FL - 17-yo Teen Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #3

[JeannaT]

He was arrested for shoving an officer, agreed to a plea deal which involved him attending classes no jail time. That's a conviction and it is on his record. And according to his record he has had a restraining order placed on him regarding domestic violence. That's a judgment.

If the records are available now they were available for a background check. Interferring with a police officer is a serious charge and he was lucky to have gotten such a light sentence. But it still counts as a conviction.

I think GZ has demostrated in a very negative way that a license for a handgun should have never been issued to him.

jmo

Do you understand that the law says you have to have a felony conviction to be denied the right to own a gun?

Neither of these are convictions.

He went into a youthful offender program to AVOID a conviction in the scuffle with the cop.

A restraining order is not a felony conviction.

Research this, really. These two incidents aren't felony convictions.

 

[daisy7]

LE took his gun into evidence and tested it.

I know I read that they took his gun that night, but haven't seen that they tested it?

 

[HiHater]

George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watchman who shot and killed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, has been withdrawn from school at Seminole State College by school officials, citing safety reasons.

SSC officials released a statement saying, "Due to the highly charged and high-profile controversy involving this student, Seminole State has taken the unusual but necessary step this week to withdraw Mr. Zimmerman from enrollment. This decision is based solely on our responsibility to provide for the safety of our students on campus as well as for Mr. Zimmerman."

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Ge...lege/-/1637132/9679944/-/b30kt1z/-/index.html

Well, that sucks. Crime doesn't pay.

 

[annalia]

I'm really tired of Trayvon being blamed for his own death. Maybe if Trayvon had done this, he'd be alive; maybe if Trayvon done that, he'd be alive. Why is it so hard to understand that Trayvon was an innocent young man who was minding his own business walking home when he was viciously murdered? I really don't understand.

It's amazing, it's very hard to understand.

Maybe we should teach in a civil society that adults don't chase kids with loaded weapons assuming that they're' criminals about to get away. But adults should already know that.

So we should say that Tray had no right to ask this total stranger who was first following him in his car, then following him on foot, then following him on foot again, why are you following me? That's hardly starting an altercation. And yet GZ STILL doesn't identify himself and say, hey I'm just with the neighborhood watch, just making sure everything's ok. No, this adult says what are you doing here.

And FTR his girlfriend never said that Tray was nasty, he asked this adult, who never identified himself as to who he was or why eh was following him, why are you following me?

The onus was not on this child in any way, shape or form. he was the one being hunted, not the other way around.

The adult in this case, a man who we all know for a fact had previous aggression problems, was the one who was supposed to diffuse any volatile situation. Starting with not calling him an effin *** and one of thsoe *advertiser censored******* that always gets away while going after him with a loaded gun.

JMHO.

 

[jjenny]

I know I read that they took his gun that night, but haven't seen that they tested it?

"Lee said that afterward police took Zimmerman into investigative detention and took his gun, which is being tested."
http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/...-Miami-Boys-Death-Police-Chief-142376875.html

 

[HiHater]

It's amazing, it's very hard to understand.

Maybe we should teach in a civil society that adults don't chase kids with loaded weapons assuming that theyre' criminals. But adults should already know that.

So we should say that Tray had no right to ask this total stranger who was first following him in his car, then following him on foot, then following him on foot again, why are you following me?

And FTR his girlfriend never said that Tray was nasty, he asked this adult, who never identified himself as to who he was or why eh was following him, why are you following me?

The onus was not on this child in any way, shape or form. he was the one being hunted, not the other way around.

The adult in this case, a man who we all know for a fact had previous aggression problems, was the one who was supposed to diffuse any volatile situation. Starting with not calling him an effin *** and one of thsoe *advertiser censored******* that always gets away while going after him with a loaded gun.

JMHO.

THANK YOU. We are supposed to believe that Trayvon was the one with the bad attitude, when George Zimmerman is on tape telling us how he feels about Trayvon. I'm sure George changed his mentality before he approached the *advertiser censored*sshole who always gets away.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

I wish to toss a question out there to the board...

If i have a gun... that's obviously in reach... why am i screaming for help???

When my best chance for help... is mere inches from my hand.

Its like somebody begging for food... while they have a cheeseburger in their pocket!!!

Maybe he was struggling for it, couldn't get to it, wanted to subdue the person without using it and was asking for help...

 

[mikeysmommom]

If you saw that same male being pursued by a slow moving truck with a guy watching him would you think that male might have been worried about this person following him and was thinking about knocking on the door.

I remember one time when I was a kid running up on a porch when someone was following me but not knocking because I did not want to appear to be chicken until it was absolutely necessary.

But the one following was the one watching.I did the same thing when I was 10 I had about 20 very big mean girls after me .I did knock and when a man about 60 answered the door I gave him a big hug yelling grampa.I was lucky he saw my need for protection and gave it.

 

[rossva]

By the way, for those who say because Martin's mom says it was him screaming for help, and a mother knows......what about fathers?

"Police play the 911 tape for Trayvon Martin’s father, who tells police that the voice screaming is not the voice of his son."

http://news.yahoo.com/video/orlando...peak-out-in-trayvon-martin-case-28640523.html

 

[JeannaT]

I am sorry but I have to answer this one twice, can't help myself.

Perhaps that's what he could have done, but that still does NOT answer the question I asked which is WHAT CRIME DID HE COMMIT THAT WAS PUNISHABLE BY DEATH?

Until and unless there is some actual proof the Trayvon DID in fact attack someone, the question remains, WHAT DID HE DO WRONG?

Being belligerant with someone who is belligerant with you is NOT a crime, not answering a question from someone you don't know and who appears to be stalking and threatening you is not a crime, even police officers faced with a belligerant teen with a attitude is not allowed to pull out a gun and shoot them. In fact, I think he did a lot of things right....he did NOT try and confront GZ with an attitude, he did not turn and confront GZ when he first realized he was being followed, he told his girlfriend he was going to try and walk faster and just get away from him...which is what I would have wanted my kid to do in similar situations since attempting to difuse the situation by being nice just might have gotten him beaten, abducted or worse....It is very clear that he did not want to be close enough to GZ for there to be a physical confrontation, he was SCARED, and I for one don't blame him, I would have been too, but by your example he was shot to death because he was not nice and humble enough??

Once again, don't know where to go with that, it's bizarre IMO JMHO and stuff

Maybe he knocked GZ in the head so many times that he feared for his life?

That's what LE believes, and since none of us have any of the evidence at hand, I'm willing to consider it.

 

[Sensei]

Maybe he was struggling for it, couldn't get to it, wanted to subdue the person without using it and was asking for help...

Why was he close enough to the kid for the kid to be able to reach his gun?

All the information that we have including the 911 call by GZ, indicates that TM, was trying to get away...he was walking fast, he did NOT want to be within arms reach of GZ. So GZ catches him, and all of a sudden TM tries to grab a gun that GZ is wearing concealed

When you are walking fast or running, attempting to get away from someone, and you are within yards of your goal, you KEEP RUNNING unless the person catches you and physically stops you....

What does NOT make sense is that you stop and try punching it out with him,

IMO , JMHO and stuff

 

[flourish]

The "Occupiers" were in no danger to themselves or anyone else, IMHO. They had no united cause, no passion, they were kind of whiney and out to have a good time. IMHO.

THIS is volatile. And I'm not biting my nails and wringing my hands, Velouria, I think it's a very rational thing to fear - that there will be more deaths in the next few days over this.

Wow, that is a rather general statement to make about a nationwide group of people. You couldn't possibly have met every single "whiny" person, so how in the world do you know they had no passion, where whiny, and only "out to have a good time?" The Occupiers in my town certainly didn't look like they were having a great time sleeping on the cold ground for weeks.

GZ may have thought Trayvon was armed, he obviously thought he was up to no good, so he may well have been in fear for his life.

Then perhaps he should have stayed in his car.

I'm quoting Lee.

Who we all know is a really awesome source of valid information in this case. :what:

How do we know the entire article was inaccurate? Trayvon was not a child and we don't know if it was him screaming as of yet.

A 17 year-old is legally and developmentally a child.

I'm just going to say this. What would have happened if Trayvon, confronted by this nosy tattletale guy, just said what he was doing there? This is interesting because my ALSO 17 year old son was tonight confronted at an athletic field where he was in the creek gathering pond plants. The adult stared him down for quite awhile, and then approached, and my son thought that was pretty creepy but said "hello". And then when asked what he was doing, he said he was gathering pond plants for a project, again a big smile.

If Trayvon had done that he would be alive today. This is what people do to avoid violent confrontations - they lead with trying to diffuse the situation.

I certainly have seen enough young people who disarm a volatile situation by being humble and friendly.

THAT's what Trayvon could have done.

In all honesty, I think to avoid being shot Trayvon could have not chosen to throw the first punch, which is exactly what I believe happened. IMHO.

Wow, there's so much to say about this post...but it comes down to my wondering why in the world should Trayvon have said anything "humble and friendly" to a person who had been following him and was now approaching him? The guy could have been a kidnapper ffs! It's all good and well to blame someone when you weren't in that situation and don't know the shock and fear they may have felt.

Yesterday, you commented that if the majority of people were taking GZ's side, you would be taking TM's side.

I thought that bore repeating.

He wasn't trying to get suggestions on his behavior from a dispatcher. He was trying to get LE out there, and quickly, to check out this guy he found suspicious.

Let me turn this around. If he intended to kill this guy in cold blood, why in the WORLD would he call the cops and ask for someone to arrive quickly?

He wouldn't.

He might if he were trying to set himself up to be a self-defending hero. Oh, and look what happened.

I KNOW he was not humble and friendly because his girlfriend has said he was the first to engage in a verbal discussion, and it wasn't friendly.

I believe her, with what she said happened. He shouted why are you following me, and GZ answered what are you doing here.

And then there was physical combat.

Had he said, right then, my stepmother lives here. That would have been that. End of story, no more drama. We would never have heard this boy's name.

Maybe we should all teach society civility. Just be civil. I am actually teaching my kids that. Lead with a smile and civility.

BTW, internet polling petitions mean zero to anyone. It takes less than 5 seconds to click. As a member of a couple of political action committees, we don't use internet click to agree polls, because it means nothing. Someone who is willing to come to the protests, as they are doing, means a LOT, or someone who picks up the phone and calls or sends a letter also means a lot. People who are sitting in their chairs clicking on a poll means zero.

Civility doesn't go a long way when someone is aggressively following you, and hunts you down after you've changed paths.

I'm simply incredulous here.

 

[LambChop]

As there is zero proof Zimmerman walked up to Martin and shot him in cold blood.

I don't either. But something did happen and GZ is not being 100% honest about what happened. It's possible when GZ asked TM what he was doing there, TM started to walk away and GZ grabbed his arm and that started it. If that were the case GZ never had the authority to touch TM, ever. I find it hard to believe when police having found ice tea and the candy after he was shot in his hoody pocket, that TM would have been in any type of wrestling match where GZ felt his life was in danger. Could TM still have those items in a pocket that is open on both ends if there was an actual wrestling match. The candy at least would have come out, yet they were still in the pocket of TM's shirt. It sounds more like TM struggled to get away and tried to hit at GZ to release him and GZ shot him. TM knew he had no weapon himself, GZ knew he did and TM ends up dead. So what deadly force did TM use that GZ felt his life was in danger? It wasn't the ice tea, or the skittles and all that is left is the cell phone. None of those things are deadly weapons. jmo

 

[Sensei]

Maybe he knocked GZ in the head so many times that he feared for his life?

That's what LE believes, and since none of us have any of the evidence at hand, I'm willing to consider it.

Unless I see some evidence that they took GZ to a doctor with substantial injuries I am not....you do not become fearful for your life from a minor scuffle if you are rational IMO JMHO and stuff.

 

[Boytwnmom]

The white neighborhood watch volunteer in Florida whose fatal shooting of an unarmed black teen has sparked outrage appeared to be fixated on young black males, according to a report in The Miami Herald.

According to the Herald, Zimmerman would often go door-to-door in the neighborhood, warning residents to be careful of young black males.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2012/03/report-shooter-in-racially-charged-death-often-called-cops/1#.T2vOlRFjDHQ
likely based not only upon the calls they still had. He made many more calls but they are not retained (he called 46 times since 1/2011), e-mail he sent around

“I fit the stereotype he emailed around,” he said. “Listen, you even hear me say it: ‘A black guy did this. A black guy did that.’ So I thought, ‘Let me sit in the house. I don’t want anyone chasing me.’ ”Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/...-trayvon-martin-a-habitual.html#storylink=cpy

. All the anecdotes I've seen have hm relating threatening black man stories,

“Just two weeks before this shooting, George called me at my girlfriend’s house to say he saw some black guy doing surveillance at my house, because I had a left a window open,”.http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/2700249_p2/shooter-of-trayvon-martin-a-habitual.html

According to the Herald, Zimmerman would often go door-to-door in the neighborhood, warning residents to be careful of young black males.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/...-trayvon-martin-a-habitual.html#storylink=cpy

It seems pretty clear to me and most other people I have encountered that Zimmermans conclusion that Treyvon was "up to no good" and dangerous was based in large part on his being a young black male. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but the facts are the facts and I haven't seen any indications he ever warned his neighbors about young blond guys or anything. As I white person I don't like to be accused of racism or to have the actions of all white people assumed to be based on racism. But when it exists I think it demands recognition.

Six calls, four mentioning blacks. 60%. Two calls not mentioning blacks. 40%. Doesn't look like he was fixated on blacks to me.

 

[daisy7]

Huh? Any non African American speaking was/is booed and heckled while on stage. Non African American speakers are being treeated EXTREMELY disrespectfully. Are we watching the same "rally"?

The only Caucasian I saw booed was the Mayor. There were a few Caucasian pastors that spoke after him that were not booed nor treated disrespectfully.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Wow, that is a rather general statement to make about a nationwide group of people. You couldn't possibly have met every single "whiny" person, so how in the world do you know they had no passion, where whiny, and only "out to have a good time?" The Occupiers in my town certainly didn't look like they were having a great time sleeping on the cold ground for weeks.



Then perhaps he should have stayed in his car.



Who we all know is a really awesome source of valid information in this case. :what:



A 17 year-old is legally and developmentally a child.



Wow, there's so much to say about this post...but it comes down to my wondering why in the world should Trayvon have said anything "humble and friendly" to a person who had been following him and was now approaching him? The guy could have been a kidnapper ffs! It's all good and well to blame someone when you weren't in that situation and don't know the shock and fear they may have felt.

Yesterday, you commented that if the majority of people were taking GZ's side, you would be taking TM's side.

I thought that bore repeating.



He might if he were trying to set himself up to be a self-defending hero. Oh, and look what happened.



Civility doesn't go a long way when someone is aggressively following you, and hunts you down after you've changed paths.

I'm simply incredulous here.

bbm, I said he was in fear during the altercation, not before it. I don't agree that a 17 year old is a child developmentally btw

 

[LambChop]

Maybe he knocked GZ in the head so many times that he feared for his life?

That's what LE believes, and since none of us have any of the evidence at hand, I'm willing to consider it.

If this were the case there would be evidence on TM. If LE believed that we would have heard that TM had GZ's hair and blood on his hands, cellphone, bag of skittles. Plus the blood was on the back of GZ's head and does anyone have a link that describes GZ's injuries??? jmo

 

[Sensei]

Maybe he knocked GZ in the head so many times that he feared for his life?

That's what LE believes, and since none of us have any of the evidence at hand, I'm willing to consider it.

BTW what did he knock GZ in the head with the bag of skittles, the iced tea, or the Iphone? and were they taken into evidence? Punching someone in the head with your fist would require a Mike Tyson type punch to lacerate your head and would undoubtedly break your knuckles...

 

[rossva]

I agree 100%. Earlier, on google images, there were recent pics of Martin, dressed, for a lack of better words, a . Pants down around his knees, underwear showing, giving gang signs. As of now, those pics seem to have disappeared. Only showing pics of him from several years ago is inflammatory. Lets see pics of him as he was when Zimmerman saw him.

This is not relevant to Florida, but in Texas 17 year olds are adults in the eyes of the law. So it's not THAT far fetched for someone to consider 17 an adult.

For the purposes of this discussion, he would have sounded like an adult, and looked like an adult, and might have seemed as threatening as an adult male.

The pictures the media keeps running are disingenuous, especially considering they DO have one that's current. I don't see any reason to keep running childhood pics. It's just inflammatory and confuses the issue.