FL 17 y/o Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #12

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I don't really have statistics as to how many were intoxicated and how many weren't. If there is some question, and the police simply want to talk to them to clairify things, and the person runs from them or slips and twists their ankle, it makes no difference as far as LE liability, once they are detained by the police in any capacity, LE is then responsible for their welfare, and if they suffer from lack of medical care then a lawsuit is not only a possibility but a very real probablitlity. If they hold you, even without charges and something happens to you because they denied you medical care it's their butt.
I realize I may catch some flak for suggesting this, but... Everyone goes on about how incompetent SPD is... Why does that only appear to be relevant when it supports one side of the story? Could one of the many avenues of possibility that night be that SPD screwed the pooch on it?
 
But remember, EVE stole the apple wearing nothing but a leaf.

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh: True! Maybe we should all just go naked? Clothes do nothing but get us humans in trouble!
 
to a point but the problem, as I see it, that making these decisions on the base of appearance is often wrong which is part of why real police don't do it, don't "profile" in that way.

For example, Columbine and trench coats. Turns out that media narrative was false. The "trench coat mafia" is a well known and popular idea but a complete misconception itself.



http://articles.cnn.com/2009-04-20/justice/columbine.myths_1_trench-coat-mafia-columbine-high-school-school-shooting/3?_s=PM:CRIME

I guess my problem with all profiling is it really tells you little about the individual you are confronted with. I think profiling and making assumptions based on race, clothing is a fear based way to go about the world and, to me, can often lead you to make wrong conclusions about whether you are or aren't in actual danger as well as tend to overlook actual danger that doesn't look like you think it should.

I'd like to believe most of us could agree that GZ's conclusions that night were all pretty wrong and too easily influenced by surface appearance rather than actual criminal activity profiling. There's a difference between criminal profiling and racial profiling. Maybe I would be less critical of GZ if he had based any of his conclusions on real objective evidence of criminal intent like looking in windows, hiding behind bushes, checking doors and windows etc. But I seriously find all that he found "suspicious" about this boy to boil down to basically being he's a black boy walking in the rain with a hoodie and I don't personally know him. And, it's like he runs wild from there to "there's something wrong with him, on drugs or something, up to no good" because it all fits the narrative in had already constructed in his head and which I think we can agree was wrong.

Are we all subject to certain biases and prejudices? Sure, everyone makes judgments all day long. But I think many of us can recognize when it's based on a rational objectivity and when it's based on an irrational and perhaps erroneous assumption about an individual. Honestly, I hate tatoos, all of them, on anyone. I just do. I've learned though, that this "feeling" about tatoos needs to take into account the changing reality and I have been amazed by the type of people who end up having tatoos. But, I still tell my kids they'll never have tatoos while they live with me and they actually still dislike them too. But we keep our "feelings" about this personal attribute toned down and recognize that this is not some universal truth.

OK, have to go pick up Mexican and Chinese food for my guys who are watching final 4 b-ball. See ya later!:seeya::seeya:

Botwynmom, I agree and appreciate what you're saying here. When I was a teenager, I was sent to see the school counselor, where she expressed concern about my peace-sign earring. It's my humble opinion that adults in every era view the trends of their era's teenagers to be objectionable. I cringed when I read the trench-coat stuff, as some of my high-school friends were considered suspect when they wore their trench-coats to high school back about a decade before the Columbine incident even occurred.

moo. sorry if I'm getting off topic. Luckily my friend is on her way over, so I'll actually be doing something besides reading here for a while. So ya'll can get a break from me:) LOL
 
Exactly. But anyone who lives in an urban area can USUALLY tell the difference between a group of kids wearing hoodies to skateboard in the park or walk to the movies as opposed to the gangbangers wanting to avoid being detected by video cams. You can spot the differences, imo.

Yeah, maybe... Usually being the operative word, meaning that sometimes they'd be wrong. The accuracy of the assessment would depend on the amount of observable behavior other than the hoodie.

If it's just some strangers that you see on the street for a brief while and never learn anything more about them one could be very wrong and never realize it.

If GZ hadn't killed TM he might never have known that TM had iced tea and skittles in his pocket and was returning home from the corner shop.
 
:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh: True! Maybe we should all just go naked? Clothes do nothing but get us humans in trouble!

I'm not even going to get into discussions as to how naked humans could manage to differentiate themselves LOL.

love ya, Lola:)
 
Orlando Sentinel is reporting two independant voice analysists (sp?) have determined the screaming for help on the tape is NOT George Zimmerman. Link is OrlandoSentinel.com. One of them has an impressive CV and testifies and has gotten convictions based on voice analysis.
 
Exactly. But anyone who lives in an urban area can USUALLY tell the difference between a group of kids wearing hoodies to skateboard in the park or walk to the movies as opposed to the gangbangers wanting to avoid being detected by video cams. You can spot the differences, imo.

BBM

And I think that GZ can spot the difference when he sees someone
just walking or walking and looking suspicious,
even though he can also be wrong. HE CAN spot the difference
 
NO it is weekend kimmy.
Nothing is going to happen accept going in circles LOL :floorlaugh:

No so sure about the experts coming out on the weekend so I will hold off
buying that one a this stage till the week comes.

Oh.Ok.
Wasn't the rally today at the Police Station? Or is it tomorrow?
 
So sorry Katydid23, I still have to say " so WHAT?".

So maybe GZ was suspicious. Maybe he was JUSTIFIABLY suspicious. That's a far cry from justifiable homicide. Just because you are SUSPICIOUS you are not entitled to kill. Neither are you entitled to stalk.

I AGREE. I have said all along he had no right to get out of the car and follow him with a gun.

But that is not my point. My point has been that as long as we are going to do this national protest march, that we should actually deal with the MAJOR cause of death in black community and also the major REASON for racial profiling. If the activists want people to stop 'profiling' then they are going to have to rein in the culture. As long as the black young males are perpetrated crime at 8 times the national average, there is going to be profiling.
 
ironically, it's home to the happiest place on earth too.

I think Tampa is the happiest place on Earth? Busch Gardens new Cheetah rollercoaster is better than any rollercoaster anywhere in Orlando! This is coming from a huge Hulk and Dueling Dragons fan!

City Walk's Margarittaville and Bob Marley clubs are the bomb though? I just have horrible thoughts when I get close to Universal Studios? It's just not the same anymore.

I know there is a lot of crime in the Orlando area though. Everytime I've been up there and watched their local news. There's so much more to Orlando than Theme Parks. There's a whole nother world lurking around the parks.

It's like people who only look at Miami as South Beach? If they only knew!
 
I realize I may catch some flak for suggesting this, but... Everyone goes on about how incompetent SPD is... Why does that only appear to be relevant when it supports one side of the story? Could one of the many avenues of possibility that night be that SPD screwed the pooch on it?

Lord Have Mercy YES, and Yes again. IF they had a story that GZ's head had been hit against the concrete, and if there was ANY evidence, even the smallest suggestion of evidence that that did in fact happen they they screwed the pooch hard without vasaline. And even worse, if they did not document his actual injuries....a person with a closed head injury can appear just fine, lucid with no problems, and then suddenly begin to seize, or simply keel over and die just that quick....and they were taking a chance on that happening. With some injuries they might wait to take the person, broken thumb, twisted ankle, something like that but never never never with a head injury....I can't wait to see if LE is going to dispute that GZ ASKED for medical attention and admit that they just didn't give it to him, I would not place any heavy bets on that one myself.

Just depends on how bad you think they really were that night IMO JMHO and stuff.
 
I can't help but be very sad tonight knowing that Trayvon was probably looking forward to the college hoops on tonight and the championship coming up on Monday night. As tall as he was, I wonder if he loved to play basketball? Such a tragedy. God bless his family!




~jmo~
 
I'm not even going to get into discussions as to how naked humans could manage to differentiate themselves LOL.

love ya, Lola:)

hahahahaha, oh my (wipes tears from eyes) well we would not have to worry so much about those people who wear expensive stuff....but I bet there would be a WHOLE lotta people on diets and in the gymn.....
 
I'm not even going to get into researching these voice analysists tonight? In my Scarlett O'Hara voice "I'll think about that tomorrow."

I'd rather get Lillian Glass' opinion on the body language in the video that was released.
 
Lord Have Mercy YES, and Yes again. IF they had a story that GZ's head had been hit against the concrete, and if there was ANY evidence, even the smallest suggestion of evidence that that did in fact happen they they screwed the pooch hard without vasaline. And even worse, if they did not document his actual injuries....a person with a closed head injury can appear just fine, lucid with no problems, and then suddenly begin to seize, or simply keel over and die just that quick....and they were taking a chance on that happening. With some injuries they might wait to take the person, broken thumb, twisted ankle, something like that but never never never with a head injury....I can't wait to see if LE is going to dispute that GZ ASKED for medical attention and admit that they just didn't give it to him, I would not place any heavy bets on that one myself.

Just depends on how bad you think they really were that night IMO JMHO and stuff.

Like Natasha Richardson, they did want to take her to hospital, and I believe an ambulance did come.
she said she is fine and would just lay down for a while, but refused to go to the hospital.
Well she did lay down but she never got up.

GZ may have refused, they cannot force you
We dont know....
 
I wonder how well-known Zimmerman was among the patrol officers. I wonder if they might have been perturbed by his overzealousness and kind of treated him as more of an annoyance that night. From the videos, the more stout officer certainly looks like he's definitely not too amused by Zimmerman's presence. It's kind of like "Crap, I have to deal with this dude again."
 
Orlando Sentinel is reporting two independant voice analysists (sp?) have determined the screaming for help on the tape is NOT George Zimmerman. Link is OrlandoSentinel.com. One of them has an impressive CV and testifies and has gotten convictions based on voice analysis.

This one does sound impressive.

Tom Owen, forensic consultant for Owen Forensic Services LLC and chair emeritus for the American Board of Recorded Evidence,

Owen, a court-qualified expert witness and former chief engineer for the New York Public Library's Rodgers and Hammerstein Archives of Recorded Sound, is an authority on biometric voice analysis — a computerized process comparing attributes of voices to determine whether they match.

And it's interesting that it says that two different techniques were used;

Tom Owen, forensic consultant for Owen Forensic Services LLC and chair emeritus for the American Board of Recorded Evidence, used voice identification software to rule out Zimmerman. Another expert contacted by the Sentinel, utilizing different techniques, came to the same conclusion.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...cation-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty
 
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