FL - 17-yo Teen Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #4

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The broken nose is the one that just floors me....If you have a broken nose, and do not get immediate treatment you could have a crooked nose, you could end up with a deviated septum, or a nose that you can't breathe through for the rest of your life....and if you wait to get it treated, they may have to rebreak it to attempt to set it straight....broken noses are common and some think they are simple and kinda minor, but they can be anything but that, and I do NOT see LE allowing him to go to the station and not the hospital for treatment if he actually had a broken nose, JMHO and stuff

Does a broken nose continue to bleed for any length of time or does it suddenly stop? Wouldn't a parametic have recommended he be taken to the hospital if his nose was broken. I don't see him going to the police station still bleeding as that would have some serious health issues. And what about a concussion? Wouldn't they have wanted to check for that even if he had no signs. I know they did when my granddaughter got hit in the face with a volleyball that sent her to the ground. And she did have a concussion. This just does not make sense. jmo
 
Speculating is all well and good, and makes sense, but prosecution will have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt and how are they going to do that? IF GZ initiated the fight then stand your ground law doesn't cover him (he'd have to attempt to get away first) but how does prosecution prove that?

My opinion only - They use the 911 call where the dispatcher tells GZ it is not necessary to follow this person because there are units on the way. That is step one. Then they interview GZ, thorougly, and have him describe every step taken that night. And explain why Tray was lying face down with his hands under him. And they go on from there. I have no doubt a prosecutor could prove that GZ is guilty of murder.

Salem
 
Correct. You don't have to sustain a certain amount of injuries before your allowed to prevent great bodily harm by using force or even deadly force.

Notice the portion of your post that I put in Bold...Zimmerman is going to have to prove that he was prevent great bodily harm from an unarmed teenager...If someone is holding a gun or a knife on you, you don't have to have any injuries, but there would be reasonable fear of great bodily harm in that instance....being punched in the nose IMO does not put a person in reasonable fear of great bodily harm or DEATH at the hands of someone unarmed when the assailant is younger and lighter than the person claiming attack. So you really don't have to have injuries BUT

No but you DO have the duty to prove that you have a reasonable fear of great bodily harm or death

You are only allowed to use as much force as is necessary to save your life...fear of having your clock well and truly cleaned by an unarmed teenager that you were trying to intimidate just does not qualify...
 
My opinion only - They use the 911 call where the dispatcher tells GZ it is not necessary to follow this person because there are units on the way. That is step one. Then they interview GZ, thorougly, and have him describe every step taken that night. And explain why Tray was lying face down with his hands under him. And they go on from there. I have no doubt a prosecutor could prove that GZ is guilty of murder.

Salem

Whatever 911 operator told him is only a recommendation, not an order. He doesn't break any laws if he isn't following what an operator told him to do.
He has a full right to be in a gated community. So that in itself doesn't prove anything.
 
Oh my, pls help me out. I though GZ was cuffed and taken to the station but not charged after being questioned by the narcotics detective. Would that not be called an arrest? And released same nite after a warp speed homicide investigation.

I think the cuffing is normal with a shooting until they determine whether they can release him or not. Does not mean he was placed under arrest. jmo
 
My understanding was that it was determined by the investigating officer that GZ was justified because GZ said it was self defense. There was no homocide detective on the scene. Much of the evidence is gone. No tests were done on GZ. jmo

Do you have a link to this? I've seen it posted but can't find that actual source that says no officer with homicide experience was called out. Not that I"m doubting anyone but just want to brush up on the facts from the source. I live about 5 minutes from Sanford so this is close to home for me.
 
Is this lawyer experienced in these type of cases, because this law clearly doesn't cover only those who are in their homes?

I would have no clue about this lawyer, although I could Google him, he's the one Zimmerman chose so I suppose Mr. Zimmerman thinks he has enough experience. (He might have asked his Daddy and Mom, they have some experience in that area)
 
You have inaccurate info.

Despite the frequency of his calls to the police, Zimmerman had only become a member of the neighborhood watch in September 2011. In fact, Twin Lakes’ neighborhood watch itself did not exist before then, according to Wendy Dorival, volunteer coordinator for the Sanford Police Department.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/23/did-trayvon-shooter-abuse-911.html

Thanks - that's the first I've seen that a real neighborhood watch group had been formed. Previously I had read that the group there was not registered and that GZ had attended some sort of training with the Sanford PD in 2008. That is what I was basing my comments on.

It's interesting that the articles up until today did not mention the newly formed neighborhood watch group and characterized GZ as "self appointed". Suddenly today Ms. Dorival surfaces with information that the group was formed last fall, though she does emphasize that GZ did not follow the guidelines the group was given.

Neighbors describe watch leader at center of Florida investigation
March 22, 2012|By the CNN Wire Staff

Zimmerman attended a four-month law-enforcement program in 2008 at the sheriff's office, said Kim Cannaday, spokeswoman for the Seminole County sheriff's office.

In his application for the course, Zimmerman wrote: "I hold law enforcement officers in the highest regard and I hope to one day become one."

More: http://articles.cnn.com/2012-03-22/...ent-officers-investigation-shot?_s=PM:JUSTICE

Who is George Zimmerman, and why did he shoot Trayvon Martin?

George Zimmerman, the Florida neighborhood watch captain who shot unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin, wanted to be a police officer and mentored an African-American boy. Is he a vigilante or, as one neighbor said, 'a good dude'?

By Patrik Jonsson, Staff writer / March 24, 2012

At the very least, a series of 46 emergency calls made by Zimmerman over the past six years document a man vigilant about keeping his neighborhood safe and orderly. The calls include complaints about unruly people at the pool, potholes, dumped trash, and kids playing in the street. In recent months, as the neighborhood saw an uptick in crime, including burglaries and a shooting, Zimmerman's calls had focused on specific suspects, the majority of them young black men.

“The newly released police calls paint Zimmerman as a man obsessed with law and order, with the minutiae of suburban life, and with black males,” writes Mother Jones' Adam Weinstein.

But Zimmerman's family, his neighbors and his lawyer paint a different picture: That of a devoted neighbor, keen enough to protect the neighborhood that residents, in establishing a local Neighborhood Watch group last year, appointed him the captain. The organization was not registered with the national Neighborhood Watch program, but was set up with the assistance of the Sanford Police Department. Zimmerman initiated the program, according to Wendy Dorival, the department's volunteer coordinator.

More: http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2012/0324/Who-is-George-Zimmerman-and-why-did-he-shoot-Trayvon-Martin
 
My understanding was that it was determined by the investigating officer that GZ was justified because GZ said it was self defense. There was no homocide detective on the scene. Much of the evidence is gone. No tests were done on GZ. jmo


there was a narcotics detective not a homicide but they claim
that in small cities they are interchangeable.
 
Seriously?

It hides your face in shadows, and only shows your face in a direct front on view.

Wow, hoodie up or not, your face always hides in the shadows only revealing the profile unless the person looking at you has night vision goggles. On the another hand a burka/ski mask/stocking/hanky does a good job of hiding your face.
 
Whatever 911 operator told him is only a recommendation, not an order. He doesn't break any laws if he isn't following what an operator told him to do.
He has a full right to be in a gated community. So that in itself doesn't prove anything.

TM had every right to be in this same gated community as well.

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Does a broken nose continue to bleed for any length of time or does it suddenly stop? Wouldn't a parametic have recommended he be taken to the hospital if his nose was broken. I don't see him going to the police station still bleeding as that would have some serious health issues. And what about a concussion? Wouldn't they have wanted to check for that even if he had no signs. I know they did when my granddaughter got hit in the face with a volleyball that sent her to the ground. And she did have a concussion. This just does not make sense. jmo

A broken nose may or may not continue to bleed, since your nose has some blood vessels in the soft tissue but what gets broken is the cartiledge, and that does not have many, but the major danger is swelling, which can impair your breathing, along with being mightlily uncomfortable, the swelling can affect your eyes, and the soft tissues of your throat and depending on the amount of damage can be dangerous... Any trauma to the head, concussion is a major concern, among other things, so yes, in my experience and IMO, if there was a gash, or abrasion that the EMT felt was significant enough that a person sustain a severe blow to the head they would have wanted him to go to Hospital just to be on the safe side..IMO JMHO and stuff
 
The broken nose is the one that just floors me....If you have a broken nose, and do not get immediate treatment you could have a crooked nose, you could end up with a deviated septum, or a nose that you can't breathe through for the rest of your life....and if you wait to get it treated, they may have to rebreak it to attempt to set it straight....broken noses are common and some think they are simple and kinda minor, but they can be anything but that, and I do NOT see LE allowing him to go to the station and not the hospital for treatment if he actually had a broken nose, JMHO and stuff

Definitely agree with your post Sensei. First and foremost, the police department isn't going to risk someone coming back and suing them for not taking them for needed medical care so this whole argument about his injuries is bullcrap.
 
So we are supposed to believe this witness?

But we aren't supposed to believe Trayvon's own mother that the screams were those of her son?

You can believe whatever it is you want to believe.
 
Notice the portion of your post that I put in Bold...Zimmerman is going to have to prove that he was prevent great bodily harm from an unarmed teenager...If someone is holding a gun or a knife on you, you don't have to have any injuries, but there would be reasonable fear of great bodily harm in that instance....being punched in the nose IMO does not put a person in reasonable fear of great bodily harm or DEATH at the hands of someone unarmed when the assailant is younger and lighter than the person claiming attack. So you really don't have to have injuries BUT

No but you DO have the duty to prove that you have a reasonable fear of great bodily harm or death

You are only allowed to use as much force as is necessary to save your life...fear of having your clock well and truly cleaned by an unarmed teenager that you were trying to intimidate just does not qualify...

I guess we interpret the statute differently. I see someone striking blows to your head as reason enough for force to prevent great bodily harm to be used.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...ng=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.013.html
 
A broken nose may or may not continue to bleed, since your nose has some blood vessels in the soft tissue but what gets broken is the cartiledge, and that does not have many, but the major danger is swelling, which can impair your breathing, along with being mightlily uncomfortable, the swelling can affect your eyes, and the soft tissues of your throat and depending on the amount of damage can be dangerous... Any trauma to the head, concussion is a major concern, among other things, so yes, in my experience and IMO, if there was a gash, or abrasion that the EMT felt was significant enough that a person sustain a severe blow to the head they would have wanted him to go to Hospital just to be on the safe side..IMO JMHO and stuff

I had my nose broke playing shortstop, I looked like a racoon..not to mention the pain of getting it set!

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Hi vlpate - can you link this up please? What other 50 cases? Where are you getting these stats from? Was this reported in MSM? I would very much like to see these stats, especially if the 50 cases are from Florida.

Thanks so much,

Salem

I apologize Salem dear, just saw this. I do not know all, or really, any details of the cases, which I stated earlier when asked by another member. Yes it is MSM and I believe all are from Florida.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/article1221412.ece

"The Times analysis shows that more than 70 percent of the 130 cases involved a fatality.

In the majority of the cases, the person who plunged the knife or swung the bat or pulled the trigger did not face a trial.

In 50 of the cases, the person who used force was never charged with a crime. Another nine defendants were granted immunity by a judge, and nine cases were dismissed."
 
First of all, thank you so much for the map...

Doc was right, the 100 yds. Trayvon's father was talking about was from where the incident occurred to Trayvon's house.

<modsnip>

Credit to Lolamoon08 for the photo! The colored lines belong to Lola whose post can be found up-thread, when I find it again I will link.


Great observation……Does TMs father live anywhere on that map, in that gated community or across the street? I still confused on that, and lots of other things
 
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