FL - 17-yo Boy Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #2

[HiHater]

Can anyone say no to a grand jury if summoned? I assumed if subpoened you would have to show up.

I think you would have to come in...or probably have a warrant issued. I'm not sure and would have to look into it.

I see no reason for her to refuse to testify though. That is the statement of some people who have twisted what was reported.

 

[annalia]

She was on the phone with him up to the point that GZ confronted him and asked TM what he was doing there. You don't think that's relevant?

Was a 16 year-old supposed to contact Sanford Police herself and demand they take her statement?

And the phone records corroborate her statement.

 

[jeffries]

No, I didn't. If my kids were in a condominium complex, and being followed by some guy in a very public place, and the guy said what are you doing here, my boys would have said what they were doing. "My stepmom lives here and I'm staying at her house". They would probably arrive at the house with tales of the *advertiser censored*hole who confronted them, and that would be that. My kids HAVE been confronted by neighborhood busybodies, and they have never attacked the person confronting them.

I fully believe GZ was a neighborhood nosy guy, and Tray attacked him. That's what I believe based on my own experience with having teenage boys and neighborhood watch.

I will say this one caveat, my neighborhood is white and my kids are white. So that may make some difference. On the other hand, Tray was a light black skinned man, and GZ had virtually the same exact skin color although he was black/hispanic mixed race.

I think the vast majority of 17 year olds would react to a total stranger's sudden stalking of them and then demanding "What are you doing here?" with trepidation and fear rather than rattling off the truth in a neat little sentence.

Also, to say that GZ and Trayvon had "virtually the same exact skin color" is really, really pushing it IMO.

 

[rotterdam]

So what if GZ was being attacked. GZ pursued a kid who had no idea whether GZ was a Jeffrey Dahmer or John Wayne Gacy. Don't we teach our kids to fight for their lives if they are accosted by a stranger? We know at minimum that GZ got out of his car with a loaded weapon and hunted this kid down.

Personally I think the reason Trayvon didn't run is because he had a gun drawn on him.

I do not think they would have gotten into a fight if Z has his gun drawn.
That said, Z also knew Tray did not have a gun or the fight would not have occurred. The drawing of gun was after the fight IMO.

 

[gitana1]

I know how you feel because I feel the same way about the girlfriend just coming out weeks later stating she was on the phone.She was on the phone but no way can she know what happened she was not there.Threats of violence by groups can not change the facts of what happened.We do not have enough FACTS as of yet IMO.

We only heard about her weeks later. There is nothing to suggest she only suddenly cam up with some story. The phone records prove she was indeed on the phone with him when he was attacked.

 

[HiHater]

But they had EVERY reason to believe he was SOMEWHERE out there - in a neghborhood he was unfamilar with. I'm sorry, but if my 17 year old was visiting in that situation I would at least drive around the neighbor hood looking for him, and sure as heck, if there was a commotion a mere 70 yards from my house I would have at least checked it out.

By the way, the people on the 911 tapes wouldn't go out of their house PRIOR to police arriving; it was during the process of the 911 calls they wouldn't go outside. Watch what little video (I am trying to find links from http://www.cfnews13.com/ now but have to run out)) there is of the scene that night and there are some views of civilians standing around police cars and IIRC crime scene tape.

Driving around or being "nosy" at the crime scene would not have brought their son back. It would not have changed the course of the investigation.
Trayvon lay dead whether or not his parents drove around looking for him.

The police deal with homicides at least once a month/year. Trayvon's family dealt with a homicide (presumably) once in their lives.

Whose actions should we be faulting?

Logic.

 

[chefmom]

It may not be unusual to here sirens in that neighborhood, police, fire department, etc. Mr. Martin could have heard them but ignored them not realizing they were that close. When TM did not come home it may have occurred to him that he heard the sirens earlier and that may be why he called LE to see if his son had been arrested. Not everyone runs out the door when they hear sirens and from the looks of the condos Mr. Martin's place may have been one street over and his view was probably blocked to what was happening. Right in front of my house, I'd be looking, yes, but a street over from me, no. It's just a guess.

Thanks, LC. That makes sense. I guess I had it in my head from a picture I saw on here somewhere that the Martin home was just a few doors away from the yard where Trayvon was shot. And that was making me wonder why the little brother didn't hear the gunshot or sirens or anything. Do we know if Trayvon's father was home at the time of the shooting?

 

[Velouria]

Driving around or being "nosy" at the crime scene would not have brought their son back. It would not have changed the course of the investigation.
Trayvon lay dead whether or not his parents drove around looking for him.

The police deal with homicides at least once a month/year. Trayvon's family dealt with a homicide (presumably) once in their lives.

Whose actions should we be faulting?

Logic.

It's a shame you had to restate the painfully obvious, but thank you.

 

[rossva]

BBM You don't believe a word Zimmerman is saying, so why believe Martin's father? Also, if the phone was some how powered down during the/a struggle, it wouldn't ring. The gf said the phone went dead - could have been damaged. IMO, as terrible job as the SPD did in trying to id Martin, <modsnip>.

Did Martin's father ever say if he left a message or not? It would be interesting to see logs of Martins phone how many times his father, or his gf actually did try calling after the incident, and if they left messages.

Trayvon's father said he was calling the phone. You do not need a lock code to answer a phone. Especially not an iPhone.

 

[annalia]

BBM You don't believe a word Zimmerman is saying, so why believe Martin's father? Also, if the phone was some how powered down during the/a struggle, it wouldn't ring. The gf said the phone went dead - could have been damaged. IMO, as terrible job as the SPD did in trying to id Martin, his father did in trying to locate him that night.

Did Martin's father ever say if he left a message or not? It would be interesting to see logs of Martins phone how many times his father, or his gf actually did try calling after the incident, and if they left messages.

Is Tray's father involved in his son's murder?

 

[HiHater]

BBM You don't believe a word Zimmerman is saying, so why believe Martin's father? Also, if the phone was some how powered down during the/a struggle, it wouldn't ring. The gf said the phone went dead - could have been damaged. IMO, as terrible job as the SPD did in trying to id Martin, his father did in trying to locate him that night.

Did Martin's father ever say if he left a message or not? It would be interesting to see logs of Martins phone how many times his father, or his gf actually did try calling after the incident, and if they left messages.

Do I really have to explain why I believe the victim's father as opposed to a murderer?

 

[mikeysmommom]

She was on the phone with him up to the point that GZ confronted him and asked TM what he was doing there. You don't think that's relevant?

Was a 16 year-old supposed to contact Sanford Police herself and demand they take her statement?

She knew he was confronted but she has no idea what happened after that fact.She should have called his parents and let them know something was not right.She did not know he was killed till the next day and she told no one of hearing her boyfriend confronted by a man who was following him?Phone goes dead and she can not reach him and she does nothing?Calling the police to say her boyfriend was confronted and the phone died and she didn't hear from him again not to give a statement as she had no idea what had happened.If she heard an aggressive man attack her boyfriend IMO she would have called 911.Younger children have called 911 when someone was in danger .At 16 she should have known to get him help if she felt it was needed.

 

[HiHater]

She knew he was confronted but she has no idea what happened after that fact.She should have called his parents and let them know something was not right.She did not know he was killed till the next day and she told no one of hearing her boyfriend confronted by a man who was following him?Phone goes dead and she can not reach him and she does nothing?Calling the police to say her boyfriend was confronted and the phone died and she didn't hear from him again not to give a statement as she had no idea what had happened.If she heard an aggressive man attack her boyfriend IMO she would have called 911.Younger children have called 911 when someone was in danger .At 16 she should have known to get him help if she felt it was needed.

Unlike other cases, there is absolutely no doubt what happened to Trayvon. There's no doubt about who killed him.

Questioning the actions of his father, mother, girlfriend, best friend, grandma or anyone else does nothing. There is no one else to cast doubt, no one else to blame.

You don't know whether or not she told her parents, but what could they have done? He was dead less than ONE MINUTE after she got off the phone with him. She is just now being made known to the public, and we don't know the reasons for that.

 

[SuziQ]

No, I didn't. If my kids were in a condominium complex, and being followed by some guy in a very public place, and the guy said what are you doing here, my boys would have said what they were doing. "My stepmom lives here and I'm staying at her house". They would probably arrive at the house with tales of the *advertiser censored*hole who confronted them, and that would be that. My kids HAVE been confronted by neighborhood busybodies, and they have never attacked the person confronting them.

I fully believe GZ was a neighborhood nosy guy, and Tray attacked him. That's what I believe based on my own experience with having teenage boys and neighborhood watch.

I will say this one caveat, my neighborhood is white and my kids are white. So that may make some difference. On the other hand, Tray was a light black skinned man, and GZ had virtually the same exact skin color although he was black/hispanic mixed race.

BBM. I apologize for painting with such a wide brush. I guess I wrongly assumed that most parents taught their kids to protect themselves. Not only do I teach my kids to fight for their lives, I taught my kids to not even get close enough to a stranger to have a discussion if they are by themselves. Which BTW, GZ accosted Trayvon on a dark and rainy night with no one visible. IMO, you can't call that very public.

 

[Adrienne37]

"No justice, no peace!" the crowd chanted.

"George Zimmerman took Trayvon's life for nothing," the teenager's father, Tracy Martin, told the demonstrators. "Our son did not deserve to die. There's nothing that we can say that will bring him back, but I'm here today to assure that justice is served and that no other parents have to go through this again."

"Our son is your son," Martin's mother, Sybrina Fulton, told the crowd. "This is not about a black-and-white thing. This is about a right-and-wrong thing. Justice for Trayvon!"

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/21/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

 

[HiHater]

I think the vast majority of 17 year olds would react to a total stranger's sudden stalking of them and then demanding "What are you doing here?" with trepidation and fear rather than rattling off the truth in a neat little sentence.

Also, to say that GZ and Trayvon had "virtually the same exact skin color" is really, really pushing it IMO.

You be the judge:

That statement is more than pushing it...I can't think of the right word to describe what it is though...

 

[mikeysmommom]

We only heard about her weeks later. There is nothing to suggest she only suddenly cam up with some story. The phone records prove she was indeed on the phone with him when he was attacked.

I believe she was on the phone ,but if she could tell he was in a bad situation why she did not call his family or 911?Someone posted a link earlier today saying the family just found out she had been on the phone.

 

[annalia]

You be the judge:

That statement is more than pushing it...I can't think of the right word to describe what it is though...

Their skin color isn't even close to being the same.

 

[BiancaS]

I don't believe there were sirens, wouldn't we have heard them during the 911 calls? The people with flashlights were there moments after the shooting, I believe those were the first officers at the scene.

 

[Velouria]

She knew he was confronted but she has no idea what happened after that fact.She should have called his parents and let them know something was not right.She did not know he was killed till the next day and she told no one of hearing her boyfriend confronted by a man who was following him?Phone goes dead and she can not reach him and she does nothing?Calling the police to say her boyfriend was confronted and the phone died and she didn't hear from him again not to give a statement as she had no idea what had happened.If she heard an aggressive man attack her boyfriend IMO she would have called 911.Younger children have called 911 when someone was in danger .At 16 she should have known to get him help if she felt it was needed.

So now it's all HER fault? :what:

Why is it everyone's fault EXCEPT for GZ?