GUILTY FL - Abraham Shakespeare, 42, lottery winner, Polk County, 7 April 2009 #8

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just catching up but they all still seem like scum to me. thats great pp called the detective right away, when she knew her *advertiser censored* could get in trouble. if it were for any other reason it would have been done long before. and im sure she didnt sit on that, so im sure shar knew as soon as she did if not before
 
Susan1 said:
If it is NOT in Discovery, I'm not sure, then, what "the mess" would pertain to. But if you heard PP actually state that "Deedee told her that Shar helped her clean up the mess" and especially if you know for a fact that PP actually said this BEFORE Dorice was arrested, and if by "the mess" you mean the murder, then I believe that you, or whoever the person who said she she said it to, should go to the police and report it.
If Dorice actually pointed the finger at Shar for "helping clean up the mess," it cannot be forgotten that she also stated that numerous other people actually killed Abraham, that she got the money legally, that she paid for the properties, and on and on it goes. Personally, I would not put any money on anything that Dorice said to be the truth.
Still, if someone heard PP say that and if "the mess" was referring to the murder, then they should have stepped forward to the police and reported it, in which case it would be part of the Discovery.
I believe that part of the Discovery was a lie detector test that cleared Shar of this murder. Shar gave back the house on St. Rt. 60, which has already been sold by the estate. He gave back the car. I hope he will, or has already, given back any other things that belonged to Abraham's estate. We don't get to see what is going on behind the scenes, but the estate seems to have a very good attorney and personal representative who are actively working to recover Abraham's assets for the estate.
I'd like to hear what PP would have to say about this.
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Pp told me that about the mess, but pp was saying the evidence cleaning was after the murder and dee told shar it was grease, you see as i undetstand it pp told the police herself, and imo she talked to shar, got his story, and maybe he did clean the mess without knowing a murder even happened, the police have been told that story , so imo the police know and whether it is significant, time wil tell......as far as giving back thing, imo that proves absolutly nothing....Maybe it was just a smart move.
 
Susan1 said:
.....PP must not have believed what Dorice was saying about Shar helping clean up any mess since she followed that up by saying he was on a road trip. I would have to guess that the way she would have known he was on a road trip when AS was killed is after Dorice and/or the police said the date when AS was killed, PP asked her son where he was and he told her he was on a road trip. I guess you can prove things like that with credit card receipts. When I go on a roadtrip and buy gas with my credit card, it tracks where I am. Cellphones can also track where a person is, where a call was made from. I would think if he was on a roadtrip, if he used a credit card or made a cellphone call, it would not be that hard to prove. Getting a ticket from the police far away from the scene of the crime could also help substantiate your whereabouts. Hotel receipts can as well. There are lots of ways to prove you are on a roadtrip and away from home.
.....Of course, when he was killed so long ago, it has to be hard to determine the exact time of death.
.....On the other hand, when Dorice wanted to have Abraham's body dug up and moved, what did she do? She made sure that the people living at the house were not there. She had them go out to dinner that night. So, if she were to follow that logic, if she planned to kill Abraham, it would make sense she would make sure no one was there to see her do it. She would do it when Shar was away so he would not know what she had done. I believe she had been planning his disappearance at least since she had made the video of him the previous month. So I believe she would have planned to have everyone away from the property when she murdered him.
.....If the police believed that Shar helped cover up that murder, I believe he would be behind bars now. I did find in Binder 1, pages 48-51, the lie detector test that Shar took and it did include any involvement in covering the murder up.
.....Quoting:
"R5: Were you involved in the disappearance of Abraham?
"Answer: No
"R7: Did you have any involvement in the disappearance of Abraham?
"Answer: No
"OPINION OF EXAMINER: In the opinion of the examiner of the polygraph test conducted, Mr. Krasniqi did not display reactions of a deceptive nature to the relevant questions on the polygraph test."
.....Dorice was able to fool an awful lot of people. Evidentally Shar was one of them according to his lie detector test. I'm not sure if he is the only one who took a lie detector to prove his innocence. Maybe the others did as well and I just have not found them. She also ruined the career of Troy Young. He goes to a hearing this coming Monday, March 7th, for his involvement with Dorice. She got her ex-husband, James, to dig the grave and then come back and bury Abraham. It is a long list of people involved, and according to them they had no idea she had killed Abraham. Although the press originally said there would be more arrests, the police have arrested no one else for the murder or the cover-up of the murder.
.....On to the property. Being more specific of the property in Gulf County, there appears to be only one property that he owns with an assessed value of $12,000. The physical address is on Smith Rd but it does not give a number. It appears to be next door to 5980 Smith Rd, a property with a trailer. It is .79 acres of vacant land. Is this the property you are referring to? If the estate can prove the money used to purchase it was illegally obtained from Abraham the estate lawyer may go after it if he is aware of it. You can always call him and make him aware of the property if you don't think he knows about it and if you are concerned about it. He seems to be doing a good job of going after everything else he can. The time period of the sale was right. It was purchased by shar with a warranty deed on 3/12/2009 for $18,000. Property value has gone down by $6,000 since then.
.....I haven't seen it yet, but I imagine that the estate lawyer will eventually go after Dorice for a civil judgement. I also imagine he can pretty easily win that case. So if by some miracle Dorice ever does get her book published and if by even a bigger miracle it actually makes money, it would be another source for the estate to get the money back that she stole.
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troy young ruined his own career, he being a cop knew right from wrong , it was ultimately his choice, so i disagree with that theory, because what I am saying is the truth, not an opinion.....
 
overwhelmed said:
The Lawyer called me and told me is is trying to get that property back from Shar.So that is in the works. I also have signed all the paper work he sent me for all the property in the LLC name they have all been signed and sent back to him.There was 9 total. I remember the arguement that DD and PP got into at the redhawk house over the clean up. I really thought PP was going to hit DD that day i did not stick around to hear any of it DD started out whispering so i took that as my time to leave i was inside when i heard PP scream at DD and it was that time that DD told PP that She told Shar that oil had been spilled in the paint ball office and she had asked him to fix the floor.PP did as soon as she got the chance she called the Detective and told him everything that DD had said to him.I believe it was the same day that they found A.S body..
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well did he sign the land back over in Gul county florida?
 
guitarman_fl said:
well did he sign the land back over in Gul county florida?
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When i spoke to Mr.Martin he had not ,The lawyer said he had even spoke to Shar's lawyer to get it back and so far he had not signed it over.He was upset that Shar had kept that land from him it was i believe from what he said someone from A.S family that let him know about the property..I was just sent 3 more papers to sign off on.Those have been singed and sent back.
 
Susan1 said:
I hope you are right. I read the news article and it says that she is trying to maintain she paid for the RedHawk property, which is really quite surprising given that I believe in the criminal indictment she admitted that she did not give Abaham any money for it because she thought he would use it to buy drugs. Given that Abraham has NO drug charges against him for drugs and anyone who knew him said he never used drugs, I can't believe that anyone will buy that excuse for one minute:
https://www2.myfloridacounty.com/ccm/do/personCaseSearch?county=53
Click new search and put in Abraham Shakespeare's name. No drug charges that I can see.
However, for the estate to be able to resell the property, they have to get the title and have clear title. The AMP, LLC owner stated here she is willing to voluntarily sign over any interests her company has in the property. My guess is that since Dorice still owns AMP,PEO then she is going to make them go to Court to get clear title. I would assume the Estate will have to file the claim for the property and she will have the right to come to Court to be heard as she is currently the owner of record. Gets her out of jail for a day, I guess. And she is an evil and greedy woman from all that she has done and said. I could be wrong, but I really don't see her doing the honorable thing now and just handing over to the Estate all that she stole from Abraham.
But I do hope you are right that they have not allowed this property to have the tax certificate for last year sold. It looks to me like the taxes are still due for last year, but I don't know where they list it if a tax certificate is outstanding on a property. Guess I'll have to call the tax office next Friday to find out more about how that works. As far as Dorice's outcome, I think it is very unfortunate they took the death penalty off the table. I would think it is warranted for what she has done and it would have been a bargaining tool to have her plead guilty to a life without parole sentence and save the tax payers the cost of a trial.
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If the tax certificate would have been sold, it would have shown a payment at the bottom of the screen on the tax page. Hopefully Guitarman is correct, and that the property is frozen for now.....BUT tax certificates at that high of a dollar amount don't typically sell. Least not from what I usually see. Hillsborough's tax records are easier to read (the neighboring county) and we did quite a bit of research on tax sales, due to the fact we were going to try to purchase some investment properties via tax sales. The higher the dollar amount, though, the more interest it pays the certificate holder....in Hillsborough a $5000.00 tax bill will get you 18%, which is a GREAT and GUARANTEED return on your money. That's why we were looking into it. Not that we have alot of extra cash laying around to do that though, either!! LOL
Usually, at least in Hillsborough, the tax sales lists were available a couple months before the actual sale.
As far as properties that the tax certificate doesn't sell, I'm not sure what happens. I'd think the county can repossess them, and sell them for the taxes if they go unpaid for 24 months or more. Not sure though. Also, due to the declining housing market, they are inundated with more properties than normal.
 
I think it was Susan who kept mentioning about 'more arrests to be made' and that more hadn't been made, etc.

My honest opinion about that, is that they are making deals with some of the others for turning state's evidence on DeeDee. That would be the only thing that would make sense, because it just seems there HAD to be more involved than we know about. I'd be SHOCKED if DeeDee acted completely on her own.

And Guitarman brings up a good point, about PP saying Shar was on a roadtrip when the killing occurred. That was PRIOR to the information about WHEN he was actually killed.....so to me, that pretty much says that PP knew about when he was killed. Maybe that's WHY Shar went on a trip, so he didn't have anything to do with it. DeeDee has a weird trait of wanting to protect the 'men' in her life (aside from the accusation that RJ did it) adamantly stating James & Shar both had nothing to do with any of it. Like, she'll do all sorts of crazy things, and we all know how skewed her thought process is ("If I tell you what happened, can I keep all my stuff??") but she adamantly protects the men she is/was associated with.

Also, Shar's lie detector test said specifically did he have anything to do with the disappearance of AS. Seems it could be a loophole, that if he knew about it AFTER the fact, he is still answering the question "Did you have anything to do with the disappearance of AS" correctly by saying no. THey didn't ASK anything else!!!!! I'm not sure. Maybe Joybell can clarify how a lie detector test works. Also, they're not always totally accurate anyway, so he may have been a lucky one!!!
 
tigergal71 said:
Susan, that link only pulled up the search screen. Can you tell me how it's listed in the records so I can pull it up myself?
Click to expand...

Oddly enough that is true if you click it once. But if you close the popup screen out and then click it again, it goes to the right page. It is under American Medical Professional, I beleve.
 
tigergal71 said:
I think it was Susan who kept mentioning about 'more arrests to be made' and that more hadn't been made, etc.

My honest opinion about that, is that they are making deals with some of the others for turning state's evidence on DeeDee. That would be the only thing that would make sense, because it just seems there HAD to be more involved than we know about. I'd be SHOCKED if DeeDee acted completely on her own.

And Guitarman brings up a good point, about PP saying Shar was on a roadtrip when the killing occurred. That was PRIOR to the information about WHEN he was actually killed.....so to me, that pretty much says that PP knew about when he was killed. Maybe that's WHY Shar went on a trip, so he didn't have anything to do with it. DeeDee has a weird trait of wanting to protect the 'men' in her life (aside from the accusation that RJ did it) adamantly stating James & Shar both had nothing to do with any of it. Like, she'll do all sorts of crazy things, and we all know how skewed her thought process is ("If I tell you what happened, can I keep all my stuff??") but she adamantly protects the men she is/was associated with.

Also, Shar's lie detector test said specifically did he have anything to do with the disappearance of AS. Seems it could be a loophole, that if he knew about it AFTER the fact, he is still answering the question "Did you have anything to do with the disappearance of AS" correctly by saying no. THey didn't ASK anything else!!!!! I'm not sure. Maybe Joybell can clarify how a lie detector test works. Also, they're not always totally accurate anyway, so he may have been a lucky one!!!
Click to expand...

It was in the media after Dorice was arrested that the police had said there were more arrests to come, and then there weren't. I would not think that given the mountain of evidence they have against Dorice, including her own statements, that the State would have to make deals with anyone other than the snake that called his mother and then went to work for the police after the fact and ended up getting the murder weapon from Dorice and the place Abraham was buried. I would also tend to believe that the police, when they questioned Shar, would have asked him where he was when Abraham was murdered and that is how he came up with the roadtrip on that date. I'm guessing the police had that information before the public did. But if he was really on a roadtrip, as I said before, there are plenty of ways to prove that-cellphone records, credit card receipts, witnesses, etc. The police evidentally either believe him or don't have evidence to prove otherwise.
If the police had enough evidence to prove that any of these people were involved in the murder or the coverup after the fact, I believe they would be in jail with Dorice or would have already been used as undercover to get more evidence as they did with the snake who I cannot remember his name for the life of me, hence, the snake.
But they have not arrested anyone else and other than the person they said was working for them, I have not seen them advertising any deals they have made with anyone. But after the investigation is over and the case is over, wouldn't that information, who they made deals with, become public or would it be forever sealed?
And even if the police do make deals with anyone, the victims can still file civil charges against whoever, I would think. Luckily, the children have an attorney working for the estate. It appears that there were quite a few people who profitted from Abraham's winnings. Dorice was not the only one who ended up with that money according to the places the records showing where it was going.
I would have read the "having to do with the disappearance of Abraham" to mean a coverup, but I guess it is open to interpretation.
 
This video around the half way mark shows DDM crying and professing her innocence to the reporter. She is claiming she doesn't belong in jail. It's a piece on the infamous currently residing in the Orient Jail. It was just a few days ago so I believe it is fairly recent footage of her demeanor for those that are interested. Just a few seconds but I found it worth posting.
http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/good_day/orient-jail-houses-the-most-infamous-032311
 
Susan1 said:
.....PP must not have believed what Dorice was saying about Shar helping clean up any mess since she followed that up by saying he was on a road trip. I would have to guess that the way she would have known he was on a road trip when AS was killed is after Dorice and/or the police said the date when AS was killed, PP asked her son where he was and he told her he was on a road trip. I guess you can prove things like that with credit card receipts. When I go on a roadtrip and buy gas with my credit card, it tracks where I am. Cellphones can also track where a person is, where a call was made from. I would think if he was on a roadtrip, if he used a credit card or made a cellphone call, it would not be that hard to prove. Getting a ticket from the police far away from the scene of the crime could also help substantiate your whereabouts. Hotel receipts can as well. There are lots of ways to prove you are on a roadtrip and away from home.
.....Of course, when he was killed so long ago, it has to be hard to determine the exact time of death.
.....On the other hand, when Dorice wanted to have Abraham's body dug up and moved, what did she do? She made sure that the people living at the house were not there. She had them go out to dinner that night. So, if she were to follow that logic, if she planned to kill Abraham, it would make sense she would make sure no one was there to see her do it. She would do it when Shar was away so he would not know what she had done. I believe she had been planning his disappearance at least since she had made the video of him the previous month. So I believe she would have planned to have everyone away from the property when she murdered him.
.....If the police believed that Shar helped cover up that murder, I believe he would be behind bars now. I did find in Binder 1, pages 48-51, the lie detector test that Shar took and it did include any involvement in covering the murder up.
.....Quoting:
"R5: Were you involved in the disappearance of Abraham?
"Answer: No
"R7: Did you have any involvement in the disappearance of Abraham?
"Answer: No
"OPINION OF EXAMINER: In the opinion of the examiner of the polygraph test conducted, Mr. Krasniqi did not display reactions of a deceptive nature to the relevant questions on the polygraph test."
.....Dorice was able to fool an awful lot of people. Evidentally Shar was one of them according to his lie detector test. I'm not sure if he is the only one who took a lie detector to prove his innocence. Maybe the others did as well and I just have not found them. She also ruined the career of Troy Young. He goes to a hearing this coming Monday, March 7th, for his involvement with Dorice. She got her ex-husband, James, to dig the grave and then come back and bury Abraham. It is a long list of people involved, and according to them they had no idea she had killed Abraham. Although the press originally said there would be more arrests, the police have arrested no one else for the murder or the cover-up of the murder.
.....On to the property. Being more specific of the property in Gulf County, there appears to be only one property that he owns with an assessed value of $12,000. The physical address is on Smith Rd but it does not give a number. It appears to be next door to 5980 Smith Rd, a property with a trailer. It is .79 acres of vacant land. Is this the property you are referring to? If the estate can prove the money used to purchase it was illegally obtained from Abraham the estate lawyer may go after it if he is aware of it. You can always call him and make him aware of the property if you don't think he knows about it and if you are concerned about it. He seems to be doing a good job of going after everything else he can. The time period of the sale was right. It was purchased by shar with a warranty deed on 3/12/2009 for $18,000. Property value has gone down by $6,000 since then.
.....I haven't seen it yet, but I imagine that the estate lawyer will eventually go after Dorice for a civil judgement. I also imagine he can pretty easily win that case. So if by some miracle Dorice ever does get her book published and if by even a bigger miracle it actually makes money, it would be another source for the estate to get the money back that she stole.
Click to expand...
well if i were the estate, i'd go for the land plus 6,000 bucks to make it right.
I can call him, you can call him, the whole owrld can call him, but I am sure he already knows.
 
overwhelmed said:
When i spoke to Mr.Martin he had not ,The lawyer said he had even spoke to Shar's lawyer to get it back and so far he had not signed it over.He was upset that Shar had kept that land from him it was i believe from what he said someone from A.S family that let him know about the property..I was just sent 3 more papers to sign off on.Those have been singed and sent back.
Click to expand...
wwelllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll then
 
guitarman_fl said:
well if i were the estate, i'd go for the land plus 6,000 bucks to make it right.
I can call him, you can call him, the whole owrld can call him, but I am sure he already knows.
Click to expand...

overwhelmed said:
The Lawyer called me and told me is is trying to get that property back from Shar.So that is in the works. I also have signed all the paper work he sent me for all the property in the LLC name they have all been signed and sent back to him.There was 9 total...
Click to expand...

Overwhelmed has told us above that the lawyer is evidentally already aware and attempting to get that property back from Shar.
 
justice is slow but it will come

and karma too - love that lady :D

why hasn't Shar turned that property over? does he think he has a legal claim on it? did he spend his own money on it? I have many questions ...
 
Dee Dee goes to court today. Hopefully there will be some information released or a trial date set.
 
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