is murder. The homicide death rate for young (ages 15 to 24) African American men (85 per 100,000 persons) is three times the rate for young Hispanic men (30 per 100,000 population), the population group with the next highest homicide mortality rate. The rates for young Asian and young white males are 9.8 and 5 per 100,000, respectively.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...on_proves_blacks_are_under_attack_113659.html

In 2009, completed law-enforcement investigations showed that 352 African-Americans were killed by known whites — a category that includes Latinos — and 4,094 African-Americans were killed by African-Americans, according to FBI data.
http://news.yahoo.com/black-black-crime-widely-ignored-african-american-activists-190404331.html

Almost one half of the nation's murder victims that year [2005]were black and a majority of them were between the ages of 17 and 29. Black people accounted for 13% of the total U.S. population in 2005. Yet they were the victims of 49% of all the nation's murders. And 93% of black murder victims were killed by other black people, according to the same report.
Less than half of black students graduate from high school. The education system's failure is often a jail sentence or even a death sentence.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...7613183789698.html?mod=WSJ_hps_RIGHTTopCarous

"Blacks are under attack," said the Rev. Jesse Jackson, irresponsibly turning the Florida shooting death of an unarmed black teenager, Trayvon Martin, at the hands of Hispanic neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman into a barometer of black-white "race-relations."

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...on_proves_blacks_are_under_attack_113659.html

And what does this bird walk have to do with GZ killing Trayvon? I'm truly mystified. If this were MY son, or nephew, what would ANY kind of extraneous figures and statistics mean?

ONE person shot and killed one other person in this case. Please, authorities, let us see the PERTINENT facts!

 

[raeann]

You know what is funny to me? Everyone, on both sides, wanted this test done. No one cared that Trayvon wasn't ever going to be able to give a sample before? Now that it has come back that these experts say it was not Zimmerman, people are going to want to dispute it? If it had come back as Zimmerman's voice, according to these experts, we'd have people saying... "SEE!! It WAS him!!" Not one word about how Trayvon was unable to give a sample. It would have been taken as gospel.

I'm not saying I believe these "experts?" I'd need to do a lot more research on who they are and what other cases they have done this for, but I'm just pointing out the obvious.

I think there may still be a possibility of a sample of Trayvon's voice....a voice mail message on someone's phone would most likely do fine, a recorded school play or project presentation, a video on someone's phone, etc.

HOWEVER, the results from the comparison with GZ's voice are so definitive that it isn't really necessary now to compare to TM's, as we can assume that no one else was out there screaming for help.

jmo

 

[RANCH]

Not that you fear nothing, but the plain fact is that the law and medicine recognizes that if you are under the influence you don't think the same way that you do when you are not, your mental faculties are impaired, and the self defense claim insists that you be in fear of your life or great bodily injury and that it be fear that a reasonble person would have....otherwise a paranoid person who is afraid of everything could shoot you and it would be self defense. How do you decide what is reasonable if the person has impaired mental faculties if they are the only one left standing to tell the tale?

So even if an attack upon a person may allow for the use of deadly force in self-defense, if the victim of the attack is under the influence of something and can't fully understand the threat, then self-defense would not be allowed? Is that what your saying?

 

[OneLove]

That is your opinion and not fact

It's in the 911 call; take a listen. I might add, it's in GZ's OWN VOICE.

 

[uvamerica]

bump


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From this point on, we will no longer allow discussion of Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, or the Black Panther protest(s). There are way too many <modsnips> and timeouts to continue this discussion. We will allow MSM links to such protests, but no discussion.

We need to stick to the facts of this case and that's our discussion here. Please, we ask that you do what you do best - SLEUTH THE CASE.

Blogs and Twitter links and discussion of them are allowed only if it's an approved WS link or a link from main stream media (MSM).

Please post media links here: Trayvon Martin Shooting Media Thread - NO DISCUSSION - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


Tricia will be discussing the Trayvon Martin case on Websleuths Radio tomorrow evening and you're invited to call in and join her on the show, which will include the discussion of the protests you cannot discuss here.

 

[rotterdam]

I asked an ER doctor who gave me the politically correct response of...."EMS has a precise protocol to evaluate the possibility of any type of head injury. They would complete that immediately and if there was any possibility of injury they would inform the police who would then have transported him to the ED whether he wanted to go or not."

If you are arrested, I do think they can take you to a hospital without your permission. GZ was not arrested ,just detained. Wonder if that would make a difference. JMO

 

[katydid23]

So WHAT? this has to do with whether Trayvon's murder was justifiable or not, HOW???

It does not mean that his killing was justified. Not at all.

But when black males are killed and killing at eight times the national average, statistically, then people are going to be suspicious and fearful. And it is disingenuous for the black leaders to ignore this level of violence and just proclaim whites as racists. Maybe the fact that the neighborhood had been burglarized eight times recently would have a bearing on the watchman's suspicions. The black leaders need to acknowledge and deal with this cultural life trend because it is partially responsible for this problem of racially profiling. We have some very violent local gangs in my city. I am not going to pretend that black kids in baggy pants and hoodies do not frighten me at night.
As do any gangster looking thugs, white or asian or hispanic.

 

[m00c0w]

It's in the 911 call; take a listen. I might add, it's in GZ's OWN VOICE.

You can tell what direction a person is facing from a telephone call? Interesting.