FL - 17-yo Teen Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #3

[tlcya]

The only fact that concerns me is that an unarmed teen was shot by an armed adult for seemingly simply walking through a neighborhood on his way back to a home he was visiting/staying at with family while armed with nothing more than candy and a beverage which led me discover a law in the state of Florida that in its current incarnation outrages me because of the potential for abuse.

 

[Boytwnmom]

what skittles and iced tea have to do with it. He was an innocent boy going on an innocent run to the store and walking home with his innocent snacks. What happened here is the reason why racial profiling is illegal for law enforcement and the state to use. WHY? Because it's obviously not a very good way of judging criminality. Treyvon was not a criminal by any measure or report. He was unarmed and engaging in normal lawful behavior and was gunned down by someone who determined that he was a threat based upon not what he was doing but upon who he was, a black boy. This has been substantiated by the many news reports of Zimmermans fixation on black youth as perpetrators of crime in his neighborhood.

There is no evidence that Treyvon knew or should have known this guy. His fathers fiance lived there, not his father. You're right, accurate facts are important. GZ did not identify himself as indicated by the girlfriends account-he did not even speak first-Treyvon had to ask him why he was following him when he popped up again after Treyvon thought he had eluded him. I find this terrifying. This guy was quietly stalking this poor kid with a gun while the boy was just trying to get back home without being assaulted.

I am not going to attack the victims girlfriend. I have seen no EVIDENCE that she had lied or had any motivation to lie. As far as I can tell the only person with motivation to lie is the perpetrator and his enablers, the incompetent law enforcement officers who attended the scene.

Also, reports from other black youth in the development indicated GZ would not even reply to their greetings so it seems unlikely he walked around being friendly to black youth he encountered which furthers makes his actions questionable. Saying he took his job seriously is a bit of a stretch. It was not a job. They didn't even have an official neighborhood watch program. If he was acting in his neighborhood watch capacity, he should not have been armed, he should have followed the law enforcement officers advice to not follow the person.

Finding the victims and his family or friends and their accounts "sketchy" leaves me without words. These people have been through hell and I have seen NOTHING but calm, respectful and gracious behavior exhibited and words said. To find them sketchy is like GZ finding Treyvon dangerous, neither is based on evidence.

You know this how? Details of the investigation have not been made public.


For the life of me I don't get what skittles and iced tea has to do with this, maybe, like the 12 year old picture that's been plastered everywhere, it makes him seem younger than he was? Trayvon was in a gated community - he was obviously familiar with the community because his father lived there, correct? There are signs that indicate a "neighborhood watch" patrols the area. It has been said that Zimmerman took his job seriously which means, to me, he was out a lot patrolling. It's not a huge community and other neighbors, the two girls, said they knew of him (doesn't say hi). Not a stretch that he at least knew OF him.


It is a fact that she didn't come forward until March 19, if I remember correctly. Trayvon wasn't identified for two days - when did she become traumatized, on the third day? How long was she in the hospital and why tell a family attorney and not the police? Seriously, no one finds this sketchy?



There is a police report and a letter from the City Commissioner - there are statements from eye witnesses and a 911 call where yelling is heard in the background....more than just "help". The phone records are those of the girlfriend that were given to the attorney for the family after the investigation. Doesn't add up, IMO.

 

[Adrienne37]

I can't tell if this has been posted yet since WS is running so crappy right now.


Lead Prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda Begins his Investigation of Trayvon Martin's Death in Stanford

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/...ns-his-Investigation-of-Trayvon-Martins-Death

 

[LolaMoon08]

Skittles and a can of Ice Tea are completely relevent to this case because that is what Trayvon was armed with. Zimmerman was armed with a gun. Anyone who cannot see why that's an issue and why it's important to this case... well... I just don't know what to say?

 

[songline]

Geraldo Rivera blames hoodie for Trayvon's death; critics tell him to zip it up

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...-trayvons-death-critics-tell-him-to-zip-it-up

While IMHO hoodies do often make me look twice or walk away,
that would not be true in rainy weather, most of us DO pull up a hoodie.

Is Geraldo single handedly going to kill the hoodie business :floorlaugh:


Hey Geraldo the hoodie did not pull the triger.

 

[vlpate]

It is insulting to be ridiculed for joining a thread on this forum,, especially when I've not made a single misstatement of fact nor have I speculated wildly about the media reports. It seems to me the "facts" aren't being discussed at all. You were not availed of the "facts" in the beginning, obviously. The girlfriend's statement wasn't released until almost 3 weeks after the fact. George Zimmerman said on the 26th that HE was yelling for help - fact. The police stated he was BLEEDING, not that there was blood on him, he was actively bleeding. It is a fact that he was taken into custody and transported to the police station - doesn't stop speculation about why he was just "sent home".

There is evidence in the 911 call that Trayvon was acting suspicious, GZ followed him, as is his job - there's no PROOF anywhere that says he continued to stalk him - and the dispatcher never said the word "STOP".

This has become huge and Farakahm is threatening violence - instead of beating the drum for another riot, I'm going to look at those "facts" that are available to anyone who cares to stop the hyperbole and look at them.

It's insulting for anyone to jump in midstream and make that accusation.

 

[T4Tide]

The only fact that concerns me is that an unarmed teen was shot by an armed adult for seemingly simply walking through a neighborhood on his way back to a home he was visiting/staying at with family while armed with nothing more than candy and a beverage which led to me discover a law in the state of Florida that in its current incarnation outrages me because of the potential for abuse.

Thanks just wasn't enough.

Finally.... a color blind statement that sums up about how I feel.

 

[LolaMoon08]

It is insulting to be ridiculed for joining a thread on this forum,, especially when I've not made a single misstatement of fact nor have I speculated wildly about the media reports. It seems to me the "facts" aren't being discussed at all. You were not availed of the "facts" in the beginning, obviously. The girlfriend's statement wasn't released until almost 3 weeks after the fact. George Zimmerman said on the 26th that HE was yelling for help - fact. The police stated he was BLEEDING, not that there was blood on him, he was actively bleeding. It is a fact that he was taken into custody and transported to the police station - doesn't stop speculation about why he was just "sent home".

There is evidence in the 911 call that Trayvon was acting suspicious, GZ followed him, as is his job - there's no PROOF anywhere that says he continued to stalk him - and the dispatcher never said the word "STOP".

This has become huge and Farakahm is threatening violence - instead of beating the drum for another riot, I'm going to look at those "facts" that are available to anyone who cares to stop the hyperbole and look at them.

It took 3 weeks for the 911 tapes to be released? Maybe they had her statement and chose not to release it earlier because the lawyers for Trayvon's family didn't want it to be released? Like, maybe they wanted to hear the 911 tapes before they released the information about the girlfriend being on the phone with Trayvon in order to piece everything together? Trayvon's family didn't get to hear the 911 calls until we heard the 911 calls!

 

[Boytwnmom]

thought he could just shoot him-he needed a back story. The boy was screaming for help and he shot him-he needed to be the one screaming to show he was trying to avoid shooting the kid who "jumped" him. If the boy jumped him, the boy would not be screaming. I'm sure GZ has a lot of support from what I've read on here. My white family is not among them.

Of course we should believe the white shooter who pursued and shot dead an innocent boy despite being told not to as he would have no reason to lie. Must be the black family lying it was their son screaming and the witnesses lying that it was a boys voice and coming from the boy on the bottom under the bigger guy and the black girlfriend lying about her last terrifying conversation with Treyvon.

Until this case, I honestly though cries of "racism" were overstated and too easily made. I think I've been wrong. In my majority white New England college town we have people of all races coming through the college and race is pretty irrelevant to my family. That is obviously not true everywhere. How anyone can support this murder is completely bizarre to me. GZ went looking for trouble and when there wasn't any he conjured some up in his favorite guise of a black boy and made sure this one wouldn't get away.

On the 2/26/2012 official police report, before the 911 call was released for public consumption, Zimmerman stated he was yelling for help and no one would help him. How was he to know this would become an issue now? He couldn't have known and I doubt he made it up - but I'm quite sure there will be those that say he did. My opinion this negates the speculation that it was Trayvon yelling for help. The officer giving the report could not have known about the witness report either.

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin Lakes Shooting Initial Report.pdf

 

[annalia]

Well, to be completely fair, the photo they are using of George Zimmerman is about 7 years old as well.

I don't hear anyone complaining about that...:waitasec:

I hadn't realized that the picture of GZ was about 7 years old.

That's even older than any of the pics of Trayvon, given that Trayvon had just turned 17.

JMHO

 

[LolaMoon08]

And why would they lie about this girl being on the phone with Trayvon when it could easily be disproven with phone records?

 

[annalia]

And why would they lie about this girl being on the phone with Trayvon when it could easily be disproven with phone records?

Actually, don't the phone records corroborate it?

 

[songline]

LZ Granderson is a commenter for CNN. IMHO, he is always a breath of fresh air and makes perfect sense - and is reliable. I do see his point -

On a lighter note, anyone who listens to Dave Chapelle, a black stand up comedian - he's got some really funny but I'm sure true routines about being Black and being stopped by cops.
Black men and white men do seem to be treated very differently.

Cultural diversity has come a very long way, but it still has a way to go.
I am very bothered that Zimmerman has NOT been arrested.
I am just as bothered that Al Sharpton was called in.
Al is known for playing the race card.

This is an LE mistake. they messed up, should have arrested the shooter
and let him go on bail. Then we can sort out the details.
IMO - this will be a fiasco and never a fair trial. NEVER.
My family is mixed - I am not one sided - so I am standing my ground.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

On the 2/26/2012 official police report, before the 911 call was released for public consumption, Zimmerman stated he was yelling for help and no one would help him. How was he to know this would become an issue now? He couldn't have known and I doubt he made it up - but I'm quite sure there will be those that say he did. My opinion this negates the speculation that it was Trayvon yelling for help. The officer giving the report could not have known about the witness report either.

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin Lakes Shooting Initial Report.pdf

I think the police officer quoting that statement in the report is one of the main reasons the feds are in on this case and the city is demanding a review of the police dept. now.

Of all the things Zimmerman probably said that night the cop decided that one was important. Why was that statement important to the cop to put into the report? He doesn't say why he was yelling for help, did he need help to restrain him or secure the subject because he thought the subject was going for a gun in his waistband?

No, he just quotes he yelled for help and nobody helped him.

Lo and behold there were police doing interviews that night and they were told someone was yelling for help.

In fact with that report you link there are several witnesses listed. Are those witnesses this cop contacted?

This report was done early the next morning plenty of time for this cop to know about the call for help people heard and make it relevant to put just that quote in the report.

 

[ynotdivein]

If you are having trouble keeping this discussion impersonal, reasonably polite, and focused on linked facts and clearly denoted opinions, please give yourself a break from the thread.

Every poster has a right to be here as long as they are abiding by TOS and the Rules.

Every poster here also has a right to express their own opinion, and it's ok to disagree.

If anyone needs a refresher, here is the link to the Rules.
Pay special attention to the section on "Dealing with your fellow posters."

Where this post lands is random.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

thought he could just shoot him-he needed a back story. The boy was screaming for help and he shot him-he needed to be the one screaming to show he was trying to avoid shooting the kid who "jumped" him. If the boy jumped him, the boy would not be screaming. I'm sure GZ has a lot of support from what I've read on here. My white family is not among them.

Of course we should believe the white shooter who pursued and shot dead an innocent boy despite being told not to as he would have no reason to lie. Must be the black family lying it was their son screaming and the witnesses lying that it was a boys voice and coming from the boy on the bottom under the bigger guy and the black girlfriend lying about her last terrifying conversation with Treyvon.

Until this case, I honestly though cries of "racism" were overstated and too easily made. I think I've been wrong. In my majority white New England college town we have people of all races coming through the college and race is pretty irrelevant to my family. That is obviously not true everywhere. How anyone can support this murder is completely bizarre to me. GZ went looking for trouble and when there wasn't any he conjured some up in his favorite guise of a black boy and made sure this one wouldn't get away.

So now GZ is white?

 

[songline]

Actually, don't the phone records corroborate it?

I do not think the girl is lying about the call.
But since they did Call Al Sharpton ...
the details of that call could have very well gotten fudged.
Cant prove what she heard or knew. cant prove who said what on that call.

I sure would not put anything past Sharpton.

 

[pkz]

Don't know if this has been posted or not but.............:what:

Zimmerman's family has denied that race played a role, saying he has many minority relatives and friends.

"The portrayal of George Zimmerman in the media, as well as the series of events that led to the tragic shooting, are false and extremely misleading," his father, a retired magistrate judge, wrote in a letter published in the Orlando Sentinel. "Unfortunately, some individuals and organizations have used this tragedy to further their own causes and agendas."

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/22/justice/florida-teen-zimmerman/index.html

so...Zimmerman's father is a retired judge and
it has also been reported Zimmerman's mother is a Court Interpreter

 

[vlpate]

I think the police officer quoting that statement in the report is one of the main reasons the feds are in on this case and the city is demanding a review of the police dept. now.

Of all the things Zimmerman probably said that night the cop decided that one was important. Why was that statement important to the cop to put into the report? He doesn't say why he was yelling for help, did he need help to restrain him or secure the subject because he thought the subject was going for a gun in his waistband?

No, he just quotes he yelled for help and nobody helped him.

Lo and behold there were police doing interviews that night and they were told someone was yelling for help.

In fact with that report you link there are several witnesses listed. Are those witnesses this cop contacted?

This report was done early the next morning plenty of time for this cop to know about the call for help people heard and make it relevant to put just that quote in the report.

IMO, it was relevant because the case was already being considered "stand your ground." I don't understand the reasoning behind an officer making a point of listening to the 911 call first thing the next day and conspiring to make the plea for help heard on the tape be part of Zimmerman's story. If anything, LE aren't all that fond of citizens taking the law into their own hands. I've had many courtesy officers over the years who were LE and they detest rent-a-cops who aren't actual officers.

This could be the case here - a gung-ho wannabe, I just haven't seen anything in his past to support it.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Skittles and a can of Ice Tea are completely relevent to this case because that is what Trayvon was armed with. Zimmerman was armed with a gun. Anyone who cannot see why that's an issue and why it's important to this case... well... I just don't know what to say?

He wasn't "armed" with iced tea and skittles. They are not weapons.He was unarmed. Therefore, why mention the tea and skittles in comparison with the 9mm pistol? What about the phone? He was carrying that too but we don't hear that he was "armed" with a phone. Repeatedly mentioning the tea and skittles simply plays on emotions because the candy evokes nostalgia and images of childhood innocence imo.