FL - 17-yo Boy Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #2

[Belinda]

I can't believe this is even happening. The facts of this case are so clear cut. Zimmerman should not be free walking the streets. He is a danger to society in his quest to be a real cop. There was no reason at all for him to shoot and kill Trayvon. He ASSumed Trayvon was up to no good and the poor kid was just walking home from the store. This is a good case in point of what happens when one assumes.

 

[annalia]

This really stuck out to me when I read this last night.

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/index.html

Click on the link that says; Retreat at Twin Lakes Trespassing Issue
This is from the HOA to the media;

"The community is gated and they are requesting that we inform you that you are not allowed on property, unless invited by a resident. Please, be respectful of the community’s wishes."

Tray had EVERY right to be there as an invited guest by a resident.

It was 7:00, not 2AM. Why did GZ automatically assume that Trayvon was just another *advertiser censored***** up to no good?
Why didn't he ever give him the benefit of the doubt?
Why did he automatically assume that Tray having his hoodie up in the rain meant he was just another *advertiser censored****** that always got away?
Why wouldn't it ever occur to him that possibly the hoodie was up because it was raining at 7:00?
Why wouldn't he think it was possible that Tray was checking him out because it was GZ who was was following him and Tray was trying to figure out who it was?

There's no denying that GZ had his mind made up an no one was going to stop him from going after Trayvon. GZ's own words prove that.

JMHO

 

[annalia]

Zimmerman knew the layout of the complex far better than Trayvon. Why isn't it just as if not more likely that he cut through the units to head Trayvon off?

My bolding

From Trayvon's girfriend's account, isn't that what they think probably did happen? Tray was on the phone, thought he lost GZ but then GZ appeared again right behind him?

Tray started out running away, ( which should prove he wasn't looking to attack anyone) but that doesn't mean he was running the entire time, especially when he thought he lost GZ.
JMHO

 

[rossva]

I think her statement references the phone going dead, and she assumes that must be because Martin was pushed.

So whatever struggle took place was in a very short amount of time. Based on the girlfriend's statement and phone records, she heard the first push. Zimmerman says he was following Trayvon, and that he was running.

I think that this clears up who the aggressor was.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Zimmerman knew the layout of the complex far better than Trayvon. Why isn't it just as if not more likely that he cut through the units to head Trayvon off?

Because he still wouldn't have been able to catch him if Trayvon were running away, regardless of a shortcut. He'd have to be hiding and jump out of nowhere to grab him if Trayvon were running to escape.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

BBM

Whaa? :waitasec:

If GZ was looking for a confrontation (as people say he was) he would not care about race. He would confront anyone who "looked suspicious". Hence, if Trayvon were white it would not have mattered.

 

[rossva]

BBM Is that a fact, or your opinion?

I am normally a staunch supporter of LE, but in this case, actually a 13 yr old who has seen a couple of episodes of CSI could have done a better job of investigating. They DID NOT take GZ for a drug and alcohol test even though that is SOP in any death, they did NOT make a photgraphic or get a Dr report on the injuries that GZ supposedly sustained, and there is evidence that they actively attempted to sway or change witness statements to make them more favorable to GZ. THEN they decided there was not enough evidece to take to the Prosecutor...They did a really really bad job, a shoddy job, maybe even wilful negligence, and very possible worse

They could not possibly have made a decision based on the evidence because they really didn't collect a great portion of the evidence.

 

[annalia]

Because he still wouldn't have been able to catch him if Trayvon were running away, regardless of a shortcut. He'd have to be hiding and jump out of nowhere to grab him if Trayvon were running to escape.

Nowhere was it ever said that Trayvon was running the entire time.

His girlfriend said that she told Trayvon to run but he said he didn't want to, he would walk fast and that he thought he lost GZ. Then GZ was behind him again.

JMHO

 

[Sensei]

It's not reasonable at all. If this guy was so obsessed with being a cop-like neighborhood watch hero, as everyone claims, he would have jumped on any opportunity to use his "authority". Any teen would have been fine in that situation if he were looking for a confrontation.

There are NO calls to 911 where GZ mentions a white kid or a group of white kids....NONE, every call he mentions a black kid, and a group of black kids, and he had a history of confronting black kids, one from the neighborhood that he accused of stealing a bicycle....

He would NOT have been walking around if he had shot an unarmed white kid and claimed self defense. In his mind a group of black kids were the culprits, and that meant that EVERY black kid was the culprit, when you are a hammer everything looks like a nail. He was looking for theiving black kids and he saw a black kid, and was not picky that this was not one of THOSE black kids..

 

[annalia]

If GZ was looking for a confrontation (as people say he was) he would not care about race. He would confront anyone who "looked suspicious". Hence, if Trayvon were white it would not have mattered.

GZ's neighbor on JVM last night pretty much confirmed that it was because Trayvon was black.

In his attempt to defend GZ he said that in the past 15 months there were 8 burglaries and most of them were done by black kids.

JMHO

 

[rossva]

BBM. In what way? And if it is true about who his parents are, what could he or they do about it? Are they on the news throwing their weight around?

It has been mentioned on WS about George Zimmerman's parents occupations. I have not heard it on any television media. I am surprised that GVM or Vinnie hasn't mentioned it. I think it is clearly a conflict of interest.
>Zimmerman said his father was a magistrate for Virginia Supreme Court and mother was a deputy court clerk. He stated that he had the utmost respect for law enforcement and aspired to be an officer someday.<

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/rallies-continue-support-17-year-old-trayvon-marti/nLXJ7/

 

[Isabelle]

What exactly do you think would have happened then?

It would have been a big F'ing deal from the get go! The shooter would not be free.

 

[Velouria]

Because he still wouldn't have been able to catch him if Trayvon were running away, regardless of a shortcut. He'd have to be hiding and jump out of nowhere to grab him if Trayvon were running to escape.

Not necessarily. Trayvon told his girlfriend he didn't want to run, that he would walk fast. Zimmerman cuts him off and steps into his path. Trayvon decides to ask why he's being followed. According to TM's girlfriend, that's what happened.

Incidentally, the SPD never even bothered to contact the girlfriend and interview her. They were in possession of Trayvon's phone, yet they never bothered to check the call history and see if that might shed light on the investigation.

 

[Isabelle]

Wasn't a caller on the line to 911 at the time of the screams for help and the gunshot, which is audible during the call. That should help pin down the time!

 

[Marshmallow]

So how was it that GZ who outweighed Trayvon by 100 lbs caught up to him if Trayvon was just trying to get home/run away? Trayvon obviously stopped to confront GZ at some point.

it doesn't matter if Trayvon stopped, tripped or turned. Mr Zimmerman chose to create an unsafe situation. He chose to not follow the suggestions of the 911 operator, he chose to carry a weapon, he chose to get out of his vehicle, he chose to chase this young man, he chose to take the law into his own hands, he chose to play 'neighborhood watch guy' on his own, he chose to fire a weapon at an unarmed person. Mr Zimmerman was in no way a victim, he was the aggressor and he killed someone.

 

[Velouria]

BBM. In what way? And if it is true about who his parents are, what could he or they do about it? Are they on the news throwing their weight around?

If I may respectfully borrow your sig line here, Marshmallow...

somethings just make you go "hmmmm" others make you say "seriously dude...really??"​

 

[JeannaT]

Not necessarily. Trayvon told his girlfriend he didn't want to run, that he would walk fast. Zimmerman cuts him off and steps into his path. Trayvon decides to ask why he's being followed. According to TM's girlfriend, that's what happened.

Incidentally, the SPD never even bothered to contact the girlfriend and interview her. They were in possession of Trayvon's phone, yet they never bothered to check the call history and see if that might shed light on the investigation.

They had to get a warrant to look through the phone because according to LE, Trayvon's family refused them access without the warrant. I don't know how many days passed between them getting possession of the phone and being legally allowed to search it. They were able to obtain the warrant, before the close of the investigation, and I don't know what they did with the information they got from the phone.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Not to mention the following...

In 2005, George Zimmerman was twice accused of either criminal misconduct or violence.

That July, Zimmerman — 21 at the time — was at a bar near the University of Central Florida when a friend was arrested by state alcohol agents on suspicion of serving underage drinkers, according to an arrest report.

Zimmerman was talking with his friend, became profane and pushed an agent who tried to escort him away, the report said. Authorities said he was arrested after a short struggle.

Charged with resisting arrest without violence, he avoided conviction by entering a pretrial-diversion program, something common for first-time offenders.

A month later, court records show, a woman filed a petition for an injunction against Zimmerman, citing domestic violence. It's unclear what led to the petition, but Zimmerman responded by filing a petition of his own the following day.


Also of note from this article is this...

Capital One accused Zimmerman of failing to pay more than $1,000. He settled with the company for $2,135.82, records show, to cover his debts with interest, as well as attorney and court costs. However, the credit-card company soon reported that Zimmerman wasn't making the payments he had agreed to.

and last but certainly not least....
Records show Zimmerman is not the owner of the townhome where he lives in the gated Sanford community.

So it appears that Mr. Zimmerman is protecting a neighborhood in which he doesn't even own the property.

http://www.ky3.com/os-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-20120320,0,3736784.story?page=1

A charge-off on a credit card? He doesn't own the property he lives in? So that makes him a murderer??

 

[Velouria]

A charge-off on a credit card? He doesn't own the property he lives in? So that makes him a murderer??

No one claimed that makes GZ a murderer.

His actions that night make him a murderer, IMO.

BTW, a history of domestic violence and assaulting a police officer are hardly what I'd call a "squeaky clean" record.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

There are NO calls to 911 where GZ mentions a white kid or a group of white kids....NONE, every call he mentions a black kid, and a group of black kids, and he had a history of confronting black kids, one from the neighborhood that he accused of stealing a bicycle....

He would NOT have been walking around if he had shot an unarmed white kid and claimed self defense. In his mind a group of black kids were the culprits, and that meant that EVERY black kid was the culprit, when you are a hammer everything looks like a nail. He was looking for theiving black kids and he saw a black kid, and was not picky that this was not one of THOSE black kids..

Again, how do you know he wouldn't be walking around free? You're implying that the cops would care more about a white kid than a black kid...and would basically not care at all that a black kid was murdered? That's quite a baseless assumption. Where is the evidence that this is true?