FL 17 y/o Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #12

[uvamerica]

I have been a bit worried about that as well...and the only thing that will cover the EMT's keister is if they did in fact document that they saw no evidence of injury, no gash, abrasion or contusion to substantiate the claim that his head was hit against the concrete, or the ground.

Otherwise, he can claim that he had a concussion and was not able to think and remember, and that his statment is inherently unreliable.

I think that may be where they are headed IMO JMHO and stuff.

Boy do I hope GZ's statement was recorded by video/audio
(somehow with this case I think not). But if it was, it should answer many questions about his demeanor and injuries. Not to mention the shooting.

 

[flourish]

BBM

The experts did not have Trayvon's voice to compare but the results were so low on a match with GZ's they rule him out.

Wow, from the article:

The software compared that audio to Zimmerman's voice. It returned a 48 percent match. Owen said to reach a positive match with audio of this quality, he'd expect higher than 90 percent.
"As a result of that, you can say with reasonable scientific certainty that it's not Zimmerman," Owen says, stressing that he cannot confirm the voice as Trayvon's, because he didn't have a sample of the teen's voice to compare.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...cation-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty

Thanks for the link, csziggy!

 

[RANCH]

I still think they should have done a drug/alcohol test on Zimmerman that night.

I agree that he should have been tested. Do you know if GZ was under the influence of drugs/alcohol would that automatically mean that a self-defense claim is invalid?

 

[Emeralgem]

My husband laughed when he came in and I was watching the video of GZ walking into the SPD. He remembers how unsteady and nauseous **I** was when a horse knocked me down and I hit my head against a concrete wall. AND another time when a horse knocked me down and I hit my head against an oak root.

There is no way I could have stood like that and walked without assistance and my head only got knocked ONCE each time. Both times I did have mild concussions but it took a few days for me to get back feeling capable of dealing with the horses again.

For the record - the oak root did more damage to my head than the concrete wall. It actually crushed the outer bone of my skull slightly. Also, both times, the injury was lower on the skull than any of the video artifacts seen in the video of GZ at SPD.

Somewhat O/T.. Quite a few years ago I was walking to my car and somehow my feet came out from under me and I fell back on the concrete hitting my head.. I got up and thought to myself, Ok nothing is broken so I am good to go.. .. Got into my car and must have blacked out because I cannot recall how long I must have sat there.. When I finally came back around I did not know what day it was or what I was supposed to be doing... Kinda like when you wake up and can't remember what day it is....
My husband was inside watching a game on tv and didn't even know I had fallen so when I finally went back into the house I told him what happened.. He immediately took me to the hospital and when x-rayed they found I did have a concussion.. They kept me overnight for observation...For certain, I was not walking around like GZ was in that video we all saw...JMHO..

 

[csziggy]

I am not a first responder in that I don't do Ambulance duty, where I am people come to me, but, IF I were in that capacity, and someone told me a story about having their head hit concrete, and I saw any evidence of it at all a gash, an abrasion, a contusion any evidence whatsoever to substantiate that claim, then they would have to go to the hospital, simply because a person who has a concussion does not have the ability to give informed consent, because it interferes with your thought processes.

There is NO WAY that anyone is going to convince me that GZ was barely conscious a mere 35 minutes before that video tape was shot....IMO JMHO and stuff.

I've had four concussions - two where I was knocked unconscious and two where I wasn't. In all four cases when a medical professional heard that I had hit my head, I was not allowed to go anywhere until they did a full workup and examination to make sure that I was OK. Even then, they did not let me leave the facilities until they made sure that someone would be with me to monitor me for at least 24 hours to make sure that I would not lapse into a coma or have symptoms that would indicate pressure on the brain.

ALL of those concussions were long before the fairly recent realization of the subtle damages that brain injuries can have. Now, it seems that even a mild knock to the head is reason for CAT scans or MRIs to check for internal bleeding. At least that is what I see in the trauma shows on the Health Channel.

JMO

 

[LolaMoon08]

BBM

The experts did not have Trayvon's voice to compare but the results were so low on a match with GZ's they rule him out.

You know what is funny to me? Everyone, on both sides, wanted this test done. No one cared that Trayvon wasn't ever going to be able to give a sample before? Now that it has come back that these experts say it was not Zimmerman, people are going to want to dispute it? If it had come back as Zimmerman's voice, according to these experts, we'd have people saying... "SEE!! It WAS him!!" Not one word about how Trayvon was unable to give a sample. It would have been taken as gospel.

I'm not saying I believe these "experts?" I'd need to do a lot more research on who they are and what other cases they have done this for, but I'm just pointing out the obvious.

 

[flourish]

BBM

The lack of due process is what's troubling most people, I believe.

I know I'm troubled by the lack of due process when investigating this crime.

 

[Sensei]

I agree that he should have been tested. Do you know if GZ was under the influence of drugs/alcohol would that automatically mean that a self-defense claim is invalid?

I think it would be very difficult to claim that your fear was reasonable if you were walking around with a loaded gun under the influence of ANYTHING, If you have a gun I don't want you to be under the influence of bendryl,,,,IMO JMHO and stuff.

 

[OneLove]

Imo, the black on black crime rate is relevant. Rev Jackson said " Black males are being HUNTED." and he was implying that white racists were to blame. And that is not the case at all. Look at the statistics. They are not unfounded. Black males are eight times as likely to die in a violent manner and are responsible for the violence 90% of the time. My son is half black. He is well aware of this fact himself.

But this case is about ONE particular shooter and ONE particular dead boy. National statistics are irrelevant, only the facts of THIS case matter in this case.

 

[RANCH]

I think it would be very difficult to claim that your fear was reasonable if you were walking around with a loaded gun under the influence of ANYTHING, If you have a gun I don't want you to be under the influence of bendryl,,,,IMO JMHO and stuff.

So if your under the influence of something you fear nothing hence no self-defense. Thanks. This may be a good question for RH tomorrow.

 

[LolaMoon08]

I agree that he should have been tested. Do you know if GZ was under the influence of drugs/alcohol would that automatically mean that a self-defense claim is invalid?

I don't know? I just keep going back to the stories of him drinking and becoming violent? People said he was a cool dude when he wasn't drinking and then turned into a completely different person when he was? It's just something to think about? Would he have ever even gotten out of the car if he was sober? Would he have confronted Trayvon? We still don't know who initiated contact?

It's just something I think should have been ruled out? He should have been tested, but it's too late now?

 

[dsntslp]

Somewhat off topic but relevant to the recent discussion, in a way:

Port Saint Lucie Police recover gun thought connected to Sportsmans Park shooting.
http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2012/mar/20/port-st-lucie-police-recover-gun-thought-to-park/?partner=RSS

Black on black shooting 3-14-12 resulting in death and no charges, as yet.
A recent SYG case.

There are more recent updates but most do not go into the facts of the case.
2 Witnesses to Sportsman Park Shooting sought by police.
http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/region...-to-sportsmans-park-shooting-sought-by-police

 

[csziggy]

Somewhat O/T.. Quite a few years ago I was walking to my car and somehow my feet came out from under me and I fell back on the concrete hitting my head.. I got up and thought to myself, Ok nothing is broken so I am good to go.. .. Got into my car and must have blacked out because I cannot recall how long I must have sat there.. When I finally came back around I did not know what day it was or what I was supposed to be doing... Kinda like when you wake up and can't remember what day it is....
My husband was inside watching a game on tv and didn't even know I had fallen so when I finally went back into the house I told him what happened.. He immediately took me to the hospital and when x-rayed they found I did have a concussion.. They kept me overnight for observation...For certain, I was not walking around like GZ was in that video we all saw...JMHO..

Yes, it doesn't take much of a knock on the head to scramble brains! I'm glad you're OK.

O/T still:
I had one of those missing time concussions (I've had four total) - a horse fell with me. People saw me lying next to my horse, but it was a nice day, it looked as though I was letting my horse graze while I caught some rays. I woke up, leading my horse back to the barn about a quarter of a mile from where people had seen me lying down. When I got to the barn, the people there saw the grass stains on my face and realized how confused I was. They took me home and Mom took me for medical attention.

I've never regained the forty minutes of 'missing time' - I guess I was just lying there in that field! I'm very lucky the horse didn't run away. Maybe she was concussed, too - she had grass stains on her face, too.

 

[LolaMoon08]

but this case is about one particular shooter and one particular dead boy. National statistics are irrelevant, only the facts of this case matter in this case.

amen!!

 

[annalia]

If you listen to the 911 call you will hear that GZ only said he was black after TM turned to face hime, how could he know he was black before. When GZ was asked the first time GZ said he couldn't/didn't know at that time. jmo

I posted the 911 call earlier. That isn't true.

He says prior to Trayvon turning around that he looks black, when he was first asked, he never once said that he didn't know.

He repeated that he was black after Trayvon turned around.

He knew from the getgo that he was black.

JMHO

 

[spamelope]

Subject incident apparently happened years ago. And I presume before 2005 when there was no SYG statute. The self defense laws were pretty adequate prior to this very controversial SYG and its numerous apparent loopholes.
On scars when killing a person. I had a friend who killed a young person while driving. It was absolutely thru no fault of her own. She was never the same after that and it haunted her till her death.

Yes, this would have been in the early 70's. I'm sorry about your friend. It's so hard to have things that haunt you....

 

[uvamerica]

You know what is funny to me? Everyone, on both sides, wanted this test done. No one cared that Trayvon wasn't ever going to be able to give a sample before? Now that it has come back that these experts say it was not Zimmerman, people are going to want to dispute it? If it had come back as Zimmerman's voice, according to these experts, we'd have people saying... "SEE!! It WAS him!!" Not one word about how Trayvon was unable to give a sample. It would have been taken as gospel.

I'm not saying I believe these "experts?" I'd need to do a lot more research on who they are and what other cases they have done this for, but I'm just pointing out the obvious.

I'm sure if they asked they could find someone with a recorded message, or voice mail etc. from Trayvon.

 

[Emeralgem]

You know what is funny to me? Everyone, on both sides, wanted this test done. No one cared that Trayvon wasn't ever going to be able to give a sample before? Now that it has come back that these experts say it was not Zimmerman, people are going to want to dispute it? If it had come back as Zimmerman's voice, according to these experts, we'd have people saying... "SEE!! It WAS him!!" Not one word about how Trayvon was unable to give a sample. It would have been taken as gospel.

I'm not saying I believe these "experts?" I'd need to do a lot more research on who they are and what other cases they have done this for, but I'm just pointing out the obvious.

BBM.. Please know.... No disrespect intended but to me I don't find that funny.. Just sad and tragic.. I have no idea how this is all going to play out, but I pray this young man death is not in vain..JMHO

 

[Elley Mae]

I posted the 911 call earlier. That isn't true.

He says prior to Trayvon turning around that he looks black, when he was first asked, he never once said that he didn't know.

He repeated that he was black after Trayvon turned around.

JMHO

So do you believe then he went after him because he was black?

 

[Sensei]

So if your under the influence of something you fear nothing hence no self-defense. Thanks. This may be a good question for RH tomorrow.

Not that you fear nothing, but the plain fact is that the law and medicine recognizes that if you are under the influence you don't think the same way that you do when you are not, your mental faculties are impaired, and the self defense claim insists that you be in fear of your life or great bodily injury and that it be fear that a reasonble person would have....otherwise a paranoid person who is afraid of everything could shoot you and it would be self defense. How do you decide what is reasonable if the person has impaired mental faculties if they are the only one left standing to tell the tale?