FL FL - Austin Stephanos & Perry Cohen, both 14, Jupiter, 24 July 2015 - #1

[Davia18]

What hope would life jackets give you?

That they made it to land and removed the life jackets. I'm very ignorant to boating and everything that goes along with it.
I have only been on the lake and always do wear a life jacket but I know enough to know the lake is nothing like the sea.
It actually terrifies me.

 

[sonjay]

This is the most comon and cheap life jacket. Thousand (im guessin) get blown off boats. These do not have whistles and lights on them: whistles and lights are better to have....

That they made it to land and removed the life jackets.

What Hiandmighty said..... Those are type II PFDs. Not designed for rough water in open oceans. Not designed to keep your head above water. Not designed to turn an unconscious person face up. Not designed to keep you afloat in rough water for days.

http://paddling.about.com/od/safetyprecautions/tp/USCG_PFD_Specifications.htm
"Type II PFDs are intended for use in inland waters where there is a reasonable chance of a speedy rescue."

Those boys did not float that far wearing those Type II PFDs and then wash up on land and take them off.

(And even if somehow they did wash up and take the PFDs off, they would have been stupid to leave the PFDs behind. The bright orange would -- obviously -- help them get found even on land.)

Sadly, the boys are dead. I hope the parents can accept that and move out of the denial stage and into the grieving stage.

 

[tick_tock]

No clues needed. Bad decision. 19 ft boat 2 stroke engine. 65 mph winds. Capsize. 12 days no information. Coast Guard ended search last week.

Drowning. No bodies will be recovered. Just like all the other people who drown in the ocean: its a tale as old as time and for as long as humans have attempted to be on the water.

So by extension, you're telling me that if a single car crashes and its driver goes missing (and can't be found) that you wouldn't want the car inspected at any stage. I'm of the mind that it should be inspected when found. You're not writing to a FB vagrant or a wannabe Nancy Drew, an inspection should be the normal course of things. They inspect planes, they inspect cars.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I am soooo with you ATaste of Honey! I hadn't even read your post when I wrote mine (very similar to what you said). BTW, I've been following your posts about your brother who is a professional charter fisherman on a 72' Bertram. Holy Moly! That's huge. Our Manasquan Inlet in NJ is much like your Jupiter Inlet in Florida. Once you start the approach, there is no turning back. You are committed or your thrown against the rocks --- currents going every which way.

(We are originally from the Barnegat Light Inlet before moving to FL). Too bad about Bertram after Absolutely, Certifiable as a result of Ferretti.

....like you, no stranger to rough waters, :whine:

I just heard the family has closed the ******** account. I got an alert on my phone from the Palm Beach Post.

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

So by extension, you're telling me that if a single car crashes and its driver goes missing (and can't be found) that you wouldn't want the car inspected at any stage. I'm of the mind that it should be inspected when found. You're not writing to a FB vagrant or a wannabe Nancy Drew, an inspection should be the normal course of things. They inspect planes, they inspect cars.

Context is important.

If a single car is found wrapped around a light pole in the middle of the city, and the driver can't be found, yes, there should be a thorough investigation, including an examination of the car.

If, however, someone decides to drive up a mountain in a snowstorm, when everyone else is coming down from the mountain due to the storm, and later the car is found wrapped around a tree or at the bottom of a ravine with the driver nowhere to be found... certainly there should be a search, but a examination of the car would be rather pointless IMO.

In the first example, a variety of scenarios are possible. In the second, not so much.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[Hiandmighty]

M,

So by extension, you're telling me that if a single car crashes and its driver goes missing (and can't be found) that you wouldn't want the car inspected at any stage. I'm of the mind that it should be inspected when found. You're not writing to a FB vagrant or a wannabe Nancy Drew, an inspection should be the normal course of things. They inspect planes, they inspect cars.

I'm saying a coast guard diver inspected the boat. No clues.

What clues are you expecting a capsized in salt water boat to have? Salt water is one of the must corrosive liquids on Earth.

 

[jggordo]

Lifejackets found in search for 14 year old boys

'The company noted it could not immediately confirm the jackets belonged to the missing boaters, but DEEMI, a search group based in Maine, has sent search dogs to go up and down the Georgia coast in response to the find, an official told ABC News.'

'A Florida helicopter company found two orange life jackets off a sandbar in Savannah, Georgia, that could have been worn by missing teens Perry Cohen and Austin Stephanos.'

https://gma.yahoo.com/life-jackets-...g-14-old-152043836--abc-news-topstories.html#

 

[atthelake]

That they made it to land and removed the life jackets. I'm very ignorant to boating and everything that goes along with it.
I have only been on the lake and always do wear a life jacket but I know enough to know the lake is nothing like the sea.
It actually terrifies me.

:grouphug: that you truly believe that they made it to shore and think jackets are theirs.

Many folks on the web agree with you. Many here do not. Your opinion... And many of the folks here have tried to explain why that is not a possibility but many folks still do not agree.

To each his own ... I prefer the reality of the situation..

 

[Koa]

new update today http://cbs12.com/news/top-stories/s...ustin-stephanos-perry-cohen-28085.shtml?wap=0

That article lists the missing engine cover as newly painted cover (Yamaha silver grey). So it probably was a used engine and might have had work done on the cover. They are fiberglass and can crack if dropped or backing the boat into something while on a trailer. Since I was saying they latch on very securely, I'm a bit less likely to think the boys must have removed it. It is possible a latch was part or near a crack repair.

There is not many compartments on the boat. I'm pretty sure the diver searched through them.

 

[Hiandmighty]

It seems to me if those are their life jackets and they made it to shore (you all know I believe they died rather quickly during the storm), they seem smart enough to know to stay with the lifejackets.

Why leave it for clues when you can carry it with you and be spotted?

 

[Madeleine74]

The campaign raised $479,985 of the requested $475k, so about $5K over their goal.

 

[SeaSpur]

That article lists the missing engine cover as newly painted cover (Yamaha silver grey). So it probably was a used engine and might have had work done on the cover. They are fiberglass and can crack if dropped or backing the boat into something while on a trailer. Since I was saying they latch on very securely, I'm a bit less likely to think the boys must have removed it. It is possible a latch was part or near a crack repair.

There is not many compartments on the boat. I'm pretty sure the diver searched through them.

Those cowlings are pretty tough and don't break easily. Also, many people repaint their cowlings (scratches, UV damage, etc) so I don't know if drawing a conclusion of it being used (a repower) is very accurate. I have the same Yamaha motor on my 21' CC.

While they are latched very securely and won't just come off off on their own, they just need one latch undone and pulled on to uncover for inspection. I tend to think the missing cowling almost certainly spells a mechanical failure was suspected.

I think they had mechanical failure (maybe stalling out trying to battle seas) and with the low transom started to take on water...panicked during the process and accessed lifejackets (would have had plenty of time) before a few rough waves overtook the boat. After that is a scary thought.

 

[Elainera]

If the life jackets that were found were from the boat wouldn't this indicate that the boys did not wear them?
If they had worn them and died later wouldn't their bodies be still in them? Or can life jackets fall off?

 

[Hiandmighty]

I also think the boys took the engine cover off to work on it. This tells me the engine failed (probably from water over the transom).

let's speculate:

1) how long were they boating until the engine quit? Factors: major storm blew up over them. They were probably in the inlet and couldn't turn around. So there was a point of no return. They boated into choppy, chaotic situation, apparently knowing they "were f*Cked.

It is also possible at this point that there was too much movement and it was too dangerous to move around to get the life jackets out of the latched compartment, likely at the bow (front). The safest place would be at the center console.

2). Boat engine has now failed. At this point, they are already into survival mode. They immediately unlatch engine cover, one starts bailing, one working on battery and engine. Boat starts rocking.

3) terminal rocking and turning happens. At this point, I don't know if one was thrown out and other jumped in to save him, or put hand out and was pulled out, or if the boat rolled and them both out at the time of capsizing.

Its likely they drowned at this point. Strong high waves, chaotic seas, where inlet meets ocean, strong undertow, eddy, rip tides, large waves in quick succession. Rocks and jetties.

Really, no way to survive this.

 

[Koa]

Those cowlings are pretty tough and don't break easily. Also, many people repaint their cowlings (scratches, UV damage, etc) so I don't know if drawing a conclusion of it being used (a repower) is very accurate. I have the same Yamaha motor on my 21' CC.

While they are latched very securely and won't just come off off on their own, they just need one latch undone and pulled on to uncover for inspection. I tend to think the missing cowling almost certainly spells a mechanical failure was suspected.

I think they had mechanical failure (maybe stalling out trying to battle seas) and with the low transom started to take on water...panicked during the process and accessed lifejackets (would have had plenty of time) before a few rough waves overtook the boat. After that is a scary thought.

I just haven't seen that many fairly new engines with repainted engine covers. I had a 100hp commercial Evinude slide off my boat and hit the driveway and crack. Ever since then I put the covers on the ground or floor of boat when working on the engine.

Obviously if someone knows if the cover was repainted and the color, they probably have some knowledge of the condition of the engine. There was a casual attitude about safety gear that might also carry over to engine and running gear maintenance. I realize there's not a whole lot of maintenance required but it makes me wonder about all the little stuff... Plugs, fuel line connectors, battery, water seperator, last oil change, gear case oil, throttle/shift/steering cables etc. All stuff the grandfather should have been aware of before buying the boat or taking care of before giving the boat to his grandson. I hope it wasn't some sort of project boat the boys were working on.

It would have been nice to hear how the engine had low hours, everything had been checked over, new battery/batteries, electronics, best PDFs, added safety gear etc. But the info that appears seems to always point to just the opposite, IMO.

 

[Sika]

Thanks.
From your link:


A Sarasota helicopter company found two life jackets Tuesday near a sandbar off Savannah, Georgia.
Heli Aviation posted a picture on its Facebook page and said it was working to confirm a possible connection with the disappearance of Perry Cohen and Austin Stephanos.
There is no confirmation of the owners of the life jackets. Due to reports of the life jackets being found, a group called DEEMI out of Maine is sending a dog search team to coastal Georgia to aid in the search.
http://m.wpbf.com/news/missing-boys...F 25 News&utm_medium=FBPAGE&utm_source=Social

DEEMI has also done a visual scan of the area with an turboprop that has a dual-imaging camera. The dual imaging allows SAR to take visual images as well as perform infra-red scans, that can indicate heat patterns. This is helpful when looking looking for people, or analyzing types of hazards (fire).

They did an additional scan with a twin-engine jet offered by John Travolta (yes, that John Travolta). They collected about 10,000 still images that were being analyzed by volunteers.

Doc Bowie of DEEMI says they are stepping in because the family and the public still wants to search

There is a facebook page set up for volunteer beachwalkers, too.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/100354650317901/

 

[FindingTheMissing]

If the life jackets that were found were from the boat wouldn't this indicate that the boys did not wear them?
If they had worn them and died later wouldn't their bodies be still in them? Or can life jackets fall off?

IF they had put them on they would have fastened them to keep them on. If they came off of them on their own, meaning if the boys did not take them off, they would have been found still fastened. I'm trying to respond to this without being so graphic and still make sense, but it's hard. What I'm trying to say is there are many things that can happen to a person in the ocean who is floating in a life vest. If that person's body is no longer able to keep that vest on... KWIM?... it's going to be found still fastened. In the picture that was on a link upthread the vest that was shown was not fastened. I tend to think those vests could have blown out of any boat during the weather/rough seas.

 

[IndianSummer]

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/n...ng-teens-families-no-longer-taking-onl/nnDGJ/
And late Wednesday afternoon, a post on the Find Perry and Austin- SC facebook page indicated the search needed to focus on the shoreline between Beaufort, S.C. and Cape Hatteras, N.C. because of “new developments.”The post reads:
“Please bring your kayaks, paddle boards, small boats, ATVs or simply yourself to the shore for a day and walk the beaches, ride the trails, or make your way through shallow water. We are concerned that something might have happened to the boys after they might have swum to shore, so please look around between the waterline and the first road.”......
....It is not clear from the post the reason the families are concentrating their search on that area.

 

[Elainera]

IF they had put them on they would have fastened them to keep them on. If they came off of them on their own, meaning if the boys did not take them off, they would have been found still fastened. I'm trying to respond to this without being so graphic and still make sense, but it's hard. What I'm trying to say is there are many things that can happen to a person in the ocean who is floating in a life vest. If that person's body is no longer able to keep that vest on... KWIM?... it's going to be found still fastened. In the picture that was on a link upthread the vest that was shown was not fastened. I tend to think those vests could have blown out of any boat during the weather/rough seas.

Thank you. It makes sense.

 

[Elainera]

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/n...ng-teens-families-no-longer-taking-onl/nnDGJ/
And late Wednesday afternoon, a post on the Find Perry and Austin- SC facebook page indicated the search needed to focus on the shoreline between Beaufort, S.C. and Cape Hatteras, N.C. because of “new developments.”The post reads:
“Please bring your kayaks, paddle boards, small boats, ATVs or simply yourself to the shore for a day and walk the beaches, ride the trails, or make your way through shallow water. We are concerned that something might have happened to the boys after they might have swum to shore, so please look around between the waterline and the first road.”......
....It is not clear from the post the reason the families are concentrating their search on that area.

Is this in the vicinity where the vests were found?