FL 17 y/o Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #12

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Some are flat out arrested, but there have been cases where they are simply being detained until the police can decide if charges are going to be filed, or an arrest made. In some cases they do not arrest until they have decided that there is enough evidence to sustain the charges because once they have arrested someone the clock starts on the speedy trial statute. Occasionally they are only detained because they would be going in the drunk tank if they were not injured, and of course sometimes the police will cut them some slack on that, or the other person decides not to press charges, so yes, on occasion sometimes they are only detained but if they are in police custody and they are injured the police are going to bring them to us because they are not going to assume any liability for an injured person. If they are either detained or arrested makes no difference at that point LE is responsible for their welfare.
You mention them being thrown in the drunk tank - as I understand it, that would be a reason for them to be mandated to get medical treatment. They're not of a sound state of mind. Is it possible that a large number of these individuals that were only detained were intoxicated or otherwise unable to make rational decisions for themselves, leading to obligatory medical treatment?
 
I posted those statistic because I was asked by a mod to do so.

My kids are half black. So those statistics mean a lot to me. My son has eight times the liklihood of being murdered than his white cousins do. That is PERTINENT, imo.

As long as people do not misuse or misinterpret this to mean that GZ was justified in suspecting and in stalking Trayvon because he was black, fine. Would you want YOUR kids to be suspected, stalked, and shot because being 1/2 black makes them more statistically likely to be robbing houses than to be walking home?

I cannot begin to fathom how frightening this incident is for parents of black children everywhere. If you can't let them walk to a store and back for fear of them being shot down, JUSTIFIABLY so according to many people, how can they even sleep at night?
 
Trayvon Martin Case: George Zimmerman Was 'Jekyll And Hyde,' Former Co-Worker Says
this was on AOL.com/news from Huffington post.
This is what I was asking about yesterday.........about GZ 'emotional' personality,
.” The Daily News said Zimmerman earned $50 to $100 a night for the parties. He was fired for being too aggressive with patrons.
Trayvon Martin Case: George Zimmerman Was 'Jekyll And Hyde,' Former Co-Worker Says
Posted: 03/30/2012 6:36 pm

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The two faces of George Zimmerman. Left, a mugshot of Zimmerman from 2005. Right, a more recent photo. .1,4208927511,969Get Black Voices Alerts:

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.Follow: Video, Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman, Trayvon Martin Case, Trayvon Martin Death, Trayvon Martin George Zimmerman, Trayvon Martin, Trayvon-Martin-Investigation, Black Voices News .In a week of leaked high school disciplinary records, police reports and police station surveillance video in the war over public perception of Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman, more details have emerged about Zimmerman’s history of violence.

Zimmerman, the 28-year-old Sanford, Fla., neighborhood watch volunteer who shot the unarmed 17-year-old Martin to death last month, was fired from a job securing illegal house parties for “being too aggressive,” according to the New York Daily News, which quoted a former colleague of Zimmerman’s. According to the co-worker, Zimmerman worked for two agencies that provided security for house parties from 2001 to 2005.

“Usually he was just a cool guy,” said the former co-worker, who the newspaper didn't name. “But it was like Jekyll and Hyde. When dude snapped, he snapped.” The Daily News said Zimmerman earned $50 to $100 a night for the parties. He was fired for being too aggressive with patrons.

“He had a temper and he became a liability
He picked her up and threw her. It was pure rage. She twisted her ankle.
Some of Zimmerman’s neighbors said he had a history of being overly aggressive and followed people whom he thought appeared suspicious back to their homes.
“It was also made known that there had been several complaints about George Zimmerman and his tactics" in his neighborhood watch role.






http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...ing-grid7|hp-laptop|dl2|sec1_lnk3&pLid=148197
And I think that someone mentioned the credibility of the article was dubious because everyone is unnamed and generally people working as bouncers have to be 21.
 
Still, I bet if you take a representative sample of hoodie wearing people and ask them what they're doing at any given time, you'd find that a large percentage of them are just walking down the street minding their business or otherwise not engaging in any criminal activity.
 
I agree that he should have been tested. Do you know if GZ was under the influence of drugs/alcohol would that automatically mean that a self-defense claim is invalid?

IIRC. the SYG statute has that the person responsible for the homicide cannot be engaged in anything illegal. So depending what was in his system, if any, one can just wonder.
,
 
to a point but the problem, as I see it, that making these decisions on the base of appearance is often wrong which is part of why real police don't do it, don't "profile" in that way.

For example, Columbine and trench coats. Turns out that media narrative was false. The "trench coat mafia" is a well known and popular idea but a complete misconception itself.

The Trench Coat Mafia was a nonviolent school group of computer gamers established a few years before the shooting, Cullen said. They feuded with the jocks and wore black trench coats. Harris and Klebold were not members, Cullen concluded after talking to students at the school and analyzing police documents. Neither boy appeared in the Trench Coat Mafia's yearbook group photo in 1998.

http://articles.cnn.com/2009-04-20/justice/columbine.myths_1_trench-coat-mafia-columbine-high-school-school-shooting/3?_s=PM:CRIME

I guess my problem with all profiling is it really tells you little about the individual you are confronted with. I think profiling and making assumptions based on race, clothing is a fear based way to go about the world and, to me, can often lead you to make wrong conclusions about whether you are or aren't in actual danger as well as tend to overlook actual danger that doesn't look like you think it should.

I'd like to believe most of us could agree that GZ's conclusions that night were all pretty wrong and too easily influenced by surface appearance rather than actual criminal activity profiling. There's a difference between criminal profiling and racial profiling. Maybe I would be less critical of GZ if he had based any of his conclusions on real objective evidence of criminal intent like looking in windows, hiding behind bushes, checking doors and windows etc. But I seriously find all that he found "suspicious" about this boy to boil down to basically being he's a black boy walking in the rain with a hoodie and I don't personally know him. And, it's like he runs wild from there to "there's something wrong with him, on drugs or something, up to no good" because it all fits the narrative in had already constructed in his head and which I think we can agree was wrong.

Are we all subject to certain biases and prejudices? Sure, everyone makes judgments all day long. But I think many of us can recognize when it's based on a rational objectivity and when it's based on an irrational and perhaps erroneous assumption about an individual. Honestly, I hate tatoos, all of them, on anyone. I just do. I've learned though, that this "feeling" about tatoos needs to take into account the changing reality and I have been amazed by the type of people who end up having tatoos. But, I still tell my kids they'll never have tatoos while they live with me and they actually still dislike them too. But we keep our "feelings" about this personal attribute toned down and recognize that this is not some universal truth.

OK, have to go pick up Mexican and Chinese food for my guys who are watching final 4 b-ball. See ya later!:seeya::seeya:

I think the problem was that there were not a lot of teens outside walking around in hoodies or not. So he sees someone walking and he has never seen him before so he is going to check him out. Again, he is in his mind, a neighborhood watchman, so in his feeble mind, he is doing what he is supposed to do. I do not agree with his actions at all. I think he should have been arrested.

But to blame him for being suspicious of black teens is kind of unfair, imo. And my kids are both half black. But I am not going to pretend that there is no reason to be suspicious of a 6 ft 3 black kid walking at night in the neighborhood. There is a prominent and out of control culture which makes it seem cool to burglarize and jack cars and carry guns. And until these gangs are under control the people are going to be 'suspicious' of teens in hoodies.
 
As long as people do not misuse or misinterpret this to mean that GZ was justified in suspecting and in stalking Trayvon because he was black, fine. Would you want YOUR kids to be suspected, stalked, and shot because being 1/2 black makes them more statistically likely to be robbing houses than to be walking home?

I cannot begin to fathom how frightening this incident is for parents of black children everywhere. If you can't let them walk to a store and back for fear of them being shot down, JUSTIFIABLY so according to many people, how can they even sleep at night?

FWIW, white-on-black homicides are statistically the lowest occurring kind.
 
As long as people do not misuse or misinterpret this to mean that GZ was justified in suspecting and in stalking Trayvon because he was black, fine. Would you want YOUR kids to be suspected, stalked, and shot because being 1/2 black makes them more statistically likely to be robbing houses than to be walking home?

I cannot begin to fathom how frightening this incident is for parents of black children everywhere. If you can't let them walk to a store and back for fear of them being shot down, JUSTIFIABLY so according to many people, how can they even sleep at night?

NO I wouldn't want that and that is exactly my point. You think they havent experienced prejudice in their lifetimes? You think I am not worried about them? My son is 23 and wants to go into law enforcement. He is in his last year at CSUN with a Criminal Justice / Sociology double major. And he has many stories to tell.
 
And I think that someone mentioned the credibility of the article was dubious because everyone is unnamed and generally people working as bouncers have to be 21.

Illegal house parties were mentioned. Would illegal party organizers be very particular about obeying all the rules about who to hire?
 
You mention them being thrown in the drunk tank - as I understand it, that would be a reason for them to be mandated to get medical treatment. They're not of a sound state of mind. Is it possible that a large number of these individuals that were only detained were intoxicated or otherwise unable to make rational decisions for themselves, leading to obligatory medical treatment?

I don't really have statistics as to how many were intoxicated and how many weren't. If there is some question, and the police simply want to talk to them to clairify things, and the person runs from them or slips and twists their ankle, it makes no difference as far as LE liability, once they are detained by the police in any capacity, LE is then responsible for their welfare, and if they suffer from lack of medical care then a lawsuit is not only a possibility but a very real probablitlity. If they hold you, even without charges and something happens to you because they denied you medical care it's their butt.
 
ironically, it's home to the happiest place on earth too.


Yes, we know. Orlando must be so proud of their town? Trayvon didn't live there though? Zimmerman did!
 
You mention them being thrown in the drunk tank - as I understand it, that would be a reason for them to be mandated to get medical treatment. They're not of a sound state of mind. Is it possible that a large number of these individuals that were only detained were intoxicated or otherwise unable to make rational decisions for themselves, leading to obligatory medical treatment?

RBBM
Like being nearly unconscious? I don't see how one can be conscious enough to be able to be considered competent at that moment to provide informed consent to refuse medical treatment and yet be so injured they are near barely conscious and moments away from brain damage or death...well, I suppose that's why GZ's brother probably isn't going to be chosen as a spokesperson for GZ's family any time soon. imo
 
Hey y'all! I've been at a softball tournament all day and have been away from my computer/phone.

Anything eventful happen today?
 
Still, I bet if you take a representative sample of hoodie wearing people and ask them what they're doing at any given time, you'd find that a large percentage of them are just walking down the street minding their business or otherwise not engaging in any criminal activity.

Just lookin about!
 
IIRC. the SYG statute has that the person responsible for the homicide cannot be engaged in anything illegal. So depending what was in his system, if any, one can just wonder.
,

You make a good point. GZ was driving his truck right before the shooting. If he was showing any signs of impairment officers could have tested him for a possible DWI/DUI.
 
Still, I bet if you take a representative sample of hoodie wearing people and ask them what they're doing at any given time, you'd find that a large percentage of them are just walking down the street minding their business or otherwise not engaging in any criminal activity.

Exactly. But anyone who lives in an urban area can USUALLY tell the difference between a group of kids wearing hoodies to skateboard in the park or walk to the movies as opposed to the gangbangers wanting to avoid being detected by video cams. You can spot the differences, imo.
 
I posted those statistic because I was asked by a mod to do so.

My kids are half black. So those statistics mean a lot to me. My son has eight times the liklihood of being murdered than his white cousins do. That is PERTINENT, imo.

PLEASE PLEASE never say those words not ever. BBM
My grandkids are also but I blieve that we must always say
they are safe.
And gathering information is important.
Bless your kids :beats:
 
As long as people do not misuse or misinterpret this to mean that GZ was justified in suspecting and in stalking Trayvon because he was black, fine. Would you want YOUR kids to be suspected, stalked, and shot because being 1/2 black makes them more statistically likely to be robbing houses than to be walking home?

I cannot begin to fathom how frightening this incident is for parents of black children everywhere. If you can't let them walk to a store and back for fear of them being shot down, JUSTIFIABLY so according to many people, how can they even sleep at night?

Ok, fast moving thread, hence the quote instead of ETA:

My wording was not good. What I meant to say is that that many people could suspect, stalk, and shoot your kids because they've seen (and can quote) statistics showing a much greater likelihood they are there to rob than a white kid would be.
 
Hey y'all! I've been at a softball tournament all day and have been away from my computer/phone.

Anything eventful happen today?

Orlando Sentinel had TWO separate experts do voice analysis on the screams that were taped. BOTH of them said that it is positively NOT George Zimmerman who is screaming for help.
 
Hey y'all! I've been at a softball tournament all day and have been away from my computer/phone.

Anything eventful happen today?

NO it is weekend kimmy.
Nothing is going to happen accept going in circles LOL :floorlaugh:

No so sure about the experts coming out on the weekend so I will hold off
buying that one a this stage till the week comes.
 
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