FL - 17-yo Boy Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #2

[annalia]

Let's not forget that GZ sustained injuries so he was probably attacked. At least one witness saw this. Did he injure himself somehow?

Why is it that when it comes to Tray it's constantly being called an attack?

Would Tray not have the same rights and protection to defend himself against an unknown adult who was following him? That unknown adult who took it upon himself and made the choice to pursue and innocent kid? Any bumps or bruises on GZ somehow proves that Tray was the aggressor?

How many bruises and injuries did Tray have on him?

JMHO

 

[ScubaTwinn]

If only he had said he was with the Neighborhood Watch before asking what he was doing there. We probably wouldn't have a dead teenager. MOO.

 

[jjenny]

Why is it that when it comes to Tray it's constantly being called an attack?

Would Tray not have the same rights and protection to defend himself against an unknown adult who was following him? That unknown adult who took it upon himself and made the choice to pursue and innocent kid? Any bumps or bruises on GZ somehow proves that Tray was the aggressor? How many bruises did tray have?

How many bruises did Tray have on him?

JMHO

Obviously he had a right to defend himself. The law could apply to either of the people fighting. But one who is going to use to claim self-defense it is the one that comes out alive, for obvious reasons.

 

[rossva]

BBM. Exactly. The police didn't even know Zimmerman had a police record; how would they know what his parents did?

Until more info comes out it seems people are assuming all kinds of things IMO.His girlfriend assumes GZ threw the first punch,she did not see it or hear it so how can she know? I understand she was very upset but why did it take weeks for her to tell anyone she was on the phone to him at the time this all went on?People are assuming he did not get medical attention but how do you? Maybe Trayvon did not take kindly to a Hispanic man asking him what he was doing in the area,it is very possible he responded in a threatening manor.Assuming Police are protecting GZ because of his parents jobs in Virginia is a stretch IMO.Sorry but I am not hanging GZ on the info we have.

 

[mikeysmommom]

What if the Grand Jury meets and no charges are brought against GZ?

 

[CathyinTexas]

http://www.wftv.com/videos/news/interview-with-trayvon-martins-friend/vGb7p/

 

[rossva]

BBM. Absolutel;y NO way the girlfriend could know any of that. She couldn't have known Zimmerman had a gun, nor could she know Zimmerman pushed Martin to the ground.

IMO she has had plenty of time to be coached as to what she heard, what was said, and how she interpretred things to have happened.

I read all the speculative comments. I still don't think it matters if/that Trayvon was wrestling or fighting with GZ. A stranger with a gun just followed and pushed him to the ground, according to Trayvon's girlfriend. Of course, he is going to fight for his life. He was the citizen that had a right to stand his ground, not the other way around. GZ was clearly the aggressor here. I will add he is also a murderer in my opinion.

 

[annalia]

There's also less innocent looking pictures of him out there, but we never see those.

Is there a link to those pictures?

I thought I saw all of the pics of Trayvon, from all different times, i can't think of one where he looked guilty of anything.

JMHO

 

[daisy7]

They had to get a warrant to look through the phone because according to LE, Trayvon's family refused them access without the warrant. I don't know how many days passed between them getting possession of the phone and being legally allowed to search it. They were able to obtain the warrant, before the close of the investigation, and I don't know what they did with the information they got from the phone.

Do you have a link that says that Trayvon's family refused them access? From what has been reported, his family was asking for the phone and LE initially said they didn't have it.

 

[rossva]

If I may respectfully borrow your sig line here, Marshmallow...

"somethings just make you go "hmmmm" others make you say "seriously dude...really??"

Because she heard a change in his voice that means she heard the first push? I guess if you are the pusher, not the pushee, your voice doesn't change? I guess if you suddenly start walking fast, your voice doesn't change. I guess if you suddemly stop, turn around and confront some one your voice doesn't change?

No, because she said she heard a change in his voice....Therefore, she heard the first push.

 

[Velouria]

There's also less innocent looking pictures of him out there, but we never see those.

And what pictures do we see of George Zimmerman?

A mug shot.

'Nuff said.

 

[Intermezzo]

Thank you for all the posts.
I am so saddened by this case,..I am reading what is coming out...I have not been able to post.
I have been crying for this child and for his family.

We live in Seminole County, most of my shopping is done in that area, I keep seeing a young teenager walking in the rain after getting candy at the store and gets shot on the way back home...my heart breaks...

My own neighbor is a Sherriffs deputy, one night when he came home he noticed a young male acting suspicious, ..he called our local Police department (not Sanford Police btw) ..he did not engage the young man..he gave his report and let local LE handle the situation.

 

[Velouria]

I think people are so eager to have this guy arrested and charged they start making things up. Such as claiming a racial slur that apparently isn't there. Or that his parents are some big shots.

And what "people" would those be?

 

[jjenny]

And what pictures do we see of George Zimmerman?

A mug shot.

'Nuff said.

Believing something and proving it are two different things. Yes, GZ doesn't look sweet and cuddly and I am sure somebody could be scared of him if GZ followed them. But in this case they would have to prove GZ was the one who pushed first. How are they going to do it?

 

[daisy7]

I think those things were posted because people want to find every reason possible to hate this guy. A charge off on a card is not indicative of bad character imo. We don't know if he's a murderer or not. There is at least one witness saying he was being attacked.

That's the first I've heard of this. Do you have a link?

 

[SuziQ]

What if the Grand Jury meets and no charges are brought against GZ?

And what if they Grand Jury meets and there are charges brought? I'm not understanding your question.

 

[mikeysmommom]

If Trayvon has a record we will never see it because he is a juvenile.

 

[LambChop]

Looking into it and chasing down a kid with a loaded weapon are two entirely different things.

And according to the rules of Neighborhood Watch, GZ was NOT supposed to be carrying a weapon while patrolling the neighborhood. he was also supposed to step back and let LE do their job.

An innocent kid is dead here and the excuse is that in 15 months there were only 8 burglaries and they weren't even all done by black kids???? how many were actually committed by black kids, 4-5-6?

JMHO

If GZ were a police officer they would have taken his gun and he'd be on administrative leave until a formal investigation. Even an officer getting into a fight would not shoot a suspect. It's just not worth it as I'm sure GZ now realizes.

Seems to me GZ not following the rules by carrying a gun and not listening to LE when they told him to stay where he was is the reason this young man is dead. The responsibility for the death is his and his alone. He made the decision to carry the gun. He made the decision to chase TM. He made the decision to get close enough to have physical altercation stopping TM from getting to his destination which was his father's home and safety. He was a grown adult and took on the responsibility as a Neighborhood Watcher and he is the one who bought to this community a nightmare they will live with for years. The moment he pulled his gun he put the whole surrounding community at risk. The gun could have gone off and into a home an killed an innocent homeowner or their child instead of TM. What was he thinking? I think it is obvious he wasn't thinking at all, refused to follow directions from a police officer and clearly had his own agenda otherwise the incident would have never happened.

GZ saw no weapon, there was none. How does he claim self defense? If he were LE he'd be brought up on charges by now. I don't think he ever intended to murder TM but he certainly meant to shoot him. jmo

 

[Salem]

Obviously he had a right to defend himself. The law could apply to either of the people fighting. But one who is going to use to claim self-defense it is the one that comes out alive, for obvious reasons.

This is a good point and it definitely seems to be the way LE reads this ordinance, however, I see it differently.

GZ LOST his right to stand his ground when HE became the AGGRESSOR and after LE told him to stop. So really, the only person in this situation that had a right to stand his ground was Trayvon.

Someone mentioned early on that LE was failing to read their own statute with common sense. I think that is true. No where in that statute does it say you may follow and confront an individual and then shoot them if they fail to answer the way you think they should.

LE, and many talking heads, are using this "stand your ground" as an EXCUSE for LE's failure to fully investigate and uphold the laws of the state of Florida. It is just an excuse and in my opinion, it is a really poor excuse.

Salem

PS - I'm not yelling in those caps up there, just passionately stating my opinion.

 

[jjenny]

And what if they Grand Jury meets and there are charges brought? I'm not understanding your question.

If grand jury meets and charges are brought then GZ would go before a judge who gets to decide if there is enough to proceed with the trial, as far as I understand.