FL - 17-yo Teen Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #3

[rossva]

I wonder if ABC paid either her or the attorney for the exclusive.

Start here Song - http://www.sanfordfl.gov/frames/home_frames.html

The girlfriend gave her statement 3 weeks after the fact - ABC got an exclusive with the girl and the family attorney. Trayvon was dead two days before being identified. The girlfriend describes talking on the phone with Trayvon and his being scared - being followed by someone, being hit....the phone somehow disconnecting (she never says she heard a shot), and then she apparently goes on with her life without ever calling the police about what she'd heard.

 

[rossva]

Per this:

2. Per the police chief, Zimmerman wasn't on patrol that night. Lee:

"He was in fact on a personal errand in his vehicle when he observed Mr. Martin in the community and called the Sanford Police Department."

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/22/justic...man/?hpt=us_c2
Neighborhood watch guidelines do not apply.

Let me repost this link that I posted earlier this morning which should clear up quite a few statements about what was Zimmerman's duties, etc. This comes directly from the police department's neighborhood watch liaison and her interactions with Zimmerman as part of the program.

1. In every presentation, “I go through what the rules and responsibilities are,” she said Thursday. The volunteers’ role, she said, is “being the eyes and ears” for the police, “not the vigilante.” Members of a neighborhood watch “are not supposed to confront anyone,” she said. “We get paid to get into harm’s way. You don’t do that. You just call them from the safety of your home or your vehicle.”
Using a gun in the neighborhood watch role would be out of the question, she said in an interview.

2. In Sanford, she said, watch groups are not even supposed to make the rounds. That is the job of another kind of volunteer organization, Citizens on Patrol, whose members are selected and trained by the police and who drive the streets in a specially marked vehicle. Members of that group, Ms. Dorival said, “are armed only with a radio.”

3. The manual warns that watch members should “not attempt to apprehend a person committing a crime or to investigate a suspicious activity.” It should be emphasized to members of patrols, the materials state, that “they do not possess police power and they shall not carry weapons.” The consequences of not following the guidelines are severe, the manual states: “Each member is liable as an individual for civil and criminal charges should he exceed his authority.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46830953/ns/us_news-the_new_york_times/#.T2z67RH2b2Y

 

[RANCH]

Why? That still wouldn't prove that it was GZ who was attacked. How would it prove that GZ didn't fall, or the gun hit him after firing? Or that GZ still didn't go after Tray? What wounds were on Tray, other than the gunshot that took his life?

According to much of what I've been hearing, the first aggressor came into play when GZ decided to go after Trayvon. He was the pursuer, the aggressor, knowing full well he had a loaded weapon, that threw the self defense right out the window.
JMHO

But are there any witness's that saw GZ go after Trayvon? Trayvon is dead so he can't testify. That leaves GZ's account. Which apparently has him losing sight of Trayvon then heading back to his truck with Trayvon attacking him.

Zimmerman’s statement was that he had lost sight of Trayvon and was returning to his truck tomeet the police officer when he says he was attacked by Trayvon

http://www.scribd.com/doc/86330859/Zimmerman-Martin-Shooting

 

[Velouria]

I wonder if ABC paid either her or the attorney for the exclusive.

But remember, they don't pay for interviews. They pay licensing fees for photos and videos.

You know, like the 240 grand FCA got for those pictures of Caylee.

 

[belle3]

If there was a physical altercation, why can it not be inferred that the young man was scared for his life and was defending himself. This mans irresponsible actions contributed to death of an innocent person. How is that not blatantly obvious?

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Per this:

2. Per the police chief, Zimmerman wasn't on patrol that night. Lee:

"He was in fact on a personal errand in his vehicle when he observed Mr. Martin in the community and called the Sanford Police Department."

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/22/justic...man/?hpt=us_c2
Neighborhood watch guidelines do not apply.

Wonder if this had something to do with a drug deal like he was a snitch or something. For some reason it was a narco detective that questioned him first at the station and not a homicide detective.

 

[ScubaTwinn]

It's cause they don't have a newer one.

I have to admit I've thought about this about Trayvon also. We rarely take pictures. I know he's a kid, but is it possible there are no other pictures? Including George?

 

[Sensei]

TY ..
I missed this - I hope he has a couple of witnesses.
IF someone is about to kill you with their bare hands and you do not dial 911
you are either Full of chit, or a moron looking for a problem.

Where is the girlfrinds story fit in on this?

The forum has been running very slow so I took a break for a while, so someone else may have answered this for you.

TM was on the phone with his girlfriend when Zimmerman caught up to Trayvon, and she heard him say "what are you doing around here" she then heard what she characterized as a pushing, or some form of a scuffle, and then the headset went dead....She said that at first Trayvon noticed that he was being watched by the man in the vehicle, and decided to walk fast to just get home, then he changed directions and attempted to evade him, and then said "there he is again" or something similar and was cornered or somehow closer to him than he wanted to be, she heard Trayvon say Why are you following me, and then the pushing or scuffle of some sort.

On JVM tonight, they said that the girl's parents called the police, and then they attempted to call the Sanford PD to tell them that their daughter was on the phone with Trayvon when he was killed and <drum roll please> NO ONE EVER CALLED THEM BACK that's right folks....The Sanford PD was not interested and even with her parents reaching out to them to tell them that she was a potential witness to talk to the never bothered to interview her at all....

 

[belle3]

Mr. Zimmermans attorney on anderson cooper

 

[Horace Finklestein]

If there was a physical altercation, why can it not be inferred that the young man was scared for his life and was defending himself. This mans irresponsible actions contributed to death of an innocent person. How is that not blatantly obvious?

It could also be inferred that Trayvon attacked GZ. I think that's the frustrating thing imo - not enough info to make a firm conclusion.

 

[ScubaTwinn]

I don't believe whatsoever there was some big giant cover up to protect Zimmerman. I think Zimmerman told police early on he acted in self-defense. Knowing full well that because of "stand your ground" law it was going to be very hard to put him on trial police investigated the exact same way they would in these type of cases.

Have you ever dealt with 3 homcides with relatives? I have. I am talking multiple homicides. One in Florida. I am so over this and disgusted with how the PD handled this. MULTIPLE FAILURES. I cannot even go into their failures.

 

[RANCH]

If there was a physical altercation, why can it not be inferred that the young man was scared for his life and was defending himself. This mans irresponsible actions contributed to death of an innocent person. How is that not blatantly obvious?

Are you saying that because Trayvon was younger than GZ that we must infer that Trayvon was defending himself and not attacking GZ? Why?

 

[rossva]

Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html

Funny how this thread goes round and round yet I feel there is no debate necessary about the events of the evening BECAUSE GZ was told NOT to follow Trayvon AND although it was mentioned by someone in the thread that it was his JOB to do so, it was NOT. He was not a police officer and by all accounts I've read was a SELF appointed captain of the HOA watch.
A young boy (sorry, to me 17 is YOUNG) is dead because of GZs blatant disregard of LEs direction. One does this when they feel they are "above the law" IMHO

 

[belle3]

According to gz attorney he suffered broken nose and a cut ti the back of the head, but didnt need stitches because by the time he got to dr. It was already starting to heal

 

[rossva]

He was interviewed by a NARCOTICS officer. I am pretty sure a NARCOTICS officer would have noticed if he was high as a kite or drunk as a skunk .

true.. and he also could have fallen because he was high as a kite or drunk as a skunk but we will NEVER know since a thorough police investigation was never done :banghead:

 

[belle3]

No message from gz to the martin family at this time, according to gz lawyer

 

[ScubaTwinn]

As a Floridian, until I see photographic evidence of George Zimmerman's life theatening injuries, I will question whether or not he was truly that injured... if at all. IF Sanford Police were doing an actual investigation, there would be pictures of his injuries.

We will never see any kind of photographic or forensic evidence of George Zimmerman's clothes that night because was allowed to go home in those clothes. We will never know how much of that blood, if there was any, belonged to Trayvon which is a key piece of evidence in determining how far away George Zimmerman was when he shot Tray! It's lost forever! Contaminated even if they were able to get it now.

I want to see all forensic evidence collected. Bullet casing. How far away from Tray's body was the bullet casing. How did Tray end up face down? Trajectory tests, etc... Were they even done? Were pictures taken at all? Where was Tray's phone found and how far was it away from his body?

I want to see Zimmerman's phone records. I want to know if at any time police were investigating that night, if Zimmerman's father was called?

I want to know a lot of things. I want to know how much of an investigation was done before they chose not to arrest Zimmerman? I want to know why it has been stated that Tray jumped Zimmerman from the back while he was heading back to his car when that is not what happened at all? We know words were said between them? We know Tray asked him why he was being followed and Zimmerman asked what are you doing here, or something like that?

It is my opinion that very little investigation was done. Al Sharpton didn't even get involved until yesterday and the rally he held, in front of a crowd of all races, was beautiful!

I believe you hit it right on the money.

 

[ynotdivein]

Anyone taping A Cooper who can transcribe for us later? TIA :tyou:

 

[Sensei]

Are you saying that because Trayvon was younger than GZ that we must infer that Trayvon was defending himself and not attacking GZ? Why?

Not to speak for anyonelse, but what I am saying is that it is IMO highly unlikely that after walking fast, and changing directions to attempt to evade this larger and older stranger that his following him, while still in the midst of a conversation with his girlfriend, not even hanging up the phone, all of a sudden Trayvon launched into an attack....Perhaps you find that likely, I simply do not IMO JMHO and stuff.

 

[rossva]

You are taking comments out of context. My statement "I believe Zimmerman claims the fact it was he, Zimmerman, pleading for his life, not Martin." was in direct response to

<snipped> and the fact that it appears that Trayvon was pleading for his life, <snipped>

And, im my case, it is a FACT Zimmerman claimed it.

Just because he said it doesn't mean it's the truth.